At least 20 Egyptian Christians kidnapped in Libya

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-Excite

By MAGGIE MICHAEL

CAIRO (AP) — Masked gunmen in central Libya kidnapped 13 Coptic Christians on Saturday after seven were abducted days earlier, said a witness and a priest, in a new wave of assaults against Egypt's Christians working in the war-torn North African nation plagued with Islamic extremists.

Witness Hanna Aziz told The Associated Press that the gunmen in the Libyan city of Sirte went room to room in their residence at 2:30 a.m. Saturday and asked for identification papers to separate Muslim workers from Christians. Aziz says the gunmen handcuffed the Christians and drove away with them.

"They were 15 armed and masked men who came in four vehicles. They had a list of full names of Christians in the building. While checking IDs, Muslims were left aside while Christians were grabbed," Aziz said, adding that he survived simply because he didn't open his door.

"I heard my friends screaming but they were quickly shushed at gunpoint. After that, we heard nothing," said Aziz who said he has three relatives among the hostages. "I am still in my room waiting for them to take me. I want to die with them," he added.

FULL story at link.



Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20150103/ml--libya-4bf9d7667d.html

[CJCRANE]

1. Thanks to Cameron and Hollande

for taking the lead in another disastrous neocon/neolib foreign adventure.

[oberliner]

2. Or maybe blame the actual people who are doing this

There's a novel idea.

[Igel]

3. They're picking up from where the Somalis in NE Kenya left off.

Not that they're the first group to do this. They're just scattered from Ache in SE Asia to NW Africa.

Mustn't see any connection.

[Comrade Grumpy]

4. There's enough blame to go around.

Libya was a quiet, fairly prosperous country ruled by an eccentric dictator.

Now, it barely exists, and the jihadi crazies are running rampant.

"We came, we saw, he died"--Hillary Clinton. Not her best moment.

[oberliner]

8. Here's to prosperous dictatorships!

As long as they stay quiet, it's all good apparently.

[Comrade Grumpy]

19. Here's to imperial interventions, failed states, and jihadi hotbeds!

Is Libya better off without Ghaddafi?

Is the region better off without Ghaddafi?

Is the world better off without Ghaddafi?

Those are all debatable questions, I suppose.

[oberliner]

20. The Libyan civil war was going to happen with or without "imperial interventions"

For some people in Libya life was good with Ghaddafi, for others it was not.

My only point is that the people that are abducting Christians now are responsible for their actions. They are not doing it because of "The West".

[Duckhunter935]

26. I am sure the ones Ghaddafi

murdered and suppressed would be better off without him

[Comrade Grumpy]

31. And the rest of the Libyans?

They went from a relatively prosperous and stable, if stifling, autocratic regime to a failed economy, a failed state, and rule by militia, many of them jihadist.

It seems to be a familiar pattern with the West in Muslim lands: Overthrow ugly, authoritarian, but stable governments and replace them with chaos: Iraq, Syria, Libya, Somalia, Afghanistan. How's that working out?

[Duckhunter935]

32. Oh yes

I am sure it was a paradise for them. I guess it is OK just to oppress and murder some as long as the rest prosper. Kind of like what is happening in Russia and Crimea now. Islam may be a great religion and more power too them but I do not have to agree to the oppression or treatment of females or minorities religions in that culture.

[cosmicone]

27. Everyone knows the answer to those questions

Unfortunately, some would insist on the ideal situation in their minds even though such insistence makes things far far worse than they actually were.

[Scootaloo]

28. Compared to murderous anarchy, yes.

Real quick, given the choice between say, Assad ruling Syria, and Syria dissolving into seven warring states with fluid gang-based "leadership", which is preferable?

You can't just shoot Ghaddafi in the ass until he dies and expect a mature democracy to sprout from the pool of blood like fucking apple trees.

[Rhinodawg]

25. " jihadi crazies" ?

wow.... I gotta save that.

[7962]

6. Come now, how can you make sense like that and be taken seriously? nt

[Posteritatis]

7. Remember, mere foreigners can't ever have agency of their own

They're all robots controlled by the West, not real people.

That's one of the big lessons DU teaches around things like this. (Oy.)

[CJCRANE]

13. There is a concept called cause and effect.

When you destroy a county's government and pump weapons into the area you're likely to get negative results.

We complain about it when Russia gives weapons to the Ukrainian rebels yet somehow turn a blind eye when the West does it.

[oberliner]

15. Human beings are responsible for their own actions

The masked gunmen who decided to abduct Christians are human beings capable of exercising judgement.

[CJCRANE]

17. Yes. However, financiers are also responsible for the work of hitmen.

Sometimes without the financier there would not be a crime.

Cause and effect.

[Comrade Grumpy]

21. Yes. And our actions in Libya didn't turn out so well, did they?

[Posteritatis]

30. Astounding how hard it is for people to grasp that, isn't it?

Much easier for them to say "anything bad that happens abroad is just the fault of my political opponents, because it fits my personal narrative." Demotes them from "human beings responsible for their own actions" to "mere pawns of my enemies," and makes the world comfortingly simple to understand.

[CJCRANE]

11. The West supported the extremists

and so did our allies.

We share the blame for unleashing this monster.

[840high]

22. ...^ that

[cosmicone]

5. +1

Dictators are way better than Islamists. Saddam was better than ISIS, Mubarak better than brotherhood and Q'addafi better than the Libyan clusterfuck we have now.

Hope we learn a lesson and not embolden Bashar Assad's extremist opposition.

[oberliner]

9. Another post in praise of dictatorships

Not the most progressive of values, I daresay.

[CJCRANE]

10. What has been the result of the West's interventions in this century?

Nothing but chaos and worse conditions for the countries involved especially for women and christians.

Some people think Obama is a dictator. Does that give them the right to tear down the American system?

Should we also tear down all the other dictatorships in the world no matter the cost to the countries involved or our own security?

[oberliner]

16. The Libyan people attempted to overthrow this dictatorship on their own

If the West hadn't gotten involved, we would either still be where we are now or we would be looking at a brutal crackdown by a loony dictator on innocent people.

[CJCRANE]

18. We've seen crackdowns against protesters all over the world

at home and abroad. That's nothing new.

There wasn't enough momentum or popularity for the protesters to topple Gadaffi without western help. The same with Assad.

FWIW I supported the intervention in Libya at the time but now I regret it and think we were mislead.

[Posteritatis]

29. And people here would be cheering it

Enough of them were openly rooting for Qadaffi at the time (not to mention every other authoritarian leader who's been on the receiving end of an uprising). It's kinda nauseating.

There's a whole lot of "this leader doesn't like the US therefore they're on the side of the angels" being flung around with stuff like that.

[cosmicone]

12. Lesser of two evils n/t

[pangaia]

33. I do not see Cosmicone's post in praise of ANYTHING .

[Rhinodawg]

23. I never thought I would think this way...but I agree with you.

nt

[Rhinodawg]

14. Do we have to hear every crime or atrocity ?

well, maybe we do.

[Sunlei]

24. They had a list & checked IDs? What contractor were they working for? sounds like the IS ransom gang

[question everything]

34. This is a fact that many choose to ignore

The persecution and execution of Christians in Arab Countries.