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davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
Fri Oct 17, 2014, 02:38 AM Oct 2014

Let's change the way we choose the vice president

For a long time after that, the parties chose presidential and vice presidential nominees by separate ballots, having nothing to do with one another. We were well into the 20th century before presidential candidates, beginning with Franklin Roosevelt, started hand picking their understudies and asking their parties to sign off.

From then on, the vice presidency evolved into an anomalous contradiction in a country that prides itself in coming as close to Athenian democracy as anyone since the Athenians. Our second-highest elected official, next in line for the presidency, is essentially deeded the office by another politician.

This led to some awkward transitions of power in the last century, the most disconcerting of which involved the Nixon administration. Nixon's first vice president, Spiro Agnew, had to resign early in his second term after it was revealed he had taken bribes during his time as Maryland's governor. His replacement, Gerald Ford, assumed the Oval Office after Nixon himself was consumed in scandal.

snip

Now comes Bauer, a pioneer in modern election law who has been thinking hard these past few years about reform generally. Bauer and his respected Republican counterpart, Ben Ginsberg, recently led a commission charged with updating the democracy, mainly by figuring out how to fix this bizarre patchwork of polling places and voting machines.

And it occurred to Bauer that somehow our notion of democratic reform always ignored the oddity of the vice presidency. "We talk about money and the voting processes and all of that, and these are legitimate issues about the responsibility and accountability of the political process," he told me. "But it does seem to me that this is a glaring hole."

Bauer, I note again, is a Democrat, and he loses no sleep over the office's current occupant; he's a Joe Biden fan. His fears, as you might expect, stem from watching another recent vice president, Dick Cheney, and an even more recent nominee, Sarah Palin. Both of them, he contends, embody important changes in the nature of the vice presidency in recent years.

The first is that the modern vice president, beginning really with Al Gore, has a very different brief than what was historically considered the purview of the office — which was pretty much nothing. "There's a general agreement that the office has become more important now than it was 50 or 100 years ago," Bauer says. "We now expect the vice president to be a full partner of the president in policy, not just to be an emergency replacement."

And this makes a No. 2 far more influential than anyone considered Agnew or Ford. Cheney amassed his own national security operation as vice president, which, according to the exhaustive account by my former colleague Peter Baker, exerted a stunningly powerful pull on George W. Bush's first term in office and, by extension, on this entire era of American foreign policy.

Second, vice presidents are now chosen by different criteria than they were in the days when party leaders were mostly concerned with geographic and ideological balance. With social media and scripted campaigns and a new poll coming out every 12 minutes, a nominee is just as often trying to captivate some narrow slice of the electorate or redirect the news cycle for a couple of weeks, even though the ramifications of that decision will be with us for years.

snip

You could make the point, as I did to Bauer, that such decisions have a way of correcting themselves, since, at the end of the day, the choice of Palin for craven political reasons almost certainly hurt McCain more than it helped. But Bauer argues that was an unusual case and that, in the vast majority of elections, voters pay little attention to the No. 2 spot on the ticket. Two words: Dan Quayle.

I find this persuasive. The question, of course, is what kind of system we would propose the parties should use rather than the one they have. Bauer hasn't gotten that far.

Maybe you give the No. 2 slot to the candidate in your party with the second-most delegates. (Sure, the president and vice president might not get along, but you know, John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson couldn't stand the sight of each other, and we've done worse.) Or maybe you force candidates to name their running mates as part of a slate in the primaries, so the voters have a chance to judge the ticket as a whole before casting their primary ballots.

http://news.yahoo.com/let-s-change-the-way-we-choose-the-vice-president-084241482.html

5 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Let's change the way we choose the vice president (Original Post) davidpdx Oct 2014 OP
The idea of forcing a candidate to name his choice of VP before primaries djean111 Oct 2014 #1
I agree with you on the second place part of the idea davidpdx Oct 2014 #2
Alarmingly, people voted for Bush/Quayle knowing bvf Oct 2014 #3
I'm not sure we should even have a VP. LuvNewcastle Oct 2014 #4
I think Biden does quite a bit davidpdx Oct 2014 #5
 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
1. The idea of forcing a candidate to name his choice of VP before primaries
Fri Oct 17, 2014, 04:40 AM
Oct 2014

seems somewhat viable, but giving the spot to the second place finisher really just sidelines someone who could have just gone back to being effective in Congress or as a governor or in private life. IMO the duties and the powers of the VP would have to be enhanced if it went to the runner-up. Also, being VP - could that hamper a person from running against the president in the next election?

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
2. I agree with you on the second place part of the idea
Fri Oct 17, 2014, 05:04 AM
Oct 2014

And many people wouldn't want to be play second fiddle to whomever the candidate is. What if the candidate who wins has views that the person in second place can live with (or visa versa). If the second place finisher wanted to say no they would be stuck between offending the person who won and potentially pissing away their future chances at running if the ticket lost.

The problem with picking their running mate before is the potential for collusion between candidates.

I do agree with the article that the whole thing is outdated.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
3. Alarmingly, people voted for Bush/Quayle knowing
Fri Oct 17, 2014, 05:31 AM
Oct 2014

full well the potential consequences. Same's true for those who would have put Sarah Palin one apoplectic fit over not being able to bomb someone to smithereens away from the Oval Office.

Surely they understood basic civics.

Wait--what am I saying?

Hell, Dick Cheney spent eight years leading this country and nobody who voted for Shrub seemed to mind.

All food for thought. Personally, I think that offering up either of these yahoos (one, a joke--the other, scary as hell) to their constituencies independent of the top of the ticket would not have made that much difference. Did it matter that Palin was shown to be an inarticulate, unread opportunist? Cheney, a war profiteer fresh from his last gig?

LuvNewcastle

(16,856 posts)
4. I'm not sure we should even have a VP.
Fri Oct 17, 2014, 06:00 AM
Oct 2014

About all they're good for is going to funerals and breaking ties in the Senate. If we're going to have one, I think they should be elected separately. Let a Pres. candidate endorse a particular VP candidate or vice versa if they like, but it should be the people's choice who gets the office. It's really up to the Pres. how much power the VP has anyway, so if the Pres. doesn't like the winner, he doesn't have to include him in the decision-making process.

It seems to me that we should have more official duties for the VP if we're going to have one, though. Paying someone to sit around and wait for the Pres. to die or become incapacitated doesn't make much sense to me. Let the Speaker of the House or the Senate pro tem be next in line.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
5. I think Biden does quite a bit
Fri Oct 17, 2014, 07:01 AM
Oct 2014

He certainly wouldn't have accepted if it had been a matter of having someone with a pulse as VP. If you read the article, the author argues that the VP is more important these days then before and that's why we should look at changing how that person is picked. I agree there is always more that could be give to the VP to do, but then how much power do you want the VP to have. Look at how much power Cheney had. It was a ridiculous abuse of the office. So there can be extremes one way or the other (the VP with a pulse versus Cheney without one). Given the threat of terrorism or some nutbar with a gun attempting to jump a fence at the WH, I feel more comfortable with someone as VP.

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