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applegrove

(118,642 posts)
Sat Feb 11, 2017, 05:56 PM Feb 2017

The Science of Flow Says Extreme Inequality Causes Economic Collapse

The Science of Flow Says Extreme Inequality Causes Economic Collapse

By Sally Goerner at Evonomics

http://evonomics.com/science-flow-says-extreme-inequality-causes-economic-collapse/

"SNIP.......

Institutional economists talk about two main types of economic strategies: extractive and solution-seeking. (Hopefully, these names are self-explanatory.) Most economies contain both. But, if the extractive forces become too powerful, they begin to use their power to rig the rules of the economic game to favor themselves. This creates what scientists call a positive feedback loop, one in which “the more you have, the more you get.” Seen in many kinds of systems, this loop creates a powerful pull that sucks resources to the top, and drains it away from the rest of the system causing necrosis. For example, chemical runoff into the Gulf of Mexico accelerates algae growth. This creates an escalating, “the more you have, the more you get” process, in which massive algae growth sucks up all the oxygen in the surrounding area, killing all of the nearby sea life (fish, shrimp, etc.) and creating a large “dead zone.”

......

Neoliberal economics set up a parallel situation by allowing the wealthy to use their money to extract ever more money from the overall economy. The uber-wealthy grow wealthier by:

Paying for policy favors – big corporate bailouts and subsidies; lobbying; etc.
Removing constraints on dangerous behavior – removing environmental protections; not prosecuting financial fraud offenders; ending Glass-Steagall, etc.
Increasing the public’s vulnerability – increasing monopolistic power by diminishing antitrust regulations; limiting the public’s ability to sue big corporations; limiting Medicare’s ability to negotiate for lower pharmaceutical rates; limiting bankruptcy for student loans, etc.
Increasing their own intake – rising CEO salaries and escalating Wall Street gambling; and limiting their own outflows – externalizing costs, cutting worker wages and lowering their own taxes.
All of these processes help the already rich concentrate more, and circulate less. In flow terms, therefore, gross inequality indicates a system that has: 1) too much concentration and too little circulation; and 2) an imbalance of wealth and power that is likely to create ever more extraction, concentration, unaccountability, and abuse. This process accelerates until the underlying human network becomes exhausted and/or the ongoing necrosis reaches a point of collapse. When this point is reached, the society will have three choices: learn, regress, or collapse.

What then shall we do? Obviously, we need to improve our “solution seeking” behavior in realms from business and finance to politics and media. Much of this is already taking place. From socially-responsible business and alternative forms of ownership, to democratic reform groups, alternative media, and the new economy movement – reforms are arising on all sides.


..........SNIP"

9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Science of Flow Says Extreme Inequality Causes Economic Collapse (Original Post) applegrove Feb 2017 OP
No sh*t, sherlock! elleng Feb 2017 #1
How Democrats Went From Being the Party of the People to the Party of Rich Elites elleng Feb 2017 #2
An engaging simple graphic of this could illuminate the situation to tRump voters. JudyM Feb 2017 #3
+1 nt riderinthestorm Feb 2017 #4
Kick! JudyM Feb 2017 #5
With all due respect, what is the "science" involved here? NT mahatmakanejeeves Feb 2017 #6
That there is order in chaos. And you applegrove Feb 2017 #7
Yeah, but this is economics. mahatmakanejeeves Feb 2017 #8
Think the the assumption that applegrove Feb 2017 #9

elleng

(130,895 posts)
2. How Democrats Went From Being the Party of the People to the Party of Rich Elites
Sat Feb 11, 2017, 06:08 PM
Feb 2017

Thomas Frank
Democrats have gone from the party of the New Deal to a party that is defending mass inequality.

'The Democratic Party was once the party of the New Deal and the ally of organized labor. But by the time of Bill Clinton's presidency, it had become the enemy of New Deal programs like welfare and Social Security and the champion of free trade deals. What explains this apparent reversal? Thomas Frank—best known for his analysis of the Republican Party base in What's the Matter with Kansas?—attempts to answer this question in his latest book, Listen Liberal: Or, What Ever Happened to the Party of the People?'

http://inthesetimes.com/article/19084/listen-liberal-thomas-frank-democratic-party-elites-inequality

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016154051

JudyM

(29,236 posts)
3. An engaging simple graphic of this could illuminate the situation to tRump voters.
Sun Feb 12, 2017, 12:06 PM
Feb 2017

So many of them just don't get it. If widely disseminated, this could make a real difference in the public dialogue. We Dems are too wordy to get our points across to that whole crowd.

applegrove

(118,642 posts)
7. That there is order in chaos. And you
Mon Feb 13, 2017, 08:49 PM
Feb 2017

should go with that. Markets are organic are they not? Repeated patterns on different scales make all benefit in an ecosystem. Look up fractals. They are everywhere: in space, nature, geology, human brains, economies, etc.

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,437 posts)
8. Yeah, but this is economics.
Mon Feb 13, 2017, 09:07 PM
Feb 2017

Last edited Tue Feb 14, 2017, 10:51 AM - Edit history (2)

I know it's called the dismal science, and I know it's considered a social science.

But there's science, and there's "science."

Also, can you cite an example of a fractal in economics?

Yes, I am in an argumentative mood, as I got to read earlier today that Stephen Miller is the "engineer" of something or other at the White House. Yet, but he was a political science major.

I now get to read about the "science" of flow in economics. I know what fluid mechanics is, and I know what economics is. I'm doubting that ever the twain shall meet.

I would like to see more precision in word usage. I'm not going after you; I'm going after whoever came up with the term the "science of flow."

I think that if people want to consider themselves scientists or engineers, they should at least take the courses.

I'd issue a waiver for Henry Ford and the Wright brothers and people who came up the hard way. They may not ever have had engineering degrees, but they earned their knowledge the hard way.

It's a global thing. That's all.

Thanks.

ETA: I'm being logged off, so I'm not ignoring you. I've lost my time.

Thanks again.

applegrove

(118,642 posts)
9. Think the the assumption that
Mon Feb 13, 2017, 09:34 PM
Feb 2017

Last edited Tue Feb 14, 2017, 12:25 AM - Edit history (3)

'given perfect information' people will act to maximize their benefit. This is one main assumptiin underlying economics. How do you give people perfect information? Libraries, good schools, universities, public think tanks, government. All disseminating information to various groups in self similar ways. If you only get charter schools that effectively only tell children things they would need to know to vote republican then you are messing with who will grow up to be creative and create more jobs. If you shut down government information and statistics like they did in Canada you are ensuring only the rich can afford think thank information and small business cannot be well informed. That is great for really rich people who want a weak middle class who will not be able to challenge them or their power. But you have killed future productivity. Think of Betsy Devos shutting down the information of learning disabilities on the website her first week in office. Know who make up 1/3 or MIT students or half of NASA? Dyslexics. So you want to harness every single dyslexic with a high IQ and put them into the economy. Point is these schools and libraries and government information have evolved organically over hundreds of years. Used to be you had to find a man who would mentor you and had a library to be educated. My great grandfather had young men come into his home after dinner to sit in his library and discuss events and history. That was what you did before university was available to all. Then maybe you got a reccomendation and got to attend. Point is that ways to get people informed have organized over the milenia to make for robust and informed people going into the job market or any market. And that is what makes markets work. Works the same in finance. My great great great grandfather from another branch had a salaried position and a farm. If so and so down the street helped fixed his roof he wanted her to give him that loan (he wrote to his wife in a letter we still have). That is how finance started out. A couple of generations later someone went to my grandfather and said I know some men who were researching communications in Ottawa during the war. They like Ottawa and they want to stay. Do you know anyone who has money who could help them start. My grandfather told his cousins who had money. They did the venture capital on high tech before there was venture capital (an when high tech was in its infancy). Then banking evolved and venture capital evolved to become a concrete thing rather than just luck or who you knew ( same form but on a lesser scale). And the economy booms for people who have great ideas that get funded. There is a market of bankers for them. And people are much better informed. Information is the biggest commodity in markets along with money. We have evolved in repeated form but on different scales to more efficiently allocate information and money. Markets work better. But the GOP doesn't want that. It seems to me.

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