What Is Conservatism and What Is Wrong with It?
http://polaris.gseis.ucla.edu/pagre/conservatism.html
Liberals in the United States have been losing political debates to conservatives for a quarter century. In order to start winning again, liberals must answer two simple questions: what is conservatism, and what is wrong with it? As it happens, the answers to these questions are also simple:
Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.
Q: What is wrong with conservatism?
A: Conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.
These ideas are not new. Indeed they were common sense until recently. Nowadays, though, most of the people who call themselves "conservatives" have little notion of what conservatism even is. They have been deceived by one of the great public relations campaigns of human history. Only by analyzing this deception will it become possible to revive democracy in the United States.
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valerief
(53,235 posts)sharing--wealth across all classes.
I know, these aren't official definitions. They're just my own way of thinking of these words.
grilled onions
(1,957 posts)I've got mine(and I am going to keep it) and I don't care if you ever get yours. Corporations rule. The little guy is looked upon as a fool and a leech because he does not always carry his own load. They look down upon the minimum wage earners,renters(or worse)always the minorities get less respect. It's country club mentality all the way.
The Stranger
(11,297 posts)Instead of developing an argument from the general premise to the specific to conclusion, this author keeps restating his conclusion over and over.
HOW does conservatism dominate society, and how does it get society to go along?
Centrist1984
(32 posts)The author has a tinker toy understanding of conservatism I'd say. There are different types of conservatism. The old European conservatism was about preserving an aristocracy. Modern conservatism in America has nothing to do with aristocracy and in fact is all about undermining such a thing. It is very much compatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization; indeed, much of democracy, prosperity, and civilization could not exist without basic principles that conservatives fundamentally believe in. It is far from being a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception. I could easily make such a statement about modern liberalism if I wanted to similarly oversimplify it.
gopiscrap
(23,758 posts)Centrist1984
(32 posts)Thank you.
gopiscrap
(23,758 posts)hope you have a fun time here and that we can all learn from one another!
Same!
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)JayhawkSD
(3,163 posts)A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.
Actually: belief in the value of established and traditional practices in politics and society
Or: dislike of change or new ideas in a particular area
Centrist1984
(32 posts)Even those definitions I'd say are overly-simplistic. They fit certain types of conservatives, but not conservatism itself, which is more broad. I mean I am sure that there are established and traditional practices in politics and society that liberals belief fervently in too. And a hallmark of conservative belief is belief in constant change, i.e. hence the belief in democratic government and free markets. Conservatism believes in preservation of the core institutions that allow this constant change to occur however.
JayhawkSD
(3,163 posts)Just because a party adds flourishes to what it advicates does not change the core principle.
Actually, today's conservatives are not conservatives at all because the do not strive to preserve the existing socioeconomic order, they seek to unravel it and return to the order which preceeded it, and that is reactionism, not conservatism.
The true conservativatists today are most of what call themselves liberals, because they mostly advocate the preservation of the existing social order in the form of Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, increases in existing government regulation, "free trade" agreements and low taxes.
The liberals are most of those who call themselves libertarians, with their exchewment of "free trade" agreements and such.
Centrist1984
(32 posts)Just because a party adds flourishes to what it advicates does not change the core principle.
Actually, today's conservatives are not conservatives at all because the do not strive to preserve the existing socioeconomic order, they seek to unravel it and return to the order which preceeded it, and that is reactionism, not conservatism.
I don't know if I'd say that's reactionism. Hardcore conservatives do not agree with aspects of the social welfare state for fiscal reasons and also because they believe (wrongly I think) that the private sector can replace such things.
The true conservativatists today are most of what call themselves liberals, because they mostly advocate the preservation of the existing social order in the form of Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, increases in existing government regulation, "free trade" agreements and low taxes.
My understanding is that liberals do not like free trade much or low taxes much. They do seek to preserve existing core components of the social welfare state. I don't know if that makes them "conservative" though. One can see how these words "liberal" and "conservative" get tricky.
The liberals are most of those who call themselves libertarians, with their exchewment of "free trade" agreements and such.
I think you have a misunderstanding of what libertarians believe in. Libertarians are generally all about free trade.
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)But conservatives aren't interested in debate, simply in seizing power - and they do it well because it's all they care about.
What is conservatism? Simply, malignant narcissism elaborated into a political ideology. Nothing more.
Centrist1984
(32 posts)This statement is just wrong on so many levels. For one, conservatives are very interested in debate. As for power, both parties desire power and both have good and bad people. Conservatism has little to do with narcissism.
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)Conservatives capable of adhering to even the simplest principles of rational thought and honest discourse are exceedingly rare in my experience, and even they typically have some kind of mental block that won't allow them to examine their own values and opinions critically.
And as for "good and bad conservatives," just because someone is not evil on every level does not make them good. These are people with truly heinous attitudes toward their fellow human beings, who excuse or even vehemently support crimes against humanity and wish to see liberty and democracy replaced with some form of monarchy, military dictatorship, plutocracy, or theocracy. That doesn't just happen on the part of "good" people, like some normal character flaw - they're rotten, bigoted, self-absorbed people whose casuistry causes them to behave with decency only in arbitrary cases where they feel like it.
Plenty of Klansmen who hanged "uppity" black folks in front of their families loved their own wives and children and were great and loyal friends. Plenty of Nazi commanders too. Plenty of medieval knights who would decapitate a peasant for looking at them insolently were "honorable" people, charitable givers to the church, and treated their feudal peers with respect. Evil is evil.
Doesn't matter under how many layers of politesse and superficial geniality you bury their malevolence, it still reveals itself whenever they make decisions that matter concerning other people. They could be a shiny, happy, smiley person hosting picnics in their community, but then you ask them about the life of a person far away from them, who looks different than they do, their face changes into a rictus of contempt and they practically spit out their opinion that this person should DIE rather than expect healthcare paid for in part with their tax money.
And saying that conservatism has little to do with narcissism...have you actually ever met a conservative? Their politics are nothing but narcissism, and a symmetrical contempt for all people and all things that differ from themselves.
Centrist1984
(32 posts)Conservatives capable of adhering to even the simplest principles of rational thought and honest discourse are exceedingly rare in my experience, and even they typically have some kind of mental block that won't allow them to examine their own values and opinions critically.
I think you might have a limited amount of experience with conservatives then. The definition that you wrote of conservatism is that of one who has a strawman understanding of conservatism. It might be good to read some books by various conservative scholars on issues to better understand their POVs on subjects.
And as for "good and bad conservatives," just because someone is not evil on every level does not make them good. These are people with truly heinous attitudes toward their fellow human beings, who excuse or even vehemently support crimes against humanity and wish to see liberty and democracy replaced with some form of monarchy, military dictatorship, plutocracy, or theocracy.
Like I said, this is the classic strawman caricature of the conservative. That they are evil, want authoritarian government of some kind, do not care about their fellow humans, etc...there are ultra social conservatives that want to mix church and state to an excessive degree, but that is like saying that there are some ultra-liberal types who want to make the whole country actually socialist. Such so-called "conservatives" do not realize how their own wishing to mix church and state violate basic conservative principles.
As it is, I can tell you that your claim that conservatives hate liberty and democracy would make most conservatives heads spin, especially as many of them claim it is the political Left that hate liberty and democracy (for example, when you get people like Thomas Friedman waxing philosophic about China or when you get the hand-wringing over right to free speech that happened from many on the left after that video was produced that supposedly caused the Benghazi attack). I am not saying the Left wish to have authoritarianism, just that the finger can be pointed either way depending on which portion one is pointing to. Conservatism itself is about as opposite of authoritarianism as one can get.
For example, one reason conservatives believe so much in free market capitalism is because historically, political freedom is tied to economic freedom. This is also why they vehemently oppose government control over healthcare, because healthcare is about 16% of the economy, and thus government taking control of it means a sizeable reduction in economic freedom (now many would disagree with this in various ways, but it is a concern many conservatives have). As for helping one's fellow human, that is actually a core tenet of conservatism. What many on the Left confuse is that if conservatives do not support proposals for various government programs meant to help people, then it means that they do not care about such people (this unto itself is a whole other discussion).
That doesn't just happen on the part of "good" people, like some normal character flaw - they're rotten, bigoted, self-absorbed people whose casuistry causes them to behave with decency only in arbitrary cases where they feel like it.
Plenty of Klansmen who hanged "uppity" black folks in front of their families loved their own wives and children and were great and loyal friends. Plenty of Nazi commanders too. Plenty of medieval knights who would decapitate a peasant for looking at them insolently were "honorable" people, charitable givers to the church, and treated their feudal peers with respect. Evil is evil.
Sure. But modern conservatism is not evil.
Doesn't matter under how many layers of politesse and superficial geniality you bury their malevolence, it still reveals itself whenever they make decisions that matter concerning other people. They could be a shiny, happy, smiley person hosting picnics in their community, but then you ask them about the life of a person far away from them, who looks different than they do, their face changes into a rictus of contempt and they practically spit out their opinion that this person should DIE rather than expect healthcare paid for in part with their tax money.
And saying that conservatism has little to do with narcissism...have you actually ever met a conservative? Their politics are nothing but narcissism, and a symmetrical contempt for all people and all things that differ from themselves.
Sure I have met them. But like I said, read some books on conservatism. It is about as anti-narcissistic as one can get. And has nothing to do with contempt for people.
JayhawkSD
(3,163 posts)Some people have a mind set that consists simply of "conservatives are evil." They will not listen to any discussion which counters their core value, and can come up with countless "arguments" to bolster it. They takes the position that "my mind is made up, do not pester me with arguments."
The Stranger
(11,297 posts)And, on second thought, that could be evil, actually.
polynomial
(750 posts)The majority of Conservatives, and those big tent types that could fold and leave all else behind, or continue the circus act especially lie like hell in the closing days of an election need attention to details. We all should know what kind of laws are going on the books.
We all now witness that in breaking news supported by modern media, it is a revenue generator for the one percent, but ignored by the judicial for the cultural slander that poison the goals in a natural order that should exist but does not then tends to induce chaos.
That is a basic element to grow tyranny. Tranny is here and it is self- evident.
Some of the Democrats, those so called blue dogs, of today don’t fit into that social spectra either. Thus, the saying many vote against their needs.
It’s sort of like who is the next crook to be elected. Or giving the benefit of the doubt when that good person gets elected when will they get sucked into corruption.
We finally have figured out that billionaires and millionaires are not really good leaders for the middle class and the poor in a government position. For business it expected for men of that sort to be creeps, Romney examples that.
This is really characterized in the election in Illinois for Governor and the Senate. Especially, the Senate where this millionaire, Oberweis is running against Durbin.
Just the other day Oberweis makes a political advertisement that Durbin broke the government but didn’t say how. It’s intriguing to me how Durbin singled handedly messed up the Illinois government and did not go to jail behind Blagojevich.
Here is a milk business man, an honorable trade in that it is a product that everyone needs, yet how in in the world could Oberweis make so much money selling his milk in half gallon glass containers at three dollars per a bottle. I tried the milk and it taste like any other. If there is some special super ingredient Oberweis uses he never advertised it. Or his cows are special, maybe he sings to them while they are milking I don’t know.
It is for sure that milk is not designed for the poor or the middle class. That says a lot about how Oberweis is as a Conservative. That begs the question is his business philosophy special food for a special class of people. In all likely hood Oberweis will legislate the same way. I wonder if he ever sold his milk under a different label to Aldi’s? Or does Oberweis drink beer out of a can? I don’t think so…