US Threatens to Cut Off Aid to Palestinians After Move to Join ICC
Source: Palestine News Network
PNN/Washington
A senior official in the U.S. State Department stated on Saturday that any further steps made by the Palestinians to join the International Criminal Court will have consequences for the U.S. aid to the Palestinian people.
"It should come as no surprise that there will be implications for this step, but we continue to review," said the official.
On Friday, Palestinian Ambassador to UN, Riyad Mansour formally submitted documentations on joining the International Criminal Court.
"This is a very significant step," Mansour said. "It is an option that we are seeking in order to seek justice for all the victims that have been killed by 'Israel', the occupying power."
Read more: http://english.pnn.ps/index.php/politics/8931-us-threatens-to-cut-off-aid-to-palestinians-after-move-to-join-icc
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Response to Purveyor (Original post)
guyton This message was self-deleted by its author.
And sent to friends.
No one should be punished for joining the ICC. There's a reason the Frat Boy and the Big Dick didn't, after all, and they brought shame to all of us.
..
Rhiannon12866
(205,405 posts)
Response to Purveyor (Original post)
Post removed
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Right Mr Adelson?
ann---
(1,933 posts)Israel doesn't need our aid. Palestine does.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Is money really the only thing America values? What about equal justice and respect for basic, universal human rights?
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)A rogue country loaded with war criminals.
What have we got to lose? Or hide.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Can't be done. Countries need us more then we need them.
hack89
(39,171 posts)
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)It's in the right place now.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)ann---
(1,933 posts)Someone just posted that Obama was the greatest modern president. I think not if this is how we treat the victims of Israel's aggression.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)They are not particularly good at objectivity.
Deny and Shred
(1,061 posts)Money trumps Peace, and Justice apparently.
In 2014, 'Palestine' got economic aid of $440 million down from $545 million with no military aid.(Bear in mind, Isreal used US weapons to level several town in Gaza.) In 2014, Israel received $500 in military and $3.1 billion in economic aid.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stat/usaid.html
Lest we forget, Israel's elected officials continually complain about Obama. Complain is a kind way of putting things.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Not only are we going to blame the victims of Israeli brutality for being victims, we are now also going to punish those victims for merely seeking a judgment against their tormentors!
wordpix
(18,652 posts)This is what's really happening. It's all about the international arms trade and making the rich richer.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)No arguments from me anyhow.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)will be hit with serious sanctions and criminal penalties. Palestinians are not the only ones calling out for justice. The ICC will create a giant headache for the US and Israel.
Good.
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)it probably has something to do with upholding the rule of law that "we" so frequently ignore.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)where Israel drags its feet, continues to encroach (AKA steal) Palestinian land, continues to let it's colonial gangsta settlers destroy Palestinian property, continues its shoot to kill policy on Palestinians, continues to kill Palestinians children then blame the Palestinians for it…and all the Palestinians have to do is go back to the negotiating table for that roadmap to piece. 
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Just Israel demands.
Big_Mike
(509 posts)
PCIntern
(25,552 posts)Too bad...continue to gnash your teeth.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)despicable US foreign policy that facilitates apartheid. This thread and its many replies demonstrate that.
We could force a end to it but we don't thus we have little moral authority to wag our finger at other countries and their human rights violations.
PCIntern
(25,552 posts)the Palestinian News people put the name of the country in quotes…as though they don't really exist except in some fraudulent sense. They don't accept the existence of the State…this is not going to go well for them. But they know that...
Mosby
(16,317 posts)All the references to Israel are in quotes. This news site can't even accept the existence of the Jewish state.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)I don't know why they did it this time, but I don't read PNN.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)More like not blocking certain kinds.
hack89
(39,171 posts)
former9thward
(32,013 posts)In addition the U.S. gives $200 million a year to a U.N. Palestinian Aid agency.
From FY2008 to the present, annual Economic Support Fund (ESF) assistance to the West Bank
and Gaza Strip has averaged around $400 million, with that amount divided between U.S. Agency
for International Development (USAID)-administered project assistance (through grants to
contracting organizations) and direct budgetary assistance to the Palestinian Authority (PA).
Annual International Narcotics Control and Law Enforcement (INCLE) nonlethal assistance for
PA security forces and the criminal justice sector in the West Bank has averaged around $100
million. In line with Obama Administration requests, funding levels declined slightly in FY2013,
with a new baseline of overall annual ESF assistance of $370 million, and a new baseline of
annual INCLE assistance of $70 million. Administration requests for ESF and INCLE have
remained constant for FY2014 and FY2015. Some FY2013 ESF funding has been provided via
the ESF-Overseas Contingency Operations (OCO) account, and the State Department expects to
draw from this account in FY2014 as well.
Additional U.S. humanitarian assistance for Palestinian refugees in Gaza and elsewhere continues
through contributions to the U.N. Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near
East (UNRWA). U.S. contributions to UNRWA, which have totaled more than $4.9 billion since
UNRWA’s inception in 1950, have averaged over $200 million annually.
http://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)Putin has his own problems with cash now that oil is half what it used to be. MAybe he'll attack another country to get the Russian peoples minds off it.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)You have to remember that Russia has kind of a history of revolution.
Even more than the French.
7962
(11,841 posts)
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)I dunno. Maybe if the US treated the Palestinian population as though their lives were worth anywhere near a fraction of the value of Israeli lives, then they might be a bit more friendly towards the US.
WhiteAndNerdy
(365 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)To put it in perspective, the US gives Israel many billions of dollars each year in aid.
No. I'm talking about things like the way the US reacts when there's attacks on Palestinians. A recent example was the resolution done by the US Congress during the bombing of Gaza which went on and on about how bad the Palestinians were and there wasn't one single word about the thousands of casualties in Gaza. There's plenty more like that. So why should Palestinians like the US after that sort of thing? I sure wouldn't.
branford
(4,462 posts)is money that must be spent purchasing US made and manufactured arms and equipment?
The vast majority of Israeli aid is a stealth stimulus program for the arms and related industries, and popular with both Democrats and Republicans because the work is spread around the country, and corporations benefit as well as numerous unions. The aid also results in many joint military development projects that directly benefit American R&D and strategic defense, with ancillary effects on civilian technological development good for both American and Israeli companies. For such a tiny country, it's almost inconceivable how much American companies privately invest in Israel, particularly expert technical manufacture and acquisition of intellectual property from Israeli start-ups. The positive synergy between US and Israel is unparalleled and considered very beneficial to the USA. The American aid to Israel is a good investment.
Can anything similar be remotely said about Palestinian aid, particularly since its use is hardly transparent and plagued with corruption and graft. It would be worse without the "attached strings."
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)It's a win-win situation for the US and Israel. Imagine those ungrateful Palestinians not liking the US too much!
ellenrr
(3,864 posts)"The Israeli guns that took part in the Rwanda genocide"
"According to UN officials, 1 million men, women and children were massacred in Rwanda in the space of 100 days. At that pace, an average of tens of thousands of people were killed daily — faster than the annihilation of Hungary’s Jews during the final years of the Holocaust. It is apparently the fastest pace of genocide in human history.
...
"Israel was one source. It provided the Hutus with 5.56-millimeter bullets as well as rifles and grenades captured during the 1973 Yom Kippur War. Evidence has accumulated over the years, some of it gathered by Israelis who visited Rwanda during the massacre or shortly afterward. The motive was pure greed, with a sprinkling of macabre justifications.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/.premium-1.635058
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Doesn't Israel have a right to defend itself when thousands of rockets are being rained on civilian areas?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)"Doesn't Israel have a right to defend itself..."
No, not in that manner.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)It was during a war started by the Arabs to destroy Israel -- right? RIGHT?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Israel can hold on to it forever, legally. The very fact that they are willing to negotiate its return is an act of extreme graciousness.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)nailed it.
and bookmarked.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)nailed it.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)wouldn't be called a scent ... more like odor. It doesn't even have to be nailed since it is self-evident.
United States occupied Texas in a war against Mexico and kept it. If it was illegal, Mexico would still be claiming it. The United States also occupied New Mexico and California and kept those after Mexico had no choice but to accept an offer of some $15 million plus assumption of $3.25 million of Mexico's debt.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)I feel sorry for you.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Have fun with colonialism while it lasts.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)like they say, dream on.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)BDS.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts) The Stranger
(11,297 posts)No one -- but no one -- believes this.
Just do yourself a favor and stop.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)Where we should be directing our outrage is at a ME policy that supports the military-industrial complex and their billionaire execs.
SpankMe
(2,957 posts)What the hell is the administration thinking? They get the ball rolling to lift sanctions against Cuba with the rationale (in part, at least) that further engagement will move Cuba in a direction more favorable to its citizens and less favorable to a dictatorship-like government. And Cuba has been a sponsor of terrorism of sorts in the past.
Here, we have the Palestinians seeking to become MORE civilized by joining a respected world body whose purpose is meting out justice and promoting world peace through the trying of the world's bad boys. And we're threatening what little aid we give them over this??!!!
What the fuck, man! What'll they do when Cuba applies?
The withdrawal of aid, as well as sanctions (which I know aren't being proposed here, but still) should be reserved for states who commit criminal or negative acts, and not neutral or honorable acts which may go against US desires.
I call bullshit.
Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)No, I have no answers.
TRoN33
(769 posts)Palestine are getting killed on daily basis by Israeli soldiers for NO REASONS.
Netanyahu is fucking fascist who are hell bent on expanding his country's borders. In case someone aren't sure what I means, Israel doesn't even officially draw its own border map. They are looking for an expansion of greater Israel that can have military might along with resource that can rival the power five countries (U.S., U.K., Russia, China, France).
karynnj
(59,503 posts)There are conditions that were in the Congressional approval of the money. Even going to the UN unilaterally could have triggered them.
I suspect that Kerry is one of the people least happy with Netanyahu's actions. He worked incredibly hard to try to get the two sides to make the right choices -- and likely knows that - as many might assume - Netanyahu was never honest in his dealings with either the Palestinians or Kerry.
It is ridiculous to say that Israel will have power to rival the US etc.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)By which I mean the USA.
Whatever happened to standing for something ...
something other than mindlessly adhering to the same
old tired alliances with war-criminal nations who daily
make a mockery of the very notion of human rights?
We are one sick fucking country. And this is under
a "Democratic" POTUS.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)Absolutely.
We should be more like the Palestinians and their society.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)but we could be more like Sweden or Canada or New Zealand,
and it would be a huge improvement.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)(Since I disagree , the jury will see this...to the jury, I've attacked no one , was not over the top or rude except..... to what Comrade Grumpy calls the "jihadi crazies"
Doesn't matter them leaving the peace table
Doesn't matter the endless political antisemitism
Doesn't matter the endless terrorism
Doesn't matter the lack of freedoms including freedom of speech,religion,press and assembly
Doesn't matter the murder of gay Palestinians
Doesn't matter the subjugation of women
Doesn't matter the joke of a judicial system
Doesn't matter the media controlled antisemitic / anti US propaganda
Doesn't matter it's presidential non existent voting that's overdue for like 9 years
Doesn't matter they can't even accept the concept of accepting even the word Israel
Doesn't matter they've done NOTHING about acid attacks and honor killing.
Doesn't matter the use of children in war.
(Of course it will all change when they get their own country)
Nope...we MUST give and give to them.
Let's give till its hurts.
7962
(11,841 posts)Its amazing how the palestinians are never blamed for ANYTHING. Not to mention the fact that a lot of money we've sent to them has been stolen by Hamas and used to build those elaborate tunnels.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)They appear to blame the Palestinians for a whole lot. Why would you not notice that?
7962
(11,841 posts)Where arab nations arent expected to do anything for the palestinians but the israelis are demanded to do everything.
Yes, Israel does stupid stuff sometimes and it makes no sense, but I'll back them over those who celebrate attacks on us and encourage attacks on israeli civilians. They just put out a youtube video on how to stab a jew. Are ALL palestinians the same? No im sure they're not. But until they denounce violence and rid themselves of hamas and the like, they get what they pay for. ALL germans were punished and all japanese were punished.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)wordpix
(18,652 posts)Mousa Abu Marzook and Khaled Meshaal are just two of them. It is believed that they gained their billions by gouging their own people for things like fuel (upping the price to 8x what they paid suppliers) and other necessities that were smuggled through the tunnels. Hamas "reportedly collected at least $365 million in taxes each year from the tunnel trade"
See: http://docs.house.gov/meetings/FA/FA13/20140909/102629/HHRG-113-FA13-Wstate-SchanzerJ-20140909.pdf
Add the billions Iran, Qatar and Egypt have given to Hamas, and the Palestinians should be able to build a good economy. Instead there's 40% unemployment and substandard living conditions.
It appears the Hamas leadership is using the $$$ for themselves.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)So I'm not really sure what you said had to do with what's being discussed, which is the US in a fit of pique threatening to cut off aid to the PA.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)Since Hamas is controlling Gaza I'll assume it goes to them.
http://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/R41514.pdf
Between June 2007, when the current U.S. aid program for the Palestinians began, and 2010, “U.S. bilateral assistance to the West Bank and Gaza Strip has amounted to approximately $2 billion, and assistance to UNWRA [United Nations Relief and Works Agency] for Palestinian Refugees (including in Gaza) has totaled over $700 million” (Zanotti, 2010, p.27).
Yes the source is a bit old but it's the latest I could find in the time I have.
Also, as far as international aid goes, read Schanzer's testimony here:
http://docs.house.gov/meetings/FA/FA13/20140909/102629/HHRG-113-FA13-Wstate-SchanzerJ-20140909.pdf
It's lengthy and it's thorough.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)I'm pretty sure many donor countries refuse to deal directly with Hamas. Clearly the population needs aid, so the aid would bypass Hamas. At least that's my understanding of it.
7962
(11,841 posts)NGOs have been frustrated for some time by this. Google it and you'll find plenty of stories about it. All the way down to the names of people they're working for. No pressure there, right?
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Even if anyone was ignorant enough of the I/P conflict to believe what you said, why would it matter when the US gives far, far more to Israel, which is guilty of some of those things in that 'list'?
I don't see how anyone who claims to be left-wing could approve of the US chucking a temper tantrum because Palestine applied to join the ICC, when the US and Israel both refuse to join, along with a whole bunch of other international bodies and conventions they refuse to sign on to. Why is it back in the noughties when there was a spate of suicide bombings many 'supporters' of Israel would insist that the Palestinians must take the legal way of doing things and they'd be listened to. Now they are I see many of the same folk (many extremist right-wingers) whining because they are doing things through the correct channels and taking their very legitimate grievances to the international community.
I've noticed in several of yr recent posts that you keep on talking about Comrade Grumpy. You talk about him a lot. Why's that? It's clear he strongly disagrees with yr views on Muslims just for one, so I don't get why you repeatedly call him out in thread after thread.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)As for Cromrade grumpy, I'm not ashamed to say it, I love that that man. Lol
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Try going back and reading it again. Slowly.
Why do you love Comrade Grumpy when he so clearly disagrees with just about everything you say and doesn't like you? It just comes across as a bit creepy when you start calling him out in threads he's not even in.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)but tell me, how many atrocities by Hamas would it take for you to support cutting off aid to Palestine?
Don't split, saying "but the aid is being given to the saner, less violent West Bank."
Don't deflect, saying "but but but Israel does it too!"
What is the deep-seated reason behind your constant support of Islamic bad boys around the world? I have seen you being sympathetic to Al Q'aeda, ISIS and Hamas. I haven't seen any posts from you supporting Al Shabab or Boko Haram.
However, in my experience, people who support ISIS, Al Q'aeda or Hamas have passionate reasons why they do so from dislike of the USA to dislike of European-origin people/policies in general to just plain envy of Israel.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)No. You haven't seen that. That's because I don't support religious extremists of any type. But if you insist on claiming you've seen me supporting them, put yr money where yr mouth is and show me some links to where I've done this. Because I think yr either confusing me with someone else or are just making that one up.
Personally I think the best thing would be for the international community to stop providing aid and make Israel take on the responsibility that goes along with occupying territory, which is responsibility for the occupied population. However this is about the US and Israel attempting to punish the PA for joining an international body that neither the US or Israel belong to because both think they're above the rest of the world and shouldn't be held accountable for crimes they commit. For years the claim from 'supporters' of Israel in the US was that the Palestinians should use legal channels to pursue statehood and justice, but when they do it the US and Israel and many of those same 'supporters' complain about them doing that.
I've noticed from reading yr posts in threads about I/P that yr knowledge of the conflict is a little bit limited. Two examples of that in this thread alone are:
1. Claiming that territory overrun in war is the spoils of the victor - That one's totally incorrect. The days of the victors take the spoils and might makes right were left behind in the earlier part of last century. In fact, UNSC242 states in the preamble: 'Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war'. So, acquiring territory in war is illegal, which means Israel has no legal sovereignty over the occupied territories. It is legal for it to occupy territory as long as it abides by the international laws that apply to occupation. Israel doesn't do that, though.
2. Pretending the PA = Hamas = ISIS. This one's just plain weird. The PA is the recognised voice of the Palestinian people and is predominantly Farah, while Hamas isn't the PA and control Gaza. The problem for people who try to ignore the PA (that's where most international aid goes to) is that in doing so they ignore the West Bank, which is that biggish chunk of land that Israel's currently busy building settlements on. When or if the PA and Hamas get a unity thing happening, I'd be hoping that Hamas would have moderated themselves in a similar way that Sinn Fein did in Ireland. But to claim that Hamas is the PA is outright incorrect.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Occupation typically refers to foreign control of an area that was under the previous sovereignty of another state. In the case of the West Bank, there was no legitimate sovereign because the territory had been illegally occupied by Jordan from 1948 to 1967. Only two countries—Britain and Pakistan—recognized Jordan’s action. The Palestinians never demanded an end to Jordanian occupation and the creation of a Palestinian state. Not one Palestinian spoke against Jordan's occupation of the very same territory.
It is also necessary to distinguish the acquisition of territory in a war of conquest as opposed to a war of self-defense. A nation that attacks another and then retains the territory it conquers is an occupier. One that gains territory in the course of defending itself is not in the same category. This is the situation with Israel, which specifically told King Hussein that if Jordan stayed out of the 1967 war, Israel would not fight against him. Hussein ignored the warning and attacked Israel. While fending off the assault and driving out the invading Jordanian troops, Israel came to control the West Bank.
By rejecting Arab demands that Israel be required to withdraw from all the territories won in 1967, UN Security Council Resolution 242 acknowledged that Israel was entitled to claim at least part of these lands for new defensible borders.
Your last paragraph highlights Israel's problem. The Palestinian leadership is disorganized and there is no reliable negotiating partner. Fatah may want an agreement with Israel but doesn't speak for all because Hamas wants destruction of Israel.
The negotiations in Ireland were simpler because Sin Fein was a single party representing the IRA and agreed to abide by any resultant treaty.
Facts remain facts.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Though it is amusing that yr complaining about that when in the previous post you accused me of supporting terrorist groups, which I don't. I won't hold my breath waiting for any links to where you supposedly read me doing that, as they don't exist.
International law does not state that for territory to be inadmissible it must already be sovereign territory. If it did, the Indonesian occupation of East Timor would have meant that East Timor legally belonged to Indonesia. If it did, the UN Security Council wouldn't have been emphasising again and again in resolutions to do with the Occupied Territories that the acquisition of territory in war is inadmissible. It's impossible to argue with any logic that Israel has any right to the West Bank and Gaza when international law so clearly states the exact opposite.
Israel's problem is that the rest of the world apart from the US, Israel and a few tiny pacific islands are opposed to Israel occupying and building settlements in the West Bank. The Palestinians also don't have a negotiating partner, not in the extremely RW current Israeli government, which has made it very clear that it's opposed to taking the smallest steps towards a two-state solution and steadfastly opposes Palestinian statehood.
The thing with occupied populations is that their leaderships tend not to be particularly organised by virtue of the fact that they're occupied by another power. East Timor is another excellent example of that. Even now, over a decade after they gained their independence and statehood, politically they're reliant on other countries to assist them in getting basics (customs, taxation etc) running. Demanding that the political leadership of an occupied population be right up there with advanced western democracies is showing a lack of understanding of the damage that occupation does to a population.
Btw, I don't know if yr aware while yr making such a point of trying to pretend that Hamas represents the Palestinian people and is the PA, but we can use that same 'logic' with Israel. After all, the Israeli gov't is made up of Likud as well as some parties that are even worse than that. There's a current MK who advocated the genocide of the Palestinian people, as well as other MKs who have said similar things. If we were to take them (and let's face it, they're just the opposite side of the coin to Hamas) as representing the will of the Israeli population I suspect you and Rhinodawg would be swift to start accusing people saying that of being anti-Semitic.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Any agreement reached by the PA would be used by Hamas as toilet paper and then Israel will have neither the land nor the peace.
Comparing political parties within Israel to the Fatah-Hamas division is not congruent. Israel has signed treaties with Egypt and Jordan and no one in Israel is saying that those treaties are invalid. Hamas on the other hand, can't even abide by cease fires negotiated by its own leaders!!
Believe me, I would want Israel to return all the lands and have a lasting peace; however, it will be facilitated if all the leaders in Palestine disavow violence, disavow terrorism, disarm all the rockets/missiles and only engage in peaceful demonstrations such as candle light vigils.
Killing athletes in Münich, murdering kids in pizza parlors, sending rockets indiscriminately on civilians and driving cars into pedestrians is not helping nor is it likely to work.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Unlike Israel, the Palestinian leadership don't have the resources or the stability to control their radical elements.
Yr argument for why we should ignore the genocidal elements of the Israeli government doesn't work. According to that 'logic' if the PA had a peace agreement with a neighbouring state we should ignore all calls to genocide from anyone in the Palestinian government. It doesn't work like that. They should all get held to the same standard. You rush to point out atrocities committed against Israelis but stay silent on the atrocities against Palestinians. Stuff like a kid being burnt alive by Israeli extremists, terrorist attacks on Palestinian civilians (over 2800 in the past 8 years), and the bombing of Gaza which resulted in around 2000 civilian deaths. In this conflict it's safe to say that there's blood on the hands of both sides.
There's two sides to this conflict, and Israel also needs to disavow violence and terrorism. It's only when both Israel and Palestine have visionary leaders who are willing to do both and to listen to the grievances and concerns of the other, that there'll be any movement towards a permanent and peaceful two-state resolution. And there's no way of that happening until the obstructionist US butts out and stops opposing a Palestinian state emerging.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Israel is not committing genocide. That is utter hyperbole.
Israel is not involved in aggression against Palestinians as long as they remain peaceful. Israel only acts in self-defense when it is attacked. Israel has enough military power to wipe out Palestine if it wanted to -- but Israel doesn't do that.
If Israel were not so powerful, Palestinians would have destroyed Israel a long time ago. Even today, there are calls in Gaza to kill Jews and rape their women.
Palestinian grief is self-inflicted. Instead of attacking Israel in 1967, if the Arabs had forced Jordan to give back the West Bank, they would have had their state. But no. They wanted to destroy Israel and grab it all.
Fortunately, Israel kicked major ass and now Palestinians are whining that they don't have a state.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)How about a bit less knee-jerking and a bit more careful reading of what's said to you? That way you won't do what you did uptrend and make ridiculous and untrue accusations about me supporting terrorist groups, or the one now where yr making out I said that Israel is committing genocide.
What I said was that there are Israeli MKs who advocate genocide against the Palestinian people, and I pointed it out because of yr insistence that we ignore the PA and only focus on the most extreme elements in Palestine. It's absolutely undeniable that Israeli MKs have advocated genocide, so if you want to get all outraged, get outraged at them, not at me for something I didn't say...
As for the rest of yr incredibly one-sided 'Israel is always right/Palestinians are always wrong' post, this attitude appears to be common in the US, where the slaughter of Palestinian children is cheered on as 'kicking major ass' and the Palestinians are whiners for wanting what every other human being is entitled to - self-determination and the right to their own state.
Btw, why is it that you seem to think Jordan was wrong for occupying the West Bank, but appear to blindly support Israel's occupation?
A bit less gung-ho blind support of one side at all costs on yr part would go a long way, imp...
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)My comment about "kicking major ass" was not about the deaths of innocent children but the 1967 Yom Kippur war. The children that die in military conflicts are due to Hamas putting its rocket firing batteries in schools and kindergartens. Israelis don't have a policy of purposely attacking children. That policy is reserved for Taliban, Al Q'aeda, Boko Haram, Al Shabab and Hamas -- all of whom belong to a certain way of thinking.
And .. if killing children is so bad, why the suicide bomber attacks on pizza parlors in Israel where children died?
I didn't say Jordan occupying the West Bank was bad -- I stated that no Palestinian whined as long as Jordan was occupying. The whine started only after Israel soundly defeated the Pan-Arab forces and "kicked major ass."
Israel has always returned lands confiscated during the Yom Kippur war in treaties with Egypt and Jordan.
Why would Israel return the lands to a violent group hell bent on Israel's destruction without a treaty with a solid and reliable partner and threaten its own existence?
Hamas is a terrorist organization and will not abide by any peace treaty. Hamas has actually said that they will use any peace with Israel to get militarily and economically stronger to come and fight another day.
Like I said before - Palestinians need to clean house and become a stable, reliable partner that can abide by treaties. Unfortunately, they can't even abide by their own ceasefires!
PS - calling me an "imp" reflects poorly on you.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)The only poor reflection in this exchange is on you. From making false accusations in yr first post, right through to continually trying to absolve Israel of any responsibility whatsoever.
While Israel (btw the terrorist groups you mentioned don't have policies on anything to the best of my knowledge) doesn't have a policy of purposely attacking children, they also don't do anything to avoid hitting children with their missiles and bombs. For example when they dropped a bomb on an apartment complex one night a few years ago under the pretext of going after one wanted militant, they knew that there were civilians asleep and still went ahead and did it. You may find that acceptable, but I find it no more acceptable than if the roles were reversed and the Palestinians did that to Israelis.
It's telling that you consider Palestinians who express opposition to the occupation of their land by Israel to be merely whining. I suspect if you were living somewhere where a foreign force occupied where you lived, took yr land, made it difficult for you to get from one place to another, attacked yr family with impunity, and imposed different laws for you than citizens of its own territory, you may be slightly more sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinian people.
Uh, who's asking Israel to return land to Hamas? It's the PA that Israel has to deal with, remember?
And like I said before, it's not just the Palestinians who need to clean house. It's Israel as well, who also needs to do all the things yr so quick to only criticise the Palestinians
Imp? Hehe, that's the auto-correct on this tablet. It does weird things. In future I'll stop being lazy and type 'In My Opinion'. Though when you come to think of it, it is kind of cute you object to that typo after having accused me of supporting the likes of ISIS...
It's not like we're overflowing with budget surpluses in the US. Why give money to regressive governments?
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)This needs to be pointed out repeatedly before a knee-jerk support of the mess that the Palestinian leadership is.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)no matter what horror show they do, there are people here who will ignore every atrocity, crime and murder against jews, gay Palestinians and women including acid attacks and honor killings, there are people who will never address this insanity and defend them.
just see above.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)Two teenage Palestinian girls were killed in separate incidents last month in so-called "honour killings", revenge attacks carried out most often by family members against women suspected of "immoral sexual conduct".
The deaths sparked protests with more than 100 people assembling outside the general attorney's office in Gaza on March 3, demanding violence against Palestinian women come to a halt. Five women died in honour killings in the Palestinian territories in 2011. That number rose to 13 in 2012 and doubled to 26 last year.
"For the past three years, the number of women killed have increased each year," said Mariam Abu al-Atta, coordinator of the Amal Coalition to Combat Violence Against Women, at the recent demonstration. "Today we are here to stop these crimes. Criminals should be punished by law."
But the day after the protest, another woman, Samah Bader, was stabbed to death by her husband in their apartment in Ramallah in the occupied West Bank. She became the eighth woman killed in the Palestinian territories since the beginning of the year - raising concerns the deadly trend will continue to spiral upwards.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/03/upsurge-palestinian-honour-killings-gaza-201432372831899701.html
and the so-called Palestinian government couldn't give a rats a$$
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)many of whose leaders are violent terrorists and who want to bring back 11th century version of culture with misogyny and intolerance.
Yes, Israel may be holding land for ransom in the hopes of a lasting peace and building illegal settlements in the hopes of pressuring the peace process (neither of which I support in the absolute.) However, what options does Israel have?
The land was won fair and square during a war (the goal of which was to destroy Israel for good) and a war that was imposed on Israel. Israel didn't start that war.
Israel has a great track record of giving back land and abiding by peace treaties that it executed with Egypt and Jordan. So it is not like Israel is averse to peace with stable and reliable partners and nor is Israel averse to giving back the land.
Palestinians want to have their cake and eat it too. If they started the fucked up war and lost, the resulting occupation was self-inflicted. It is like a guy blaming the gun after shooting himself in the foot.
Isn't this obvious to the "underdog phenomenon" supporters of Hamas on DU?
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Submitting Information
To submit information about alleged crimes, please write to:
International Criminal Court
Office of the Prosecutor
Communications
Post Office Box 19519
2500 CM The Hague
The Netherlands.
http://www.icc-cpi.int/en_menus/icc/Pages/default.aspx
1step
(380 posts)Aren't we?
Johnny Rash
(227 posts)
Baaaaaaaaad doggy! Bad! Bad!