Just so you know, in case you're interested...

[lees1975]

https://signalpress.blogspot.com/2023/04/just-so-you-know-in-case-youre.html

It is because I believe faith means living according to virtues that give our life meaning and purpose that I am a Democrat, who believes in democracy and all of the individual freedom that comes with it. I will stand up for it and fight for it.

I will also stand up for, and fight for a pure Christian faith in the face of an intrusion of apostasy and heresy that is distorting its doctrine, corrupting its theology and undermining the effectiveness of its mission and purpose. I'm talking about the intersection, and I use that word with deliberate smugness, of Christianity with right wing Republican politics and MAGA Trumpism, that has subverted loyalty to God and replaced it with loyalty to power and influence. It is not possible to be loyal to political leaders whose lifestyle is diametrically opposite the values and principles, mission and purpose of the Christian gospel. That is the main false, paganism of our time and place.

It is not necessary for anyone to intellectually challenge what I believe, or try to prove it wrong, or belittle it, or criticize me for believing it. If you're not a believer, that's OK. I'm not asking you to become one in order for us to agree politically, socially, or otherwise. But it's not necessary for you to justify your perspective by bashing mine.

[Karadeniz]

1. There's so much more to Christianity than faith in Jesus. In fact, Jesus said you have to follow his

basic orders in order to demonstrate actual faith. It's not necessary to understand the secret teachings Jesus and Paul mention, but it's helpful because they explain why the basic orders must be followed.

[LoisB]

2. One major difference between "us" and "them" is that we believe in your right to believe as you

choose. Your faith is not my business so long as you don't attempt to force it on me and/or belittle my faith or lack thereof.

[JMCKUSICK]

3. Bravo

[stopdiggin]

4. actually, even though I can appreciate your live and let live

take on 'belief' - I can't really offer a full endorsement. This stems from basic disagreement with a number of fairly fundamental and mainstream Christian beliefs and tenets. It is a mistake to imagine that all, or even most, anti-gay, anti-marriage, anti-trans, anti-Islamic, anti-choice, antisemitic, etc. etc., feeling and motivation - comes only from the politicized and power hungry factions of faith. No - much of this is and remains mainstream teaching - and is not 'radical' in any sense even today for many mainstream congregations and believers. And thus - while I remain totally committed to freedom of religion and free expression - it would seem incumbent on me, as someone with very, very different values here - to counter that expression (and promotion?) of a set of ideas that I just cannot find either moral or just - or, finally, good for my society and country. So - the 'live and let live' thing, much as the idea appeals - can only go so far.

Peace, friend ...
But the straight truth is that both of us are trying to create a society (and pass laws) in which our values and beliefs will get to hold sway. And those beliefs might find intersection in some areas, but continue to diverge quite markedly in others.

[lees1975]

5. The standard for distinguishing Christian beliefs from politicized factions is the Christian gospel.

And that has to be discerned from all of the politicized factions that have infiltrated and corrupted the Christian church over the centuries, including the fragmented, disjointed apostate American churches.

[stopdiggin]

6. I am not comforted by claims of a 'cleaner'

or more perfect and pure interpretation of the gospel. Safe to say we've all heard that before. You and I will not be able to find agreement on this subject. And I've said my piece. Peace - and out.