Is Trump Planning a Coup d'tat?
Many observersincluding Republicansworry that he is. Theyre organizing now to stop him.
By Sasha Abramsky
SEPTEMBER 7, 2020
Illustration by Victor Juhasz.
This summer, shortly after scores of camo-wearing, heavily armed federal agents descended on Portland, Ore., to attack protesters, Charles Fried, Ronald Reagans solicitor general, pondered the implications of what he was seeing on the streets. What he saw scared him; he remembered the use of paramilitaries by fascist leaders in 1930s Europe, where he was born, and he feared he was now witnessing a slide into paramilitarism in the United States. (His family fled the Nazi occupation of Czechoslovakia.) Fried felt that President Trump was using the Department of Homeland Security and other government agencies in a way that was very menacing. You might as well put brown shirts on them. Its a very bad thing.
A Harvard Law School professor who still counts himself as a Republican and a board member of groups such as the Campaign Legal Center, Checks and Balances, and Republicans for the Rule of Law, Fried has grown increasingly worried in recent months about Trumps willingness to stir chaos and violence as an electoral strategy in the run-up to Novembers vote and about the willingness of his attorney general, William Barr, to burn the countrys democratic institutions to the ground to preserve this administrations hold on power. Like earlier authoritarians, Trump could, Fried fears, utilize agents provocateurs, getting right-wing people to infiltrate left-oriented and by-and-large peaceful demonstrations to turn them violent to thereby justify intervention.
Fried, a student of history who chooses his words carefully, has concluded that Trump and his team are certainly racist, contemptuous of ordinary democratic and constitutional norms, and they believe their cause, their interests, are really the interests of the nation and therefore anything that keeps them in power is in the national interest. Does that make you a fascist? It kind of looks that way, doesnt it?
Michael Steele, a former chair of the Republican National Committee, has come to share Frieds conviction that Trump is a threat to the Republic, although Steele believes the Trump cult is more about naked political opportunism than any grand fascist ideology.
More:
https://www.thenation.com/article/society/trump-coup-elections-gop/
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)could pull it off.
We are not Germany or Italy in thirties with a terrible economic breakdown worse than our Depression and fragile democracies. And with a real fear of Stalin taking over.
No, I hope we are strong enough to resist that.
wnylib
(21,447 posts)TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)It's really, really hard to get a movement going when most people aren't directly involved. The Pullman strike (the 1894 one) was a bloody mess and just set the labor movement back years. Big black eye.
Back then William Jennings Bryan had the golden voice of populism, almost socialism, and a huge following, but the Populist Party went up in smoke.
Now, those were left-wing movements, you say. Well, as powerful as they were, McCarthy, J. Edgar and others ran into walls of quiet resistance when they went too far.
And where is the Tea Party today?
What is it, 10% of both conservatives and liberals are the ones we hear-- the ones with microphones, big mouths, and the free time to use them. The other 80% just want to go to work, raise their kids and be left alone. Thoughts of revolution don't interest them. And their simple resistance will stop the fascists.
(At least I hope it will.)
wnylib
(21,447 posts)They just disassociate themselves from the term now, but hold and promote the same politics. One of them is the representative in my very weirdly gerrymandered district and has been there since 2010.
In another post here, I already described the article on this topic by conservative David Brooks so I won't repeat it in this post except to say that his article calls upon that 80% that you referenced to refuse to accept a fraudulent win claim by Trump before all votes are counted. He calls on them to break their silence and demand a full, accurate vote count.
ihas2stinkyfeet
(1,400 posts)i dont think he has enough still connected neurons to plan what he will have for lunch. he is running on habit.
but he does push the buttons of the dictator's playbook.
and the govt is stacked w other wanna be fascists.
but i think he isnt rly gonna succeed.
pazzyanne
(6,552 posts)Stephen Miller, et al. are in the curtains pulling the strings. I have always believed that Miller is the brains behind what is happening.
ihas2stinkyfeet
(1,400 posts)he may be the only one not in it for the money.
Nikki28
(557 posts)I think and have thought for awhile this is what they are doing. Trump, his party and his tearing down our institutions. I think it is almost complete. They could not pull it off if it were not for the Senate Republicans and them not kicking him out of office when he has committed every crime imaginable and than you have a mob boss Bill Barr who is carrying out his orders. The supreme court is in his pocket,he has Putin already meddling in the election and he is following Putin playbook on how to take over a country and I also think he will not leave and make sure his daughter is the next president unless we can stop them. I am fearful we can't because right now he holds all the power and can use it how he see fit.
brush
(53,776 posts)sandensea
(21,627 posts)But as Latin autocrats could tell him, he'd need military connivance for that - and that, our brave men and women in uniform would never allow.
ihas2stinkyfeet
(1,400 posts)dopes, losers, etc since day 1.
sandensea
(21,627 posts)They may have to.
ihas2stinkyfeet
(1,400 posts)from your fingers to Her ears, sns.
brush
(53,776 posts)in the Secret Service, US Marshals, the Capitol Police and others who are loyal to the Constitution, not trump's fat, orange ass.
Not to worry, if he losses he'll be out on his ass quick fast and in a hurry if he tries to resist leaving the WH.
infullview
(981 posts)Even though SCOTUS voted in favor of states 'faithless electors' rules, there still 18 states that allow electors to go rogue. We don't have a clue where 800 million dollars of his campaign money went.... for all we know there are dozens of electors with a number to a private Swiss bank account that are just waiting to vote for the orange asshole. Swing states that allow faithless electors include WI, OH, FL, VA to list just a few.
brush
(53,776 posts)If trump somehow wins the EC again without winning the numerical vote, we're just doomed as a nation to four more years of him.
Nothing can be done about it if it happens but I don't think that's going to happen twice in a row. Time is up for trump.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,601 posts)And if Biden maintains a 7% popular vote margin, he has 99% probability of winning the EC, so moot point.
infullview
(981 posts)They go to the house and senate and if either one accepts the vote it is counted. Given what we now have for a Senate, I'd say we are in trouble.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,601 posts)The EVs are certified on January 6, after the new House and Senate are seated on January 3.
All it takes is one objection each in the house and senate to suspend the certification of the EVs, Pending agreement by both bodies. They could agree to accept an alternate slate of electors from a state, throw the decision to the House (not good), or Pelosi can delay the process past January 20, at which point she becomes president, at least temporarily.
infullview
(981 posts)"Since 1887, 3 U.S.C. 15 sets the method for objections to electoral votes. During the Joint Session, Members of Congress may object to individual electoral votes or to state returns as a whole. An objection must be declared in writing and signed by at least one Representative and one Senator. In the case of an objection, the Joint Session recesses and each chamber considers the objection separately in a session which cannot last more than two hours with each Member speaking for no more than five minutes. After each house votes on whether or not to accept the objection, the Joint Session reconvenes and both chambers disclose their decisions. If they agree to the objection, the votes in question are not counted. If either chamber does not agree with the objection, the votes are counted."
Source:
https://history.house.gov/Institution/Electoral-College/Electoral-College/
Fiendish Thingy
(15,601 posts)So, if the Dems take the Senate, they can sustain any objections.
Also, several of the swing states that dont have faithless elector restrictions (and remember, You suggested in post #15 that Biden electors Would somehow be bribed to switch to Trump) have Dem Governors and Secretaries of State, who could refuse to certify their states slate of electors/certify an alternate slate.
infullview
(981 posts)To that I have to say that never in my life imagined that a jerk like tRump would be president. So I would say to you not to take anything for granted knowing what a slime bag the current resident of the white house is.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,601 posts)infullview
(981 posts)You have no idea what kind of chicanery may be involved. It is dangerous to assume that a positive outcome will happen. We must expect the absolute worst and be totally on gard this time. He's co-opted the Senate, the Judiciary (including the Supreme Court), and the Post office. He's also got backing from Russia. What on earth makes you think he's going to just roll over? I don't care what the polls show - he's fucking dangerous!
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)its taken seriously
ashredux
(2,605 posts)Armchair Soothsayer
Yesterday Mr. Trump was highly critical of the military leadership in the Pentagon. He basically called them warmongers and tools of the defense industry. Trump continued with this line of thinking to claim the military brass didnt like him.
Prior to his comments, the head of the Joint Chiefs made it clear in a public statement, that the military would not intervene in the elections at all.
Trump went on to claim that the soldiers themselves still loved him. Thus, he was setting up a rift between the command structure at the top, and the enlisted men that make up the fighting force of the US military.
This leads the Armchair Soothsayer to venture out onto the Limb of Prognostication.
Trump will claim the election is fraudulent and that he actually won. He will say fake ballots were used to show him loosing. He will instruct the military, and every other law enforcement entity under his control, to come to his aid as he nullifies the election.
Trump, in his confusion and madness, believes he can split the command leadership of the military from the men they command. Simply put, he will attempt a Coup d'état. It will never materialize and will fail miserably. Yet, the confusion and damage to our democratic process will be great.
This was either a vision of the future, are the effects of too much caffeine. Only time will tell.
Le Roi de Pot
(744 posts)Stations with gun. And even shoot up a few
duforsure
(11,885 posts)Is have a staged major event happen, like Putin has done in Russia, then trump claim China and Biden are behind it with Bill Barr helping them promote it that way to attack the election with. If it does happen Barr, Trump, and Putin are behind it. Trump could also threaten war to use like W did falsely with Iraq. If trump corruptly gets in again , he will take over with no more real elections again. We'll become like Russia and Venezuela like Putin and Maduro have done.
CapnSteve
(219 posts)...he lives in the moment. He believes that what he says right now is what people will believe and what he said (e.g. losers and suckers) in the past never happened.
Some of the press are still trying to normalize him, and therefore contribute to his gaslighting.
Remember his crimes. Remember his disgusting acts. He is impeached. Vote him out.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)the results of the election. The groundwork has been laid rather extensively.
JohnnyRingo
(18,628 posts)As most pieces from The Nation. Everyone should read it in it's entirety.
Thanx for posting.
Judi Lynn
(160,527 posts)who was kidnapped, tortured, and murdered by Nixon's dictator, Pinochet, in Chile.
Thanks for your comment.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,601 posts)The military has already been making contingency plans to disobey unlawful orders.
Trump will likely sow chaos between now and Bidens inauguration, but there will be no coup.
Biden better make sure there are consequences for Trump and Barrs chaos and destruction (hint: Independent Prosecutor).
bucolic_frolic
(43,149 posts)The military won't follow him, various enforcement jurisdictions of executive branch will go one way or another, and not do very much. That leaves Trump with the Space Force, isolated Brooks Brothers riots, ad hoc Homeland Security, and his gun humper supporters. I think states, national guard, and federal law officers outside Washington will stay in line and support a transition peacefully.
Wild card would be if Trump has mercenaries that are unknown, or has foreign support we can't fathom.
To stage a coup would require enforcement to back it up, it would require control of Washington and the airwaves, against the blue areas of the country. More revolution than coup, really. I doubt any of it will get worse than spotty, weak, insurrections here or there.
wnylib
(21,447 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 9, 2020, 09:52 AM - Edit history (1)
editorial piece in the Buffalo News yesterday on this topic, titled, "What will you do if Trump loses the election but refuses to leave?"
EDIT to add that the article also appears at Alternet and MSM.
He gives a very realistic and plausible description of how it could happen and how various political factions would likely react. He starts with election night leads initially putting Trump ahead with in person vote tallies while Trump and his media supporters declare him the winner, before mail in ballots are counted. He goes on to describe Trump and his enablers and supporters claiming that Democrats are trying to steal the election by counting fraudulent mail in votes. Trump's belligerent supporters then take to the streets with guns to "enforce" his win while the more vocal people on the far left also react by going to the streets.
In the chaos, Brooks says Trump could delay a result indefinitely with challenges, obscuring who won and trying to stop vote counts a la 2000 in Florida except that this would involve several states. Brooks asks who will stop Trump from claiming that he has won reelection, and how?
Brooks calls upon the people of all political persuasions to recognize that this would be more than a party issue. It would be a democracy and constitutional issue. He hopes that people who are still capable of seeing right from wrong clearly would know that this is wrong. He calls on people who have remained out of the open political fray to rise to the level of true patriotism if this happens and refuse to accept it by demanding a full and accurate vote count before a winner is declared.
He ends by saying that it is time - now - to think about what each of us will do.
dalton99a
(81,476 posts)onetexan
(13,040 posts)charge. Beside, he's pissed off the military with his gross disrespect why would they help him? I also believe in the Joint chiefs of staff when they came out several weeks ago saying the military would not be a part of the election.