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Thu Nov 13, 2014, 03:49 PM

Traders Are 'Scared As Hell' Of What's Happening In Venezuela

Source: Business Insider

Venezuelan investors are abandoning ship en masse after the government indicated that it would not take immediate measures to stop the country from sinking deeper into chaos.

"I am scared as hell," one Latin American bond trader said. "Default [is] likely within 12 months; the oil price collapse [is] just adding to a completely dysfunctional political and financial situation."

This week the Venezuelan government reiterated that it would not devalue its currency, giving it more bolivars for every dollar. It does not want to do that because the country already has the highest inflation rate in the world, at 64%. The official exchange rate is 6.3 bolivars per dollar, but the black-market rate sits at 113.62 bolivars to the dollar.

In the meantime, Venezuela is already suffering from food shortages. A lot of that food — along with other household goods — is imported, and without the cash from oil, the government will not be able to subsidize those imports, according to a report by the research firm Stratfor.




Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/traders-scared-as-hell-of-venezuela-2014-11



I can't see any outcome for Venezuela other than defaulting.

136 replies, 19004 views

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Reply Traders Are 'Scared As Hell' Of What's Happening In Venezuela (Original post)
FLPanhandle Nov 2014 OP
KamaAina Nov 2014 #1
RufusTFirefly Nov 2014 #2
KamaAina Nov 2014 #3
IkeRepublican Nov 2014 #4
MADem Nov 2014 #5
freshwest Nov 2014 #28
wordpix Nov 2014 #33
MADem Nov 2014 #43
Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2014 #65
MADem Nov 2014 #70
Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2014 #88
dixiegrrrrl Nov 2014 #46
EX500rider Nov 2014 #102
dixiegrrrrl Nov 2014 #109
Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2014 #92
christx30 Nov 2014 #105
Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2014 #113
EX500rider Nov 2014 #133
Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2014 #135
hack89 Nov 2014 #116
EX500rider Nov 2014 #134
Divernan Nov 2014 #6
jwirr Nov 2014 #10
7962 Nov 2014 #11
jwirr Nov 2014 #13
7962 Nov 2014 #14
jwirr Nov 2014 #15
7962 Nov 2014 #16
Darb Nov 2014 #125
quadrature Nov 2014 #27
jwirr Nov 2014 #7
Dreamer Tatum Nov 2014 #9
7962 Nov 2014 #12
Art_from_Ark Nov 2014 #25
7962 Nov 2014 #29
harun Nov 2014 #41
7962 Nov 2014 #44
harun Nov 2014 #53
GGJohn Nov 2014 #55
harun Nov 2014 #57
7962 Nov 2014 #60
Throd Nov 2014 #61
7962 Nov 2014 #62
delta17 Nov 2014 #89
harun Nov 2014 #115
GGJohn Nov 2014 #73
Judi Lynn Nov 2014 #59
EX500rider Nov 2014 #67
GGJohn Nov 2014 #74
Zorra Nov 2014 #104
EX500rider Nov 2014 #130
MADem Nov 2014 #71
dixiegrrrrl Nov 2014 #21
brett_jv Nov 2014 #23
hack89 Nov 2014 #32
jwirr Nov 2014 #35
hack89 Nov 2014 #38
jwirr Nov 2014 #40
hack89 Nov 2014 #42
Adrahil Nov 2014 #117
MADem Nov 2014 #45
dixiegrrrrl Nov 2014 #48
hack89 Nov 2014 #52
MADem Nov 2014 #54
jwirr Nov 2014 #34
RufusTFirefly Nov 2014 #8
ozone_man Nov 2014 #90
RufusTFirefly Nov 2014 #91
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #17
Throd Nov 2014 #18
hack89 Nov 2014 #19
brett_jv Nov 2014 #24
FLPanhandle Nov 2014 #30
hack89 Nov 2014 #31
Adrahil Nov 2014 #20
jwirr Nov 2014 #36
Nye Bevan Nov 2014 #96
daleo Nov 2014 #22
Art_from_Ark Nov 2014 #26
candelista Nov 2014 #37
hack89 Nov 2014 #39
Bragi Nov 2014 #47
7962 Nov 2014 #63
hughee99 Nov 2014 #131
Bragi Nov 2014 #136
MADem Nov 2014 #49
7962 Nov 2014 #64
MADem Nov 2014 #66
7962 Nov 2014 #110
GGJohn Nov 2014 #50
Dreamer Tatum Nov 2014 #56
Judi Lynn Nov 2014 #58
GGJohn Nov 2014 #75
Judi Lynn Nov 2014 #79
GGJohn Nov 2014 #84
EX500rider Nov 2014 #103
GGJohn Nov 2014 #107
GGJohn Nov 2014 #108
Adrahil Nov 2014 #132
FLPanhandle Nov 2014 #72
Adrahil Nov 2014 #118
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #126
Adrahil Nov 2014 #129
Depaysement Nov 2014 #51
hifiguy Nov 2014 #68
Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2014 #93
GGJohn Nov 2014 #98
Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2014 #101
TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2014 #119
GGJohn Nov 2014 #121
Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2014 #123
GGJohn Nov 2014 #124
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #127
Archae Nov 2014 #69
Judi Lynn Nov 2014 #76
GGJohn Nov 2014 #78
Judi Lynn Nov 2014 #81
GGJohn Nov 2014 #85
Archae Nov 2014 #80
Judi Lynn Nov 2014 #82
GGJohn Nov 2014 #86
Nye Bevan Nov 2014 #95
7962 Nov 2014 #111
randys1 Nov 2014 #77
hack89 Nov 2014 #83
Nye Bevan Nov 2014 #87
Comrade Grumpy Nov 2014 #94
happyslug Nov 2014 #99
bemildred Nov 2014 #97
Imajika Nov 2014 #100
7962 Nov 2014 #112
Exultant Democracy Nov 2014 #106
yurbud Nov 2014 #114
sendero Nov 2014 #120
Kaleva Nov 2014 #122
brooklynite Nov 2014 #128

Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 03:52 PM

1. VZ threads just aren't the same without EFerrari

 

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 03:55 PM

2. Fully agree!

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 03:56 PM

3. I have notified her via Facebook

 

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)


Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 04:19 PM

5. Army coup? Does Diosdado Cabello still have friends in uniform?

I can't see the opposition making any headway but I can see Chavez's "other little buddy" taking over "for the good of the nation."

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Response to MADem (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 05:11 AM

28. You talking about 'big hair' or whoever it was? I still keep scratching my head over this thing.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but VZ ought to have been self-sufficient. It's not like it's a desert or anything. That they should have any kind of food shortages... it does not compute.

They have sunshine, they can go solar. They have water, they have land. They have open access to the waters between here and there. I understand they may want things that they cannot manufacture by themselves. But those should not be essentials.

I keep going back to a couple of simple things.

First, perhaps the land is not being used right, and maybe they need to have the ownership freed up to give people more food. They should be a success agriculturally. That doesn't mean they have to have all the modern implements and chemicals. The USA was self-sufficient food wise at one time without those more modern things.

Second, an interesting OP was made here about how we ask the wrong question about the food supply. I'm not sure that I bought all the concepts in the piece, but it was a good starting point. What it said, was that the problem is not a shortage of food, but of the means to buy it. They gave the example of the tourist who visits a country where some people are starving adn others are doing well. They have the money to buy their food, the poor do not and starve to death. It is a human problem, not a problem of capacity, or so that piece claimed.

Third, even sans education, modernity and luxuries, the people should not be in desperate straits. In fact, I'm sure most of them are not. This may all be media spin regarding how bad it really is in VZ.

Fourth, all the problems are political, AFAIK. Not going in the right direction. Are the poor, the wealthy or the government so intransigent that they will never be able to solve basic life issues? Who does not want these things resolved?

Fifth, I don't think that the USA is the reason they are unstable. The forces that are causing this mess are all internal and IMO, have been going on for many, mnay years.

Last, I don't know that the heck the solution is. There is something way off in VZ.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 10:38 AM

33. "this may all be media spin"--since the VZ gov controls the media, it's not spin

I'm sure the gov doesn't want the world to know how bad its managers are.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 01:07 PM

43. "God Given" Hair!

They are sitting on some of the largest oil reserves IN THE WORLD. They're OPEC members--you don't get in that club without a "minimum!"

They should be wealthy. Not just "OK" but rich as Roosevelts. They should be the salsa-merengue-tango version of Saudi Arabia. They should be able to import food from all over South America--beef from Brazil and Argentina, fruits and veggies from Peru, Ecuador, etc., they shouldn't have ANY want--they have enough oil to pay for everything.

Why aren't they? They "buy love" from Cuba with Free Oil. They also bribe their neighbors with cheap oil so that they won't go against them at OAS meetings. When they aren't giving away their wealth, they let the profits from their oil industry migrate to the oligarchy (aka the Boligarchs) who spend it carelessly and cackle at anyone who challenges their corruption.

They borrow huge sums from China--billions--in exchange for oil futures--they're selling the stuff at ten cents a gallon, in essence. And they'll still have to pump oil for Beijing long after that money is spent.

They ask people to fix their industry infrastructure, then refuse to pay them and nationalize their assets--for this reason, no one wants to help them anymore, and won't unless they are paid upfront. No one likes a weaseler/chiseller, and that is Venezuela in a nutshell. It's also why their infrastructure is falling apart and they can't pump at anywhere near capacity.

They don't pay their bills. That's why no planes will fly there, because any money for tickets purchased in VZ has to be "processed" through the gov't at their "official" exchange rate -- which is a joke. You can live like a king on a dollar a day if you find the right money exchanger who will keep his mouth shut--and that's assuming you don't get killed because they have--not the worst, they will INSIST--but the THIRD worst crime rate in the world. They actually might have the worst crime rate, most crimes are NOT solved, and who knows how many just aren't reported...because really, what's the point?

They bribe the loyal poor with stupid shit--here's some electricity for your shack, here's a cheap cell phone, here's a dumb-ass job sweeping the street. Show up at the Maduro rally and cheer like hell, we'll give you a frozen chicken for your trouble! This might not seem like a big deal, but when the line to get into the supermarket stretches for a half mile or more, and you have to worry about getting robbed when you come out of the store with your ration of toothpaste, dishwashing liquid, toilet paper and arepa flour, and there's no meat to be had so forget about that, you can see what a hellish life it is.

This is not "spin." This is how it is. There is a massive diaspora going on and anyone who can get out of VZ, with options (i.e. a job, a way to support oneself) does it. Puerto Rico--which isn't doing so great, either--is thick with VZans, so's FL, metro DC and a host of other communities in USA. It's AWFUL. The joke is "Why buy toilet paper? It's cheaper to use the money instead." The place is failing and there's no damn reason for it, save corruption and a really, really stupid world view.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a coup enroute--and not by the opposition, from inside the power structure. Maduro, the Colombian incompetent, is way past his sell-by date and needs to go.

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Response to MADem (Reply #43)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 05:07 PM

65. MADem - did you live in VZ at one time?

 

I'm amazed at the on-the-ground knowledge you seem to have.

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Response to Elmer S. E. Dump (Reply #65)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 05:52 PM

70. My grandfather did.

I passed through there many years ago. It's a beautiful country with lots of great natural beauty, but that doesn't do anyone any good if you take your life into your hands travelling there. The potential for being a crime victim is enormous there, the murder rate is out of sight.

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Response to MADem (Reply #70)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 07:26 PM

88. I marked it off my vacation list. Thanks!

 

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Response to freshwest (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 01:21 PM

46. About that food supply thing..

I can think of examples of plentiful food being in the control of venal managers..India, for one, has had this problem for ages, where grain supplies are being withheld for more money.
And of people starving because conditions outside of their control have destroyed the food supply....either by droughts/floods, or by cruel political practices, ie: China's Mao created famine by destroying land and markets.

There are countries which have chosen to sell their food via external markets rather than make it available to the general population.

the issue with VZ seems to be a matter of politics, and of foreign control over resources.
The USA gov'ts have invaded damn near every So. American country in order to control resources down there,
so scratch the surface deep enough and you will find we were involved in what is happening, to some degree.

A more immediate concern is what you said: " The USA was self-sufficient food wise at one time....."

I am very concerned that our country has chosen to sell off or export or destroy the resources we need to be more self sufficient.




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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #46)

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 01:32 PM

102. "The USA gov'ts have invaded damn near every So. American country"

Actually i can't think of any South American countries the US has invaded.

Central America and the Caribbean yes, but not South America. (which is everything south of Panama)

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #102)

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 04:28 PM

109. You are correct.....i meant to say....

The USA gov' has invaded/intervened in damn near every So. American country.
and could have added as recently as 2002 in Venezuela.
The Guardian has a good story on that:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/apr/21/usa.venezuela

and Wiki has a list of US "interventions"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions

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Response to freshwest (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 09:52 PM

92. I've seen this movie before

What food production there is is all in private hands, as are the stores.

I smell a capital strike.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #92)

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 03:10 PM

105. And if there is a capital strike,

who can really blame them? You have a government telling everyone that people with money are evil. You have that government siezing people's property right and left. At some point I would do everything I could to move my money off shore (myself, if I could) to keep it from being stolen.
And a capital strike is basically saying "You need us more than we need you. Change your policies to be more fair to us, and we'll start investing. Otherwise, good luck."

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Response to christx30 (Reply #105)

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 06:01 PM

113. How much do you know about the northern South American countries?

They needed to be shaken up. They have had income inequality worse than ours for hundreds of years, with the European-descended people blatantly lording it over the people of Indian, African, and mixed descent.

Have you ever seen the movie "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised"? I recommend it, even if you think it's "Marxist propaganda."

The filmmakers did not know the coup was going to take place when they went to Venezuela, and they went around filming reactions to Chavez from various types of people. They filmed a group of wealthy people who essentially complained that Chavez had made their servants uppity. As I remarked to another DUer who happened to be at the screening, "Did you ever see such a bunch of country club Republicans in your life?"

I doubt that the Venezuelan government is telling the poor that "people with money are evil." They've already figured out for themselves that people with money (there and sometimes here) think of themselves as a better breed of human being and consider it their right to treat the poor like dirt. Remember: the poorer Latin American countries have long lived in a "libertarian paradise" of no restrictions on business or social safety net. Many of the wealthy there ARE evil.

The elites of such countries are like fundamentalist Christians claiming "persecution" when they don't get to run things.

You must be reading the National Review or the Wall Street Journal or something like that if you think a capital strike is anything except the equivalent of holding your breath till you turn blue. You sound like the American oligarchs saying that can't invest in America because of "uncertainty."

Well, I've been self-employed for twenty-one years, so I know that business is one "uncertainty" after other. It's a bullshit excuse by people who are so accustomed to making scads of money all the time that the thought of ANY reduction in their net worth infuriates them.

By the way, when the unsuccessful coup occurred in 2002--with the plotters "restoring democracy" by arresting the legally elected president, dissolving the national legislature, and abolishing the supreme court--the Bush administration, alone of all the Western nations, practically fell over its own feet to grant diplomatic recognition the illegal action.

Is Maduro the sharpest tool in the drawer? No, but the wealthy of Venezuela are REALLY poor sports and have been trying--with U.S. encouragement--to undermine the legal, internationally recognized government of their country ever since a dark-skinned man (Chavez) had the gall to be elected president.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #113)

Wed Nov 19, 2014, 02:45 PM

133. "since a dark-skinned man (Chavez) had the gall to be elected president" ?

What makes you think he was "dark skinned"? Or that anybody cared about his skin color?



And the US does has lots of dealing with "dark skinned" politicians....you have heard of Africa, right?

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #133)

Wed Nov 19, 2014, 06:10 PM

135. Duh, I know that the U.S. deals with dark-skinned politicians

Reading comprehension!

I was referring to the racial attitudes of the European-descended elites IN VENEZUELA. And in fact, Chavez was the first president of Venezuela to not be of pure European descent.

Gee, I wonder if there are any other countries where some people object to having a mixed-race president.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #92)

Mon Nov 17, 2014, 03:48 PM

116. Government currency laws are the problem

That and declining oil production in a time of falling oil prices.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #116)

Wed Nov 19, 2014, 02:47 PM

134. And the price controls...

If food and fuel can sell for twice as much across the border smuggling will happen for certain.

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 04:23 PM

6. Saudi Arabia/OPEC deflating oil price to compete with natural gas industry(fracking)

This is, in part, due to a global economic shift. Oil makes up 95% of Venezuela's exports, and the commodity has gotten absolutely crushed in the past month — down 28%. Some accuse Saudi Arabia of keeping the price low to compete with the world's burgeoning natural gas industry — an allegation the Kingdom and OPEC have categorically denied.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/traders-scared-as-hell-of-venezuela-2014-11#ixzz3Iytzfgu7

The Keystone Pipeline will exacerbate the situation as it ships Bakken crude to New Orleans to be processed and sold abroad. And what benefits to the U.S.?

As far as new jobs go, the State Department estimates the operation of the pipeline will only create 35 permanent, full-time jobs and 15 temporary contractors. The full-time workers would be "required for annual operations, including routine inspections, maintenance and repair." Some would work in a Nebraska field office.

The lack of many full-time positions makes sense, given that the project is to build a pipeline so that tar sands can travel without the need of rail cars or ships. The State Department figures construction would require around 10,400 seasonal workers for stretches that would last either four or eight months. This works out to 3,900 "average annual" jobs over one year of construction, or 1,950 jobs each year if the project takes two years to finish. Construction work would be spread over four states, Montana, South Dakota, Nebraska and Kansas, though most workers would be specialized and need to be brought in from outside those states, the report notes.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/nov/11/anna-kooiman/fox-news-host-keystone-pipeline-would-create-tens-/

So we'd trade off invaluable, irreplaceable natural resources in exchange for 35 permanent, full-time jobs and 15 temporary contractors - oh and of course gifting Frackers and their one percent owners with vastly increased profits.

The Senate Dems are cashing in on their last hurrah before losing the majority by calling up this legislation - while they still have the power to trigger lobbyists' donations. Once the Republicans have the majorities in both chambers, the lobbyists will be few and far between for Dem. politicians.

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Response to Divernan (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 04:43 PM

10. That stuff about jobs from the pipeline is a bunch of malarky. Someone built a pipeling through our

neighborhood several years ago and there were enough jobs to notice that there were a lot of people from out of the area living here for a bit. When the pipeline was done they all disappeared and the only jobs I have seen since is when there was a leak in the coldest time of the winter they were back for about a month. Otherwise someone checks on the pumps about once a month.

From the cars parked at the job sight I would say that there were no more than 50 workers in all.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 05:05 PM

11. So what would be the difference with any other building project?

 

A lot of people will build a bridge, highway, skyscraper, etc. and once the project is over they move on. But they have good jobs for the year/years it takes to DO it. The pipeline is no different; it will employ lots of people until its complete. But for THAT period of time, a lot of people will have jobs. I have friends in engineering who travel quite a bit doing different projects. They make good money, but the work only lasts 6-8 months. Then they move on to the next job.
The oil isnt going away, its gonna be shipped one way or another. Might as well get work out of it.

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Response to 7962 (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 05:54 PM

13. The difference is that leak I mentioned. Those other projects do not threaten our natural resources.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 05:58 PM

14. Well, we've already seen railcars spilling or exploding. Tankers wouldnt be much safer.

 

I'd rather it be in a pipeline built with todays technology. Like I said, one way or another, its gonna come through the country at some point. MAybe make approval conditional on a specific type of construction. I remember when they started double hulled shipping tankers. maybe a quadruple hulled pipe? I'm NOT an engineer, but I bet theres is a way to build a fairly safe pipeline without breaking the bank

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Response to 7962 (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 06:03 PM

15. Fairly safe is not good enough over the aquifer. Why don't they go around the aquifer? If they go

west of it they have a lot of desert instead of fresh water.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 06:09 PM

16. sounds like a good idea, so maybe someone should present a bill specifying that

 

Or the president could come out and say "you know, i could support a pipeline if we did it THIS way". Then the GOP would look bad again, because most of the public would say "well, that sounds fair, why cant we build it THAT way?"
And actually, that idea would go for a lotof things. If a republican said, well here's a raise in the minimum wage X cents a yr for 5 years. Or indexed to inflation. Whatever. It would be hard for Dems to come out against it, because its a raise, even if its not as much as they'd like.

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Response to 7962 (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 18, 2014, 10:35 AM

125. No, we might as well tell the Canadian fools to

 

go fuck themselves and try another route. Oil prices will affect this fool-hardy venture. Maybe if the US doesn't play along the Canadians will come to their senses and not put the nail in the climate change coffin.

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Response to Divernan (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 04:52 AM

27. KSA has cut oil output. what has VZ done? ...nt

 

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 04:29 PM

7. Okay so what is going on here in laymens terms? I have read "The Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klein

but wonder if this even has anything to do with her books revelations? What is the USA doing in Venezuela lately? There's oil so I cannot believe we are not involved in some way.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 04:37 PM

9. In layman's terms: Chavez and Maduro fucked up VZ. nt

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 05:06 PM

12. Yes, but the CIA/USA will be blamed even by many right here on DU!

 

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Response to 7962 (Reply #12)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 04:20 AM

25. Well, bu$h certainly didn't help things

when his administration immediately pledged its support to the junta that overthrew Chavez, only to be rebuffed when Chavez came back into power a couple of days later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 08:41 AM

29. That was a LONG time ago and has little bearing on the current farce.

 

Of course, Maduro would drag that out of the past as an excuse just as he blames Obama as much or more than Bush!
And even though it makes me throw up a little in my mouth, I wonder what shape VZ would be in had that coup been a success? I doubt they'd be worse off than now.

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Response to 7962 (Reply #12)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 12:46 PM

41. There is nothing wrong in Venezuela.

Capitalist pig.

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Response to harun (Reply #41)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 01:14 PM

44. You forgot the sarcasm thingy. Some folks might actually think you're SERIOUS!

 

Even the poorest countries in Africa has something to wipe their rear with!

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Response to 7962 (Reply #44)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 02:38 PM

53. I am serious

It is all made up by the Corporate media as part of their zero tolerance of any system other than total submission to neo-liberal capitalism.

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Response to harun (Reply #53)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 02:41 PM

55. I'm quite sure the citizens of VN would call your assertation bullshit.

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Response to harun (Reply #57)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 04:51 PM

60. Stop it! I cant stop laughing! "Viva la Revolution" & pass the leaves! HAHAHAAHA!

 

But then, maybe you really DO believe the hogwash that comes from the VZ government, since your icon is that mythical leader Ernesto Lynch.
Regardless, the Venezuelan "Revolution" will be over in the next 10 yrs. They've sunk so low in the first 15 it would be hard to survive another 10 of the same poverty!!
It'd be nice if they had a leader who actually BELIEVED in the freedom of the people.

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Response to 7962 (Reply #60)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 04:53 PM

61. Ideology trumps everything. Let them eat speeches.

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Response to Throd (Reply #61)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 04:54 PM

62. Now THATS a darn good saying. I'm gonna remember that. Thanks.

 

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Response to 7962 (Reply #60)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 08:13 PM

89. I think you need some re-education, Comrade.

Through labor, of course.

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Response to delta17 (Reply #89)

Mon Nov 17, 2014, 02:15 PM

115. Looks like you've had some education yourself.

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Response to harun (Reply #57)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:06 PM

73. Stop it,

Yer killing me with laughter.

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Response to harun (Reply #53)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 04:32 PM

59. And you are right. We all know it. The sociopaths among us try to keep the truth buried

by their load of feverish, non-stop hate-driven misinformation in their effort to misdirect citizens' attention.

Why don't we all give up and just get back to shopping? That's what Dubya would want.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #59)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 05:20 PM

67. Yes some do try to keep the truth buried..

Last edited Sat Nov 15, 2014, 05:57 PM - Edit history (1)

...the whole 60%+ inflation....scarcity of consumer goods...one of the highest murder rates in the world....the brain drain and capital flight...the violent suppression of protests..the mismanagement and corruption...the govt control of the media...etc, ad nauseum.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #59)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:10 PM

74. God, you too?

Yer both killing me because I'm laughing so hard.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #59)

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 02:56 PM

104. Yes.

The global power of the financial centers is so great, that they can afford not to worry about the political tendency of those who hold power in a nation, if the economic program (in other words, the role that nation has in the global economic megaprogram) remains unaltered. The financial disciplines impose themselves upon the different colors of the world political spectrum in regards to the government of any nation. The great world power can tolerate a leftist government in any part of the world, as long as the government does not take measures that go against the needs of the world financial centers. But in no way will it tolerate that an alternative economic, political and social organization consolidate. For the megapolitics, the national politics are dwarfed and submit to the dictates of the financial centers. It will be this way until the dwarfs rebel . .


http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/mexico/ezln/1997/jigsaw.html

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #59)

Tue Nov 18, 2014, 04:30 PM

130. So if you don't think Venezuela is some kind of paradise you're a "sociopath"? Really?

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Response to harun (Reply #41)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 05:54 PM

71. Who are you calling a "capitalist pig?" nt

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Response to jwirr (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 10:57 PM

21. Look for the IMF to be flying in soon as the dust settles

where it will offer whichever Gov't is in power huge loans, in return for certain .....considerations.
Said considerations have been austerity for the citizens, privatization for whichever international companies want to buy.
True to form.
Ask Spain and Italy and Ireland and Greece and etc.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #21)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 04:05 AM

23. This, exactly ...

Given the available hydrocarbon resources, I'm CERTAIN that this little debacle is nothing that some IMF-imposed 'austerity' and 'privatization' cannot 'solve' in short order ..

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #21)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 10:28 AM

32. Austerity can't be any worse then it is right now

they have shortages of basic necessities like food, medicines and electricity. They also have a skyrocketing crime rate.

Even if the IMF doesn't step in, VZ is in for a rough time - they are too dependent on oil revenue which is coming to head now that oil prices are falling. Add in falling oil production due to decrepit infrastructure and a shortage of foreign reserves to import goods and they are in a true mess.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #32)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 11:51 AM

35. Shortages are something you can do something about. Those loans from the IMF make your country

and your people into slaves. The shortages will continue while you use the resources of your nation to provide exports to the developed world to pay the loans off. All you have to do is look at the colonialization of Africa to see that. Many of them starve and go without healthcare in order to grow/produce products like peanuts that are shipped to America. And the peanuts are grown on land they used to live on and use to provide their own foods.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #35)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 12:36 PM

38. The government is spending a lot more money than it brings in

so regardless of whether the IMF steps in, VZ will have to cut government spending. It is not complicated.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #38)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 12:41 PM

40. You are right that neither way is going to make much difference. However we have seen the IMF in

action all over the world and it is not working. Austerity does not work. I only makes things worse for the people.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #40)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 01:06 PM

42. I use austerity in its generic sense

because trust me, the people of VZ will experience austerity and yes, it will be worse for them.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #35)

Mon Nov 17, 2014, 08:36 PM

117. Well...

 

... You certainly can't do anything about shortages if you try to force companies to sell goods for way less than their market value, and even production costs. This simplistic approach to socialism cannot succeed.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #32)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 01:16 PM

45. They mortgaged their future to China, too. They owe China tens and tens of BILLIONS....

...and they've promised to pay it off in oil. They've squandered all the money they got from China on ... shit. They've nothing to show for it.

When the paint is peeling on the presidential palace, you know that no one gives a shit anymore.

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Response to MADem (Reply #45)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 01:31 PM

48. WE owe China tens and tens of BILLIONS....

and We've squandered all the money we got from China on ... shit. Have nothing to show for it, too.
Well, except for enriching the 1% who have cleverly moved the money offshore.
VZ, here we come.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #48)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 02:27 PM

52. We can still pay our bills and meet our obligations

VZ can't. They can't even provide basic essentials like food, medicine and electricity.

Our economy is growing. Theirs is shutting down.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #48)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 02:38 PM

54. We aren't giving away OIL to them. Maduro signed a deal with them to pay them in cheap OIL.

We gave them paper, promissory notes, and that's ALL we gave them. We traded them paper for crap, in essence. We kept their people working, and we played with their plastic shit. It's not the same dynamic at all. Maduro has given away the store--the oil that is the engine of their economy.

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Increasingly-Desperate-Venezuela-Makes-Oil-for-Cash-Deal-With-China.html

I suppose you equate standing in line waiting for the "Apple store" to open to sell their new version of shit the same as .... this?

\


I had an economics professor (who was with the IMF for a time) who used to joke that if you needed more money, you just printed more. It's a simplistic solution, and it can work if someone is trying to gouge you, but Maduro has taken it sixty steps too far--which is why inflation in VZ is at 63 percent.

There's no excuse for the mismanagement in VZ. It wasn't great when Chavez was in fair health and running the show, but it wasn't getting worse. Under Maduro, the nation's birthright has been squandered. They are now in extremis.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #21)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 11:46 AM

34. Okay now I see the connection. Let them fight it out - don't really care who wins as long as you

can buy them off and take over the country and control the oil. Sounds familiar.

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 04:29 PM

8. Interesting that some of the damning evidence comes from Stratfor

WikiLeaks describes Stratfor as “a company that fronts as an intelligence publisher, but provides confidential intelligence services to large corporations, such as Bhopal's Dow Chemical Co., Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and government agencies, including the US Department of Homeland Security, the US Marines and the US Defense Intelligence Agency”.

“The emails”, WikiLeaks goes on to explain, “show Stratfor's web of informers, pay-off structure, payment laundering techniques and psychological methods”.


GreenLeft: WikiLeaks reveals imperialist plots against Venezuela

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 08:45 PM

90. Very interesting

but not that surprising. We are and have been waging a covert war against Venezuela for a long time. Bush tried an unsuccessful coup. And the Dems have their Endowment for Democracy, which is a more subtle front for CIA actions. It's surprising they've lasted this long.

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Response to ozone_man (Reply #90)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 08:53 PM

91. Yes. What's sad is that our propaganda frequently becomes self-fulfilling

We work hard enough at destabilizing an upstart country and it ultimately begins to resemble the fiction we created to discredit it.

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 07:11 PM

17. Capitalists are still bitter over Chavez, eh?

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 07:17 PM

18. It's the Venezuelans who should be bitter.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 07:55 PM

19. Why?

They get all the oil they want from VZ along with a socialist economy imploding from mismanagement. I think the "capitalists" are very happy.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #19)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 04:16 AM

24. Of course, it's been 'mismanaged' ... I mean really, how ELSE could a 'Leftist' system be?

And no DOUBT 'the Capitalists' have in NO WAY WHATSOEVER conspired to attempt to assure a Leftist Latin American government, hostile to the IMF and the USA ... has crumbled.

Of course, the problem HAS to simply be 'mismanagement' ... of course along with the evils of Leftist/Socialism in general ... that are the causative factors in the problems there.

NO way it could be anything else. Not with the United State's (and it's business interests) well-known, and century-old 'Hands Off' policy when it comes to Central/South America and it's resources ... especially when it comes to Left-leaning countries!

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Response to brett_jv (Reply #24)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 09:38 AM

30. Frankly, I don't think the US cares one iota about Venezuela

We don't need their oil.

Their "hostility" is meaningless to us.

Every action they take has far worse consequences than even the best CIA pipe dream.

You over-estimate Venezuela and how much the Obama cares about them.

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Response to brett_jv (Reply #24)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 10:11 AM

31. Actually socialism and mismanagement do not go hand in hand

there have been well managed socialist countries. VZ is not one of them.

Look no further than their currency laws that have created a shortage of dollars and wreck the economy.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 10:48 PM

20. I'd say that empty shelves and 60+% inflation....

 

... is where the anger is coming from.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 11:54 AM

36. Absolutely. I doubt that any ideology is needed to produce anger under those situations.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 11:19 PM

96. Venezuela has certainly been an enlightening experiment in non-capitalism (nt)

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:25 PM

22. A frightened bond trader

Where have I heard that beforehand? Oh, yeah, the U.S. was going over a cliff this time last year, according to frightened bond traders.

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Response to daleo (Reply #22)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 04:27 AM

26. Frightened bond traders ROCK

the boat

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 12:33 PM

37. Most of the posts in this thread read like something from FreeRepublic.

 

Are you people sure you are on the right site?

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Response to candelista (Reply #37)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 12:38 PM

39. Pointing out that VZ is poorly managed and has wrecked its economy

is not a RW position - it is the truth. Are you going to argue that things are going well? Or do you belong in the "its a CIA plot" camp?

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Response to candelista (Reply #37)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 01:28 PM

47. We have a lot of low-information posters here

I find that DU's low-information crowd is often most visible in threads about complex international matters.

I've seen strong opinions expressed here of late on the Middle East, on ISIL, on Russia, etc. that shows quite limited understanding of what they're on about.

I for one am not alarmed by this, as this offers an opportunity for better-informed posters to inform posters and readers about how things are often not quite so black-and-white.

I confess I don't often do my part in this light-shedding, but I see others who do so, and I commend them for it.

I know that on some topics where I'm pretty low-information myself, that I learn a great deal here from people who really know what they are posting about. Boards like this provide value when that happens.

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Response to Bragi (Reply #47)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 04:58 PM

63. Thank GOD we have you here to save us from ourselves!

 

The facts on the ground in VZ speak for themselves. 15 years of failure and poverty along with another corrupt government.

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Response to Bragi (Reply #47)

Tue Nov 18, 2014, 09:00 PM

131. If you could, please point me to the information that will help me understand how VZ doesn't have

a serious economic issue or at least how it has nothing to do with their own policies. I hate being a "low information poster" so please, educate me.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #131)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 03:02 PM

136. Thanks, but I'll pass on that nt

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Response to candelista (Reply #37)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 01:59 PM

49. Oh, please. We're supposed to "support" this kind of shit? Get real.

"You people?" Some of us have heard THAT before....

Maduro and Chavez FUCKED the people of VZ by keeping them down and giving away THEIR birthright to Cuba. Are you sure YOU'RE on the right site? You think it's "OK" to ration basic goods while the Boligarchs live high off the hog? Would you stand in a line like this in an ostensibly wealthy nation?





Good grief, what nerve, to call people rightwingers because they think that people who live in a country ought to enjoy the fruits of it, not let their leaders fart through silk while they spend the money on themselves and their "good friends" who fawn over them from a repressive island in the Caribbean...

I guess you think the government censorship of the VZ media and internet is "OK" too--and the government murder of students during the demonstrations was just hunky dory as well?

And you really think this kind of nonsense is helpful? Here, read-LEARN:

The crackdown is tricky for Maduro. In Petare and elsewhere, it risks alienating some of the poor Venezuelans who had long been loyal to Maduro’s predecessor, the late Hugo Chávez, but are increasingly unhappy with his understudy.

Maduro ya se maduró ,” quipped vendor Maribel Nieble, with a play on the president’s last name that meant “Maduro has turned rotten.”

She had a sorry-looking pile of bananas on her stand, but it was really just a facade. Hidden underneath in a dirty fruit crate were several illicit bottles of Downy-brand laundry detergent and cooking oil. When a bus pulled up and Nieble didn’t see any troops, she quickly set out her wares, concealing them again once the crowds thinned.
“I feel like a drug dealer,” she said.

In stores, the detergent’s price was capped at the equivalent of about 60 cents, if using the government’s highest official exchange rate of 50 bolivars per dollar. Nieble was selling her Downy for twice that.

“I have six kids and two grandchildren,” she said. “I’m just trying to survive.”


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/with-goods-scarce-in-caracass-stores-street-sales-boom-and-officials-glower/2014/11/13/95b79f52-87da-442b-b7b3-cb0989903dd7_story.html

Talk about missing the point...


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Response to MADem (Reply #49)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 04:59 PM

64. Well, I tried to say it nicely, but DAMN that was well done!! nt

 

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Response to 7962 (Reply #64)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 05:07 PM

66. Thank you.

I feel terribly for the people of VZ, they really should be doing so much better than they are doing. VZ should be the jewel of South America with all that oil they've been sitting on for years--instead, they're a mess.

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Response to MADem (Reply #66)

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 05:44 PM

110. Looks like you scared them all off. No replies. But then, what could they SAY? nt

 

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Response to candelista (Reply #37)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 02:16 PM

50. Pointing out the truth about VN is a RW talking point?

Are you sure you're on the right site?

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Response to candelista (Reply #37)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 02:47 PM

56. I think there should be a 5000 post minimum before someone can challenge another's presence. nt

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Response to candelista (Reply #37)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 04:26 PM

58. It's been that way too long. Sad to read the #### storm from the cluster of winger trolls every time

there's a thread on Latin America.

Anyone who's determined to find the truth, after starting to suspect something seems a little creepy, and strange about the right-wing gibberish should be encouraged to take heart, and start researching whenever and wherever possible for the real information which gets obscured in the ugly fog created by people who are at complete odds with democracy who dominate so many attempted exchanges here.

Only personal effort can take you in the direction of the truth. Lies come at you constantly for free, unfortunately.

In time, what's right for ALL human beings will come, and replace the orgy of self-indulgence at the expense of the many by the most aggressively greedy and treacherous.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #58)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:16 PM

75. Yeah, we're all winger trolls because we like to tell the truth about mismanagement and corruption

in the VN. Govt.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #75)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:20 PM

79. You "like to tell the truth about mismanagement and corruption in the VN. Govt." Interesting.

The troll cluster here passes on, with great heat, what the oddly crafted right-wing line is.

Much better spewed at Free Republic, clearly.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #79)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:35 PM

84. Stop it, yer killing me.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #79)

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 01:43 PM

103. "The troll cluster here passes on, with great heat, what the oddly crafted right-wing line"

Last edited Sat Nov 15, 2014, 03:21 PM - Edit history (1)

So which part is a lie Judi?

Over 60% inflation, is that a lie?
Shortage of basic necessities, is that a lie?
2nd highest murder rate in the America's?
Brain drain so bad you have to bring in Cuban doctors cause most the local ones fled the country?
Falling oil production due to mismanagement and corruption?
Failing electrical infrastructure?
Violent suppression of protests?
Arresting and jailing of opposition leaders?

Please enlighten us.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #103)

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 03:46 PM

107. Truth is inconvenient isn't it.

I wouldn't expect a coherent reply, except to post more articles from the 50's, 60's and 70's that she thinks are relevant to today's situation in VN.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #79)

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 03:49 PM

108. So is this the way it works, anyone who disagrees with you on the corruption in

the VN govt is a troll and belongs over at FR?

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #79)

Wed Nov 19, 2014, 08:50 AM

132. You know it's possible to like baseball and hate th Yankees

 

Likewise, it possible to favor populist economics and recognize an incompetent authoritarian in Maduro.

The man thinks he can control the economy by ordering price levels. That's beyond idiotic.

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Response to candelista (Reply #37)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:03 PM

72. Avoiding or denying uncomfortable truths is a FreeRepublic trait

Sounds like you'd fit right in.

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Response to candelista (Reply #37)

Mon Nov 17, 2014, 08:44 PM

118. OFFS....

 

... One can support populist economics and even socialism while recognizing inept asshats. It doesn't do the progressive movement any good at all to support obviously incompetent leadership, regardless of support for the underlying ideology.

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Response to candelista (Reply #37)

Tue Nov 18, 2014, 01:33 PM

126. Even "liberals" are brainwashed to hate genuine Leftism.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #126)

Tue Nov 18, 2014, 03:56 PM

129. NO. You are mistaken.

 

What we see in Venezuela is the WORST kind of an attempt at socialism. You cannot mandate prices at unrealistic levels and artificially try to control the exchange rate of the currency at unsupportable levels. That is ASKING for economic trouble.

It is a preposterous position to say that you must support an incompetent and autocratic "leftist" merely because you agree with the underlying ideology.

I can, for example, love baseball while hating a particular player because he sucks.

You can be a leftist and think the Chavistas are hopelessly out of their depth, and alarmingly autocratic.

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 02:24 PM

51. The only scared trader is one who has taken the wrong position nt

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 05:21 PM

68. This smells like a Shock Doctrine ratfuck.

 

With the CIA and Goldman lurking in the background.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #68)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 09:55 PM

93. That's my suspicion, too

It's what they did to Chile in 1973, but Venezuela has the advantage of knowing how the story turned out in Chile.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #93)

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 12:09 AM

98. Yeah, that's it, it couldn't possibly be the fault of the VN govts. mismanagement of the economy.

No, no, can't have that now can we? Not in the workers paradise of the Chavistas.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #98)

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 03:16 AM

101. Did I say that the Venezuelan government was perfect?

I did not.

But I suggest doing some reading on the Chilean coup of 1973. There were shortages that were the result of a capital strike by the disgruntled elites of Chile, urged on by the CIA.

Most of the Venezuelan economy is still in private hands. If it's a wreck, then the private sector bears some responsibility.

We don't accept the excuse of "uncertainty" when American right-wing executives refuse to invest in America. Why should we trust right-wing executives in Venezuela?

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #101)

Mon Nov 17, 2014, 10:12 PM

119. If the government is controlling prices

so business owners can't make a profit and have to turn to the black market, you can't exactly blame them for a toilet paper shortage.

No one sells below cost and stays in business for long. And that goes for the poor woman on the street selling bananas, too.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #101)

Mon Nov 17, 2014, 11:05 PM

121. True, most of the businesses are still in private hands,

but the govt is dictating what prices they can set for their goods, so for all intents and purposes, those businesses aren't in private hands anymore.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #121)

Tue Nov 18, 2014, 12:43 AM

123. Just like what Nixon did, then

if you will recall, as an attempt to control inflation.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #123)

Tue Nov 18, 2014, 12:48 AM

124. And, just like in VN. it backfired badly.

Too bad Maduro hasn't learned the lesson of Nixon.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #68)

Tue Nov 18, 2014, 01:35 PM

127. Yup. The Mighty Wurlitzer is getting it's freak on.

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 05:40 PM

69. Anyone beisdes me ever heard of "The Peter Principle?"

It was created initially for business, someone does well, and gets a promotion.
And proceeds to get in way over their head.

This can apply elsewhere, and in Venezuela it has.
Maduro is on way over his head and is beginning the autocratic "banana republic" methodology.

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Response to Archae (Reply #69)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:16 PM

76. Thought-provoking attempt to try to stretch "banana republic" to fit Maduro's administration! Wow.

Had to run off for a quick search grab to remind people just how this term came into use, for chrissakes.


Banana Republic

"Although the United States is, uh, a very rich country and San Marcos is a very poor one, there are a great many things we have to offer your country in return for aid. For instance, there, uh, there are locusts."
— Fielding Mellish, Bananas

Any backwards tropical country (almost always fictitious, more often than not Latin American), that is ruled by a small corrupt clique (often but not always presided over by a man with a chest full of medals and epic facial hair). Also known in Spanish as "República Bananera" or "República del Plátano". Usually a People's Republic of Tyranny or a Puppet State. Will probably contain Jailbirds of Panama.
The terms has its origins in the United Fruit Company, an honest-to-god Mega Corp. with a Corrupt Corporate Executive approach. With the help of their buddies in the CIA, and some "well-intentioned" and actually well intentioned American presidents, United Fruit created countless US-friendly military dictatorships throughout the tropics dedicated to growing bananas. In these countries, United Fruit paid extremely low wages and close to zero taxes. Marxist and Maoist guerrillas surfaced everywhere, and a cycle of civil wars and dictatorial overthrows ensued.
Since it was usually the Communists who opposed the dictatorships note , in Latin America, the term is associated with countries that have governments that are controlled by multinational corporations, and not with just any decadent dictatorship per se. In Europe and the U.S, the connotation tends to fall more closely with that of any dictatorship in any tropical country, capitalist, socialist, or what have you. Although, possible exceptions notwithstanding, there aren't really any left in Latin America these days, they can still be found in Africa and Southeast Asia.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BananaRepublic

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Wikipedia:

Original banana republic

The history of the first banana republic begins with the introduction of the banana to the US in 1870, by Lorenzo Dow Baker, captain of the schooner Telegraph. He initially bought bananas in Jamaica and sold them in Boston at a 1,000 percent profit.[7] The banana proved popular with Americans, as a nutritious tropical fruit that was less expensive than fruit grown locally in the U.S., such as apples. In 1913, for example, twenty-five cents bought a dozen bananas, but only two apples.[8] Its popularity among Americans was also spurred by the American railroad tycoons Henry Meiggs and his nephew, Minor C. Keith, who in 1873 began establishing banana plantations along the railroads they built in Costa Rica to produce food for their railroad workers. This experience led them to recognize the potential profitability of exporting bananas for sale, and they began exporting the fruit to the Southeastern United States.[9]

In the mid-1870s, to manage the new industrial-agriculture business enterprise in the countries of Central America, Keith founded the Tropical Trading and Transport Company: one-half of what would later become the United Fruit Company (Chiquita Brands International, created in 1899 by corporate merger with the Boston Fruit Company and owned by Andrew Preston). By the 1930s, the international political and economic tensions of the United Fruit Company had enabled it to gain control of 80 to 90 per cent of the U.S. banana trade.[10] Nonetheless, despite the UFC monopoly, in 1924, the Vaccaro Brothers established the Standard Fruit Company (Dole Food Company) to export Honduran bananas to the port of New Orleans in the Gulf of Mexico coast of the U.S. The fruit exporters were able to keep U.S. prices so low because the banana companies, through their manipulation of the producing countries' national land use laws, were able to cheaply buy large tracts of prime agricultural land for banana plantations in the countries of the Caribbean Basin, the Central American isthmus, and the tropical South American countries — and, having rendered the native peoples landless through a policy of legalistic dispossession, were therefore able to employ them as low-wage workers.[9]

Moreover, by the late 19th century, three American multinational corporations — the United Fruit Company, the Standard Fruit Company, and the Cuyamel Fruit Company — dominated the cultivation, harvesting, and exportation of bananas, and controlled the road, rail, and port infrastructure of Honduras. In the northern coastal areas near the Caribbean Sea, the Honduran government ceded to the banana companies 500 hectares (1,235.52 acres) for each kilometre of railroad laid, even though there was still no passenger or freight railroad to Tegucigalpa, the national capital city. Among the Honduran people, the United Fruit Company was known as El Pulpo ("The Octopus", because its influence had come to pervade their society, controlled their country's transport infrastructure, and sometimes violently manipulated national politics.[11]

[center]~ ~ ~[/center]
The history of the first banana republic begins with the introduction of the banana to the US in 1870, by Lorenzo Dow Baker, captain of the schooner Telegraph. He initially bought bananas in Jamaica and sold them in Boston at a 1,000 percent profit.[7] The banana proved popular with Americans, as a nutritious tropical fruit that was less expensive than fruit grown locally in the U.S., such as apples. In 1913, for example, twenty-five cents bought a dozen bananas, but only two apples.[8] Its popularity among Americans was also spurred by the American railroad tycoons Henry Meiggs and his nephew, Minor C. Keith, who in 1873 began establishing banana plantations along the railroads they built in Costa Rica to produce food for their railroad workers. This experience led them to recognize the potential profitability of exporting bananas for sale, and they began exporting the fruit to the Southeastern United States.[9]

In the mid-1870s, to manage the new industrial-agriculture business enterprise in the countries of Central America, Keith founded the Tropical Trading and Transport Company: one-half of what would later become the United Fruit Company (Chiquita Brands International, created in 1899 by corporate merger with the Boston Fruit Company and owned by Andrew Preston). By the 1930s, the international political and economic tensions of the United Fruit Company had enabled it to gain control of 80 to 90 per cent of the U.S. banana trade.[10] Nonetheless, despite the UFC monopoly, in 1924, the Vaccaro Brothers established the Standard Fruit Company (Dole Food Company) to export Honduran bananas to the port of New Orleans in the Gulf of Mexico coast of the U.S. The fruit exporters were able to keep U.S. prices so low because the banana companies, through their manipulation of the producing countries' national land use laws, were able to cheaply buy large tracts of prime agricultural land for banana plantations in the countries of the Caribbean Basin, the Central American isthmus, and the tropical South American countries — and, having rendered the native peoples landless through a policy of legalistic dispossession, were therefore able to employ them as low-wage workers.[9]

Moreover, by the late 19th century, three American multinational corporations — the United Fruit Company, the Standard Fruit Company, and the Cuyamel Fruit Company — dominated the cultivation, harvesting, and exportation of bananas, and controlled the road, rail, and port infrastructure of Honduras. In the northern coastal areas near the Caribbean Sea, the Honduran government ceded to the banana companies 500 hectares (1,235.52 acres) for each kilometre of railroad laid, even though there was still no passenger or freight railroad to Tegucigalpa, the national capital city. Among the Honduran people, the United Fruit Company was known as El Pulpo ("The Octopus", because its influence had come to pervade their society, controlled their country's transport infrastructure, and sometimes violently manipulated national politics.[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic

[font size=6]ETC.[/font]

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #76)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:18 PM

78. And this has what to do with what's going on in VN today?

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #78)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:25 PM

81. Ask the 1 who wrote "Maduro is on way over his head and is beginning the autocratic "banana republic

Take the time to form a thought before posting.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #81)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:40 PM

85. Well, he is in over his head and well on the way towards a banana republic.

I'm truly sorry that you can't recognize it, or you can but can't bring yourself to admit it.
Either way, I'll be surprised if Maduro is still around in 12 months.

VN. is in for some hard times due to the ineptness of Pres. Maduro and his comrades.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #76)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:21 PM

80. The pattern is there.

Censorship of media.

Hired goons.

Arbitrary "rule by decree."

State control of goods.

Mismanagement and corruption the norm.

The biggest difference is the ideology.
Nearly all banana republics were (or are) right-wing.
Maduro is left-wing.

Otherwise the pattern is there.

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Response to Archae (Reply #80)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:27 PM

82. Pattern is there? You forgot they are puppet governments put in place by US interests,

and serve the interests of the US before those of their own people.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #82)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:43 PM

86. I guess when all else fails, blame the US govt for VN's woes.

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Response to GGJohn (Reply #86)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 11:17 PM

95. Obama was positively cackling when he gave the order to impose hyperinflation there (nt)

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #95)

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 05:47 PM

111. I think yours is the winning post for today!

 

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:18 PM

77. Will the Vultures like Paul Singer come in at the last minute and buy the debt for a fraction

then demand the country pay the debt in full, thus killing many citizens?

see Greg Palast and his reporting on this

These pigs should be arrested and executed

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Response to randys1 (Reply #77)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:32 PM

83. No. VZ will simply default

As for the citizens, they are killing themselves just fine - they have the second highest murder rate in the world.

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:54 PM

87. What an absolute mess Chavez and Maduro have made of that place.

Hyperinflation, food rationing, and you need to wipe your ass with newspaper because there is no toilet paper.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #87)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 10:51 PM

94. It was such a paradise before.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracazo

This was the event that radicalized Chavez, and a whole lot of other people.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #87)

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 12:25 AM

99. The problem is the dependence on oil, and has been a problem since at least the 1920s

 

By 1929, the dramatic development of the Venezuela oil industry had begun to dominate all other economic sectors in the country, however, agricultural production began to decrease dramatically. This sudden increase of attention to oil and neglect of the agrarian sector caused the Venezuelan economy to suffer from a phenomenon known as the Dutch Disease. This "disease" occurs when a commodity brings a substantial increase of income in one sector of the economy, causing a strengthening of currency which in turn harms exports of manufacturing and other sectors. Agriculture accounted for about one-third of economic production in the 1920s, but by the 1950s this fraction dramatically reduced to one-tenth. This sudden increase of oil production restricted Venezuela’s overall ability to create and maintain other industries. The government had ignored serious social problems, including education, health, infrastructure, agriculture, and domestic industries, causing Venezuela to fall well behind other industrialized countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Venezuelan_oil_industry


More on the Dutch Disease:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease

"In economics, the Dutch disease is the apparent relationship between the increase in the economic development of natural resources and a decline in the manufacturing sector (or agriculture). The mechanism is that an increase in revenues from natural resources (or inflows of foreign aid) will make a given nation's currency stronger compared to that of other nations (manifest in an exchange rate), resulting in the nation's other exports becoming more expensive for other countries to buy, and imports becoming cheaper, making the manufacturing sector less competitive. While it most often refers to natural resource discovery, it can also refer to "any development that results in a large inflow of foreign currency, including a sharp surge in natural resource prices, foreign assistance, and foreign direct investment".

The term was coined in 1977 by The Economist to describe the decline of the manufacturing sector in the Netherlands after the discovery of a large natural gas field in 1959.


The Government should also consider the advice of an opposition Economist,that is to default:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-07/venezuelan-default-suggested-by-harvard-economist.html

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 11:19 PM

97. Bond traders, generally, are lying sacks of shit. Sort of like selling used cars.

A bond trader who is scared to death, therefore, is a bond trader looking to buy.

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 01:33 AM

100. Hey that Bolivarian Socialism is really working out well !

At least working out as well as anyone with a lick of economic sense knew it would.

This kind of socialism simply doesn't work. Ever.

On the upside I hear that Maduro is guaranteeing a happy Christmas by ordering stores to discount toys and electronics. As if these command and control, top down economic decisions ever had any chance of creating a serious economy. Venezuela is a complete basket case and it is only a matter of time before it implodes. Then the Chavez/Maduro keyboard commando's will go the way the folks that used to defend Robert Mugabe on here years ago (and yes, there were a cadre of folks who did precisely that).

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Response to Imajika (Reply #100)

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 05:49 PM

112. Really? Mugabe? I guess I missed those OPs unless it was before my time.

 

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 03:29 PM

106. If you follow the western media narritive on Ven, everyone there should have died a decade ago.

Just saying

I also know someone in the US media that generate a lot of this "news" Cavez straight up jacked his grandpa for about a billion dollars. While still disgustingly rich the fact that he has chosen covering Ven in the media as his vocation pretty much tells you what you need to know.

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Sun Nov 16, 2014, 12:57 AM

114. the collapse of oil prices should put a damper on dirty oil projects here too

Venezuela has mostly heavy oil that costs more to refine and the shale oil and tar sands in the US and Canada are dirtier still, which means low prices could suck the profit clean out of it.

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Mon Nov 17, 2014, 10:35 PM

120. Hi...

...larious.

Anyone paying the slightest attention would be worried about Europe, Japan and the good ole USA where the markets are all totally corrupted by printed money and bankster accomodation.

To single out an insignificant country like Venezuala is pathetic.

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Tue Nov 18, 2014, 12:12 AM

122. You know it's bad when Cubans are fleeing that country.

" The number of Cuban medical professionals defecting from their posts in Venezuela has ballooned in the past year, and many of them are winding up in the United States."

http://www.ibtimes.com/cuban-doctors-flee-venezuela-help-us-parole-program-1725034

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Response to FLPanhandle (Original post)

Tue Nov 18, 2014, 02:00 PM

128. Here's a thought; maybe the Maduro supporters here should move their savings to Venezuela...

...you know, show your faith in the Bolivarian revolution. With the pro investors pulling out there should be bargain basement investments to snap up.

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