Explaining White Privilege To A Broke White Person

[gaspee]

One of my friends (who is of Laotian heritage, but all American) pointed this out to me and I thought it was a really good read. I've never posted in this forum, but I thought it the appropriate place to post this.

Years ago, some feminist on the internet told me I was "Privileged."

"THE FUCK!?!?" I said.

I came from the kind of Poor that people don't want to believe still exists in this country. Have you ever spent a frigid northern Illinois winter without heat or running water? I have. At twelve years old, were you making ramen noodles in a coffee maker with water you fetched from a public bathroom? I was. Have you ever lived in a camper year round and used a random relative's apartment as your mailing address? We did. Did you attend so many different elementary schools that you can only remember a quarter of their names? Welcome to my childhood.

So when that feminist told me I had "white privilege," I told her that my white skin didn't do shit to prevent me from experiencing poverty. Then, like any good, educated feminist would, she directed me to Peggy McIntosh's 1988 now-famous piece, "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack."

Edited to add the link I messed up since I don't post OPs very often at all.

[link:http://occupywallstreet.net/story/explaining-white-privilege-broke-white-person|

[gaspee]

1. Sorry for screwing up the link

It's fixed now - I found it a great read even if it is a bit short.

As someone who grew up in poverty not quite like that but pretty bad - electricity getting shut off a few times a year - heat set at to 60 in the winter when we actually had money for oil and had heat... uneducated family, etc -- I could really relate to this piece.

[upaloopa]

2. You know this will not be a discussion but rather a food fight.

Some educators will show up to educate the un-enlightened shortly.

[gaspee]

3. I thought it was

Sensitive to all points of view and very well written and written from the perspective of a poor white person. It made me think of a few things I hadn't before. It's not any kind of polemic or does any type of shaming and it is not condescending - all things I thought made it a good read.

[upaloopa]

4. It is a good read.

The problem I see at DU concerning the issue is that there are those here who feel it is their purpose for being to tell others that they have privilege which they are not aware of. That is bull shit. There isn't an aware white person that doesn't understand that they have privilege. Just by the fact that there is diversity makes it evident to white folks that they are privileged. They understand the push for civil rights in the 60's the need for affirmative action, the hatred of minorities, the reason for the women's movement and the push for LGBT equal rights.
They are aware that all these are a result of white males being given privilege that those groups don't have.
White people are aware of their privilege and know the evil comes from abusing others with it.
To come here as someone who feels they need to educate white people about privilage is to be more ignorant then those they feel the need to educate.
The new wrinkle I've seen here lately is that there exists some form of passive guilt white folks need to feel because they have prillvilege.

[noiretextatique]

5. i think people feel the need to raise awareness

even here, because unlike you, i don't believe the concept of white privilege is as well-known and accepted as you think.

[upaloopa]

6. I understand but you are wrong.

I don't know where that comes from other than to think of the idea of the "reaction formation".

Meaning you see some lacking in yourself that is bothersome to you so you project onto others.

[JustAnotherGen]

9. Can you explain this further

Meaning you see some lacking in yourself that is bothersome to you so you project onto others.

In this instance - who is the 'who' that lacks something that they find bothersome so they project onto others?

[upaloopa]

10. Google reaction formation.

The person who needs to project onto others is the who.

[JustAnotherGen]

11. So

Are you saying caucasian male DU'ers are 'schooling' others because they feel guilt over their privilege?

[upaloopa]

12. I don't see any other motive for it.

It isn't all of the white male DUers.
1. People know they are granted privilege.
2. People know what negetive things can come from misuse of privilege.
3. Yet there are folks who won't accept 1 and 2.
I can only assume they see something lacking in themselves so to compensate for their self loathing they do something that to them is a positive action and that is to teach others about the thing they feel they lack which takes projecting on others their own lack.

[JustAnotherGen]

15. Try this - alter it a bit

1. People know they are not from the dominant culture.
2. People know the dominant culture has pigeon holed them, relied on stereotypes, limited their places to live, economic mobility and thrown them crumbs in the education system.
3. There are folks who won't accept the experience of the sub culture in relation to 1 and 2.

I can only assume they have zero desire to see anything other than the dominant culture perspective in relation to the subculture and so they cling to movies/books like The Help and use that to say "I know black people."

I don't disagree with you - there is nothing worse than being patted on the head and told by a well meaning white man, "Now there there - I know "you" and that's all that matters.". I "get" having other people who have no knowledge of your experience in America tell (try to?) tell you something about yourself.

It's extremely frustrating.

[upaloopa]

16. I figured it out yesterday.

The OP that had pictures of segregation in the South brought it home to me.
Many of us where alive back then. We can't or I can't get why you feel the need to teach us about privilege when we lived in the time of extreme privilege and it was and is so much a part of our lives.
Then I saw a thread where someone posted a speech about privilege. That speech is where young people get their paradigm which they see privilege through. Your to young to understand where I am coming from. We have completely different life experiences concerning the issue. I lived during segregation and to you it is a history lesson. So you feel the need to teach me what you recently learned yet I know more about it than you do. I lived it and still do. You read about it feel expert enough to preach about it.
I'm afraid anything I say on the subject will not change the paradigm you see privilege through so I will trash the privilege treads because they are so irritating to me. I can't stand the arrogance that comes across in them.

[JustAnotherGen]

17. How old

Do you think I am?

And does the fact that when I was five I went into a Dairy Queen with my mother and cousins (1978) in Talladega and were refused service mean anything to you?


Because I know a lot more about being black in America TODAY - in the North East - than you will ever know.


There you went.

That's okay - pat me on my head, my ass whatever - this is why race in terms of black / white MUST be taboo in anything other than the AA Group.

Dead serious.


It hurts the feelings of our white Du'ers too much and I don't want to cause you any pain.

[upaloopa]

18. Yes I am white and don't understand your life experiences.

I tried awful hard to learn. High school friends of mine and myself went to the South in the 60's to meet Black students our age to try to get some kind of understanding of what their life was like. I was really shaken to learn things like in Columbus Georgia Black teens were not permitted to cross the bridge to go to the movies unless the are accompanied by white teens.
I marched in Civil Rights marches. I went to Black churches all to learn.
I think this will mean nothing to you. I'm the white guy who used my privilege to take advantage. OK I am still going to trash the privilege threads because we will never understand each other.

[JustAnotherGen]

19. No - it does mean something to me

But my father was one of the black men that escaped America - not the South - but AMERICA in the 60s . . . by way of the military.

His brothers - one was in the military then my grandfather got him a gig in London - the other one -

University then directly to Paris.

It was not just the South - it was America.

And that's what needs to be understood here.

He was proven right (my dad) after that experience visiting his family in Talladega Alabama in 1978. More so when we came back to our half built house in Rochester NY to find "Keep American clean - kill the niggers" in marker on the garage wall.


Rochester - where The North Star was published . . .

[upaloopa]

22. I grew up in Dayton Ohio

Our town was segregated. The Black part of town was know as the West Side.
My dad took his car there to get fixed because it would be fixed right and cost less. A Black mechanic there got all my dad's business. I remember my first experience seeing Black kids my age going to the garage there with my dad. I was about 5 and waited in the car while my dad went to talk to the mechanic. Three Black kids came over to our car and we stared at each other like we from different planets. I thought they must have been poorer than me because they had on old clothes and no shoes. I still have that image in my head.
We also went to farmers markets on the West Side because you could get fresh vegetables cheaper there.
I was intrigued by the West Side and rode my bicycle there on weekends. That's how I got the need to learn as much as I could about the people there.
I have a lot more to say but this is enough

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. Guilt?

Is this where the cries of "White Guilt" begins?

[noiretextatique]

20. no, your entire argument ignores reality

we have virulent racists in this country, some of them in congress, and certainly a lot of them in the tea party. are you telling me that the people who think obama was born in kenya and is a communist muslim are aware of and/or accept the notion of white privilege?! and even among allies, any discussion of race and privilege becomes about white guilt or everyone is racist. i know you are wrong.

[JustAnotherGen]

7. I agree

[1StrongBlackMan]

13. Your comments ...

following that post was the start of the food fight, as what I (and I believe most) will take from them is, "Yes ... I understand white privilege; but STFU about it because ... well ... because I said I understand it."

Maybe, you should re-read the article.

[noiretextatique]

21. let's not forget: talking about white privilege is worse than white privelege

also works for racism, sexism, and homophobia. i've seen that written so many times here, it makes my head spin. and of course, there's the "tone" non-argument, that coincidentally, perfectly demonstrates privilege.

[1StrongBlackMan]

23. YES! ...

and of course, there's the "tone" non-argument, that coincidentally, perfectly demonstrates privilege.

Maybe ... One day ... the folks will realize that displaying privilege is not a particularly good way to shut-down discussions of privilege. Nahhh ... won't happen.

As I was typing that, I recalled a discussion I once had, well in a bar ...

I was shooting pool (gambling) in a redneck bar. As I was making my way around the table, I notice a woman giving me "the eye." I pretty much ignored her because: 1) I was there to make money, not get a date; and, 2) she looked like she was in her mid-70s (which meant she was probably in her early 50s) and I was in my early thirties.

Well, as I made more and more money (and she had more and more to drink), she became more blatant in her flirtations. Finally, she got up and walked over to me, as I was lining up a shot, and whispered in my ear ... "Know what? I ain't no racist ... I've always wanted to f@#% me a ni@@er!"

I was dumbfounded! ... All I could manage to say was, "Well, I hope you find one stupid enough to do you after you sit there and call him a ni@@er!"

[yurbud]

25. you should have told her it would cost her whole social security check...

but you'd throw in a free ride back to rest home when you were done.

[1StrongBlackMan]

31. As I continued shooting ...

I came up with a bunch of responses and possible courses of actions ... none of which I would have been proud of.

[yurbud]

32. I just realize that sounded like a good Key and Peele skit

Only with a less attractive woman.

[1StrongBlackMan]

34. LOL ...

"I'm sorry sir, I don't have any money."

[yurbud]

36. "Miss Daisy, you gotta find another Morgan Freeman, cause I aint driving you."

[yurbud]

26. great story--and far more effective than talking about abstract concepts like "white privilege"

[noiretextatique]

38. remind me never to challenge you a pool game

clearly she assumed you'd jump at he chance

[1StrongBlackMan]

40. Cuz all Black mens ...

just loves ... gots ta have them some white gals.

I paid about 1/2 my under-grad tuition shooting pool.

[yurbud]

28. the importance of tone is whether your goal is to vent or persuade

If it's just to vent, your tone doesn't matter.

If you want someone to agree with you, you have to give them some rhetorical or emotional room to do so or at least something in your demeanor that says you will accept them if they agree, so that "they" can in some sense become part of "us."

[noiretextatique]

39. your condescending tone is not persuading me

and i don't care about persuading a teabagger, for example. or a racist. i learned many years ago that a lot of ignorance is willful, chosen and deliberate. let them enjoy their bliss.

[yurbud]

41. I don't think teabaggers are persuadable, and I agree about the willfully ignorant but...

some people may be only accidentally ignorant and potentially open to change.

Now that I think about it, who would be the correct target of this lecture about white privilege and what result do you expect?

I didn't mean that to be condescending at all. I wanted to hear what the thinking was behind it.

What's wrong with asking what you're trying to accomplish by framing it like that?

There are ways of talking about racism that are equally blunt, honest, and accurate that leave people room to agree with you and help end ongoing injustices.

Even if a white person agrees they have life easier because they are white and even that they harbor racism themselves, then what?

[JustAnotherGen]

30. That's it exactly noire

And it goes towards all of those 'isms' you just listed. As I said to another poster - it's shame that these have become 'taboo' topics at a leftist online community. Who'da thunk it?

[ReasonableToo]

8. Thank you. Found Ms McIntosh introducing her list...

I'm happy that this site is not a place for the willfully ignorant. I learn something every day.

I first read the OP before the link was fixed. When I googled the title, I found Ms. McIntosh introducing her list...

I also found this 10 minute excerpt from a Tim Wise speech...

Mr. Wise has a refreshing no-nonsense delivery. In either this or another of his pieces, he points out that if 2/3 of white people very wrongly denied that the US had a racism problem when the US was deep into it's period of apartheid segregation, why in the world should we think that there is not still racism. If you want to know if racism exists still, ask a minority what he or she thinks and then BELIEVE what they tell you.

[yurbud]

24. we have to figure out a way to talk about this that draws people together rather than divides them

"You people have it so much better than us" puts people on the defensive.

Tell people what happened to you or your friends or relatives and let them put two and two together.

For example, I didn't think much about black guys being stopped and harassed by cops until one of my students, a veteran and very humble non-threatening guy showed up for class with cuts and bruises on his face. He got pulled over for making a wrong turn in Pasadena, California. I couldn't imagine this guy saying or doing anything that would justify the cops giving him a beating. He didn't have to tell me I was "privileged" not to have that happen to me, and framing it like that wouldn't have made what happened to him affect me more (or less).

A lot of white people felt the same way about the Trayvon Martin shooting. I had no problem with people saying that wouldn't happen to a middle class white kid out on a munchies run, but the fact was obvious before anyone said it.

[gaspee]

43. One of the reasons

I posted this article was that I thought the tone was excellent and wouldn't lead to people saying they didn't want to be preached to - I didn't find it preachy at all.

[yurbud]

46. the rest of the piece was very good, but framing it as "white privilege" will put off a lot of

people who would otherwise agree.

Instead of putting it in terms of what whites get, why not be more direct and use a term that mean what blacks don't?

[AverageJoe90]

47. That's true; it makes perfect sense when you think about it. nt

[elleng]

29. Nicely written.

Opting out of 'food fight!

[Thirties Child]

33. It was 1968 in Atlanta, a couple of months after King was killed

I am white, was helping a young black man who had been sent to Atlanta by the American Friends Service Committee to try to integrate housing. He was looking for an apartment for his family, called about a house advertised in the paper, talked to them in his Northern accent. The owner would love to rent to him, come right over. When we got to the house, got out of the car, me with my toddler, they wouldn't open the door. I had never experienced discrimination before, was enraged by it and have never forgotten what it felt like. I was much angrier than he was, he said he was used to it. He also said he preferred the discrimination of the South - you knew where you stood - to the discrimination of the North - you didn't know where you stood.

[yurbud]

42. that's a good story, thanks.

[pansypoo53219]

35. wrong term. its class warfare. period.

[Doctor_J]

44. exactly. those who bring race or gender into every conversation are

part of the problem.

[noiretextatique]

45. bullshit

It is both not either or. Race and gender and class..not just class.

[cinnabonbon]

37. That is an excellent article.

And they even linked to WP: unpacking the invisible knapsack!

[polynomial]

48. Another side of Privilege is

Ethnic Sovereignty is another side of that notion of privilege. However, American philosophy on diversity changes that old world, or ancient concept. Family, or community based on color is and has been a human cultural phenomena for the millennia. Ancient and old European, Eastern, Persian, African, especially indigenous American Indian era was and still is immersed swamped with prejudice.

One story about being white rather than just being privilege has to do with its ascension. It took me a while and a personal shock about philosophies about transformations of color, or transgender. Ethnic sovereignty related to color too is a simple bias especially still honored by one percent royal types, or poor types. Marry that special person, which now the gay element brings in a new debate that is just beginning.

You name it and the argument related to poverty is all around man kind in every group or color. I too grow up in a shanty, and being white, my father was a drunk and left the family, plus my struggle in education, not by being less intelligent but known to not have enough put me in that era of mass class room promotion year after year with everyone else.

My k-12 education was a blur. The most important part of life injected and scaled forward just put there somewhere like knowing what affirmative action was for a white poor kids in the fifties. There are decades of citizens like that called boomers, some that did not move on to higher education, that live life by the sixty second commercial advertising, or daily news papers, or role playing the theater. For me higher education was always a pursuit and with the internet there is little excuse not to aspire to your goals, or share knowledge to help everyone improve not just the one percent.