Why is the West Spoiling for a Fight with Russia?
What are the consequences when elected governments make policy based on faith and imperial hubris instead of science and expertise? Its a question that is forcing itself on the world as we watch the United States, Britain, NATO and the Harper government continue to up the ante in the confrontation with Russia over the Ukraine. There are real enough geo-political dangers in the world without actually creating them out of arrogance and ignorance but that is where we are right now and the consequences could be catastrophic.
Canada, Britain, the U.S. and the boys with their toys in NATO headquarters are looking for a fight with Russia. Throughout the confrontation and provocations these protagonists treat Russia as if it is some insignificant middle power that can be provoked with impunity. That is just dangerously stupid and stupidity is something the West can ill-afford given all its internal problems economic stagnation, unsustainable inequality, collapsing infrastructure.
It is almost a truism that most politicians are, if not stupid, then woefully uninformed about the myriad of complex issues they have to deal with on a daily basis. Traditionally (going back millennia), it has been the job of the civil services to make them look smarter than they are and they do that by rooting public policy in science and history. It is the job of professionals to bring to bear all the facts, nuances and consequences of policy initiatives. This is especially true of foreign policy and the nuanced determination of the national interest.
https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/why-is-the-west-spoiling-for-a-fight-with-russia
DJ13
(23,671 posts)elleng
(130,895 posts)Russia, more likely Putin, is 'spoiling for a fight,' and if he keeps insisting, he'll get it from an otherwise reluctant West.
You know it's "the west" that's been building military bases and placing missiles all around Russia, and expanding its explicitly anti-Russian military alliance right up to Russia's borders, right?
Russia's not a "victim," but it's not as if "the west' has been minding its own business, either.
elleng
(130,895 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Also, this is one of the stupidest fucking things I've ever seen the man say.
Wow.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)Do they really believe their schtick? I suppose they must be counting on Westerners not knowing where in Ukraine Odessa is or anything about the region.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)elleng
(130,895 posts)Some apparently prefer to think THE WEST chooses to indulge in 'dramatics.'
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Or is this another one of the useful idiot dudebros who still denies Russian forces ever crossed the border??
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)Why won't you just split the world into "good" and "evil" and pick a side?
OMG, that's so cool: You will get to fight an evil empire and you will know the truth while everybody else will be sheeple because you are awesome and special. All the other people out there are mindless drones who will believe anything the empire tells them, but you are a critical free spirit who will believe nothing the empire tells you and anything the rebels tell you.
Important: BYOS*
* Bring Your Own Lightsaber
pretzel4gore
(8,146 posts)we are their only effective enemy-everything they do, have done since JFK assasination, was to confound and confuse the 1/3rd of electorate who aren't outright leftwing or rightwing-the doofuses in the middle. They actually believed the crap about Saddam and Iraq though Iraq military budet was smaller then was spent yearly in Alabama. Thus, truth must be kept under wraps and the mass media, the Pigmedia, has proven effective ...you and everyone who does not vote rightwing all the time , is the real enemy of mr pig. and he truly hate us. The 'big lies ' started at end of WW2- the revolution, even imperfect as the USSR was, had to be quietly destroyed, and the people HAD TO do the deed. Think for a moment- after losing 20 million people, 1/3rd of its industry, and scratching by on every front, why did USSR want to get into a 'cold' war with wealthy west, or an arms race, or indeed anything? The USSR wanted postwar Germany left united so it could recover faster and pay vast reparations to victims etc But NOOOO. And who did the info media blame the split up of Germany on? Iow, who has caused ALL the conflict since end of WW2? The USSR, that's who.... The revolution ended with collapse of USSR in 1991. And, fascism still needs wars....wars are profitable (natch, the Russians won't use nukes, neither will we, so the danger is small)
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)The soviet Army started setting up Soviets (communist councils) in their occupation-zone AND initiated an information blockade against the rest of Germany. That blockade, that is the original "Iron Curtain". The only united Germany Stalin wanted was a soviet one. That's why the western part of Germany was pressured into forming a new country: To keep it out of the hands of the Soviets.
And I wouldn't call the communist revolution in Russia imperfect: a bloody civil war, failed agrarian policies leading to famines killing millions of Russians, coordinated mass-starvation in Ukraine, forced emigration of the Crimean Tartars, terror and executions against Russia's own citizens, the unaccountable czar replaced with an unaccountable dictator... "Imperfect" doesn't seem the right word to me.
Leontius
(2,270 posts)LawnKorn
(1,137 posts)These companies lead the way for the Military Industrial Complex
1 Lockheed Martin
2 Boeing
3 BAE Systems
4 Raytheon
5 Northrop Grumman
6 General Dynamics
7 Airbus Group
8 United Technologies
9 Thales
10 Finmeccanica
11 L-3 Communications
12 Almaz-Antey
13 Huntington Ingalls Industries
14 Rolls-Royce
15 Honeywell
16 DCNS
17 Textron
18 Booz Allen Hamilton
18 GE
20 Exelis
21 Leidos
22 Hewlett-Packard
23 Safran
24 Babcock International
25 Russian Helicopters
26 Mitsubishi Heavy Industries
27 Oshkosh
28 Rheinmetall
29 Saab
30 Elbit Systems
31 SAIC
32 CACI International8
33 URS
34 United Engine-Building
35 Israel Aerospace Industries
36 Bechtel
37 ATK
38 DynCorp
39 Hindustan Aeronautics
40 Harris
41 CSC
42 Rockwell Collins
43 ManTech
44 Fluor
45 General Atomics
46 Aviation Holding Co. Sukhoi
47 Serco
48 Rafael Advanced Defense Systems
49 ST Engineering
50 Dassault Aviation
51 Cobham
52 Concern Radio-Electronic Technologies
53 Fincantieri
54 GenCorp
55 Korea Aerospace Industries
56 Irkut
57 Kongsberg
58 QinetiQ
59 Mitsubishi Electric
60 Embraer
61 Krauss-Maffei Wegmann
62 LIG Nex
63 Nexter
64 Patria
65 Meggitt
66 Kawasaki Heavy Industries
67 Aselsan
68 GKN Aerospace
69 Chemring
70 Samsung Techwin
71 RSK MiG
72 Accenture
73 Moog
74 Bharat Electronics
75 NEC
76 Cubic
77 AAR
78 RTI
79 Alion Science and Technology
80 Turkish Aerospace Industries
81 CAE
82 Curtiss-Wright
83 Ruag
84 Diehl Defence Holding
85 PAE
86 Ultra Electronics
87 Indra
88 Ball Aerospace & Technologies
89 Wyle
90 FLIR
91 Battelle
92 Jacobs Engineering
93 ViaSat
94 Israel Military Industries
95 Navistar
96 Nammo
97 Day & Zimmermann
98 IHI
99 Mission Essential
100 Griffon
Note:
- Eight of the companies are Russian
Almaz-Antey
Russian Helicopters
United Engine-Building
Aviation Holding Co. Sukhoi
Concern Radio-Electronic Technologies
Irkut
RSK MiG
RTI
CullenBohannon
(64 posts)This is insanity.
GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)and count the profits.