What Cold War CIA Interrogators Learned From The NAZIS (excerpt from Operation PAPERCLIP by Annie

[bobthedrummer]

Jacobsen posted on The Daily Beast 2-11-14)
"At a secret black site in the years after the end of WWII, CIA and US intelligence operatives tested LSD and other interrogation techniques on captured Soviet spies-all with the help of former Nazi doctors..."
http://www.dailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/11/what-cold-war-cia-interrogators-learned-from-the-nazis.html

MKULTRA/MKSEARCH and many other US intelligence "top secret" forays into neuroscience utilized NAZI's and NAZI "research" too. I'll be adding to this thread later, I'd like to hear from you first, DUer's.

[bobthedrummer]

1. On March 2, 1946 California rocket scientist (and leader of the California O.T.O) Jack Parsons and

Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard initiated their version of high tech sorcery (similar to the Nazi inner circle rites often derived from Ahnenerbe "research" ) BABALON WORKING, supposedly the manifestation of an elemental being-the "Moonchild".

BABALON WORKING continues in many cultures, including modern Los Angeles (presented as art)
http://moca.org/blasts/MOCAtvButler_Release.html

Far from straying off topic, this kind of stuff was part of the eugenics goal of producing the Aryan Superman/Superwoman as well as the truly evil medical "research" of the Third Reich-it included the paranormal as well as magic/sorcery combined with cutting edge science.

This was continued in the MKULTRA/MKSEARCH and related US intelligence community programs (occultic rituals, remote viewing, the esp experiments on NASA manned missions, covert neuroscience based terminal experimentation and research, etc.).

In 1969 Diamanda Galas was a bright California college student working with US Navy weapons researchers and people like John Lily. She has made a lot of comments about MKULTRA/MKSEARCH projects. Below is an interesting 2008 interview with Galas that covers some of what Annie Jacobsen's Operation PAPERCLIP includes, from a different perspective imo.

Diamanda Galas Worked With Navy Weapons Expert (5-08 interview)
http://ce399.typepad.com/weblog/2008/05/diamanda-gals-w.html

What are your thoughts on this DU?

[bobthedrummer]

69. Another Operation OFTEN blowback post-those Nazis were really into the darkside spiritually and so

were many in the US intelligence community

The CIA Connections to the Mind Control Cults (Alex Constantine 3-17-12 War is Crime post)
http://wariscrime.com/new/the-cia-connections-to-the-mind-control-cults

[bobthedrummer]

2. Sidney Gottlieb went to India when he retired from poisoning, torturing, killing and other CIA evils

Sid worked well with those Operation PAPERCLIP Nazis. He was a dedicated professional. He liked researching LSD and other psychedelics a lot, just like some of the SS veterans that were given identities and employment as Americans working in national security.

Sid was relentless when it came to MKULTRA too.

Sidney Gottlieb (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Gottlieb

Sidney Gottlieb (Whale Carol Rutz entry)
http://www.whale.to/b/gottlieb.html

Surely there are other DUer's that can add to this thread. C'mon, it's 2014 not 1946.

[Octafish]

3. The U.S. Has a History of Using Torture

by Alfred W. McCoy

Mr. McCoy is J.R.W. Smail Professor of History at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and the author of A Question of Torture: CIA Interrogation, from the Cold War to the War on Terror (New York: Metropolitan Books, 2006).

In April 2004, Americans were stunned when CBS broadcast those now-notorious photographs from Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison, showing hooded Iraqis stripped naked while U.S. soldiers stood by smiling. As this scandal grabbed headlines around the globe, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld insisted that the abuses were "perpetrated by a small number of U.S. military," whom New York Times’ columnist William Safire soon branded "creeps"--a line that few in the press had reason to challenge.

When I looked at these photos, I did not see snapshots of simple brutality or a breakdown in military discipline. After more than a decade of studying the Philippine military’s torture techniques for a monograph published by Yale back 1999, I could see the tell-tale signs of the CIA’s psychological methods. For example, that iconic photo of a hooded Iraqi with fake electrical wires hanging from his extended arms shows, not the sadism of a few “creeps,” but instead the two key trademark’s of the CIA’s psychological torture. The hood was for sensory disorientation. The arms were extended for self-inflicted pain. It was that simple; it was that obvious.

After making that argument in an op-ed for the Boston Globe two weeks after CBS published the photos, I began exploring the historical continuity, the connections, between the CIA torture research back in the 1950s and Abu Ghraib in 2004. By using the past to interrogate the present, I published a book titled A Question of Torture last January that tracks the trail of an extraordinary historical and institutional continuity through countless pages of declassified documents. The findings are disturbing and bear directly upon the ongoing bitter debate over torture that culminated in the enactment of the Military Commissions law just last October.

From 1950 to 1962, the CIA led a secret research effort to crack the code of human consciousness, a veritable Manhattan project of the mind with costs that reached a billion dollars a year. Many have heard about the most outlandish and least successful aspect of this research -- the testing of LSD on unsuspecting subjects and the tragic death of a CIA employee, Dr. Frank Olson, who jumped to his death from a New York hotel after a dose of this drug. This Agency drug testing, the focus of countless sensational press accounts and a half-dozen major books, led nowhere.

But obscure CIA-funded behavioral experiments, outsourced to the country’s leading universities, produced two key findings, both duly and dully reported in scientific journals, that contributed to the discovery of a distinctly American form of torture: psychological torture.With funding from Canada’s Defense Research Board, famed Canadian psychologist Dr. Donald O. Hebb found that he could induce a state akin to psychosis in just 48 hours. What had the doctor done—drugs, hypnosis, electroshock? No, none of the above.

CONTINUED...

http://www.hnn.us/article/32497

Gottlieb went to India? That's near Ceylon, where a famous science fiction author got to bugger all the children he wanted, in-between novels and moon shots.

[bobthedrummer]

4. Yes Sir, Gottlieb did make a journey out that way after "retirement"-also Tibet. The Ahnenerbe SS

Last edited Thu Feb 20, 2014, 02:37 PM - Edit history (1)

had been doing their "research" all over the globe seeking paranormal/occultic related items, systems etc. to give an edge to their lust for power and dominance of the Third Reich. They did, in fact, combine some of (let's call it "exotic&quot the exotic with hightech and science.

Ahnenerbe (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahnenerbe

The Canadian author, Heather Pringle, wrote a book about the Ahnenerbe that helped to inform me about their "work". Other authors have contributed to that history over the years. Below is a review of her book by Science Shelf staff.
The Master Plan: Himmler's Scholars and the Holocaust (Pringle 2006 Hyperion)
http://www.scienceshelf.com/MasterPlan.htm

on edit:
I'm adding a Heather Pringle article from October 2012 for more context
Buddha, Space, Meteorites and Nazi Science (Descrier October 2012)
http://descrier.co.uk/science/2012/10/buddha-space-meteorites-and-nazi-science

I respect the Canadian attempts to provide some justice to their citizens that were violated by all the US sponsored covert mind control "research".

In the US intelligence community that utilized PAPERCLIP personnel there were leaders like Richard Helms (who once had an exclusive interview with Adolph Hitler when a young UPI reporter btw) Helms was also a true believer in the goals of MKULTRA/MKSEARCH, he kept it going until he was spending all his time as Director CIA destroying records of all these programs that Alfred McCoy and many others have published about. Helms did this destruction of documentation during the post-Watergate era (Church/Pike investigations etc.) He failed to eliminate all of it.

I'll be posting more about all this history that needs to be heard later. I'll close with an excerpt from another book related to Operation PAPERCLIP and some of the research of the Ahnenerbe (the first acronymn, ORD refers to the CIA Office of Research and Development=Gottlieb et al)

"ORD also sponsored work in parapsychology. Along with the military services, Agency officials wanted to know whether psychics could read minds or control them from afar (telepathy), if they could gain information about distant places or people (clairvoyance or remote viewing), if they could predict the future (precognition), or influence the movement of physical objects or even the human mind (photokinesis). The last could have incredibly destructive applications, if it worked."
(pp226-227; John Marks, The Search for the Manchurian Candidate: The CIA and Mind Control/The Secret History of the Behavioral Sciences).

That quote refers to the Reagan years US intelligence community continuence of Ahnenerbe inspired projects like STARGATE.

[bobthedrummer]

8. Cheryl Welsh expanded on Alfred McCoy's work focusing on the neurological science abuses (you may be

familiar with this 2008 article)
In Contravention of Coventional Wisdom (Welsh 2008)
http://mindjustice.org/wisdom.htm

[Odin2005]

64. Are you accusing Arthur C. Clarke of RAPING CHILDREN???

[Judi Lynn]

65. It was discussed starting a long time ago, had you bothered enough to research.

The mysterious Sri Lankan world of Arthur C. Clarke
Peter Popham
Tuesday 03 February 1998

The science-fiction author Arthur C Clarke yesterday denied a newspaper claim that he is a paedophile. None the less, he asked that his knighthood ceremony be postponed so not to embarrass the Prince of Wales. Peter Popham reports.

Arthur C Clarke is still going to be Sir Arthur but the ceremony may have to wait for his reincarnation in another galaxy. That seemed the implication of the announcement from the seaside home of the prophet of the Space Age yesterday, as the impact of the Sunday Mirror's story slowly sank in to this sleepy corner of the global village.

On Sunday the newspaper declared Clarke to be a self-confessed paedophile. He was quoted admitting as much, and a Sri Lankan "friend" - head of current affairs at the Sri Lankan Broadcasting Company - alleged that Clarke was still having sex with boys "a few months ago". Clarke claimed he had not been sexually active for 20 years.

Yesterday it was announced that he had requested the conferment of his knighthood to be postponed, to avoid embarrassing Prince Charles. The request was accepted. The ceremony was due to be at the British High Commission tomorrow. Clarke was also said to be discussing the Mirror's story with his lawyers. In Sri Lanka, even the astrophysicist operates at a sedate, pre-modern pace, so 36 hours after the Mirror's story broke it was my duty to bring it to the attention of the director of the institute that bears Clarke's name. Professor Sam Karunaratne was visibly stunned.

More:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/the-mysterious-sri-lankan-world-of-arthur-c-clarke-1142640.html

The focus of the article posted by Octofish was his link on torture, actually. That would be the place to start in a response to it.

[bobthedrummer]

67. Thank you Judi Lynn. Open the pod bay doors please HAL... n/t

[bobthedrummer]

73. It's the NAZI influenced neurosciences that maintain full-spectrum dominance here in the land of the

lost.
"From 1950-1962, the CIA led a secret research effort to crack the code of human consciousness..."

From FOIA requests and continued investigations and all open sources we, the people, know that the CIA did run (Helms, Gottlieb, Angleton, GHW Bush et. al) the systemic study and use of black magic for national security Operation OFTEN (also CHICKWIT) right here at the same time of Nixon and his list of enemies, Hoover's Personal and Confidential lists, the CIA's Family Jewels, etc. The targeted groups and targeted individuals of those lists were mostly American citizens that exercised their right to dissent.


Some real American Nazi influenced secret societies include Skull and Bones as well as The Aryan Brotherhood-our equivalent to The Thule Society. Kick.

[jsr]

5. Recommend

[Judi Lynn]

6. Absolutely essential reading. Citizens need to know.

The moral position is to CARE what has happened, and seek the truth.

Thank you for helping people toward that goal.

Thank you, and thanks to Annie Jacobsen.

[bobthedrummer]

7. Some Sidney Gottlieb remarks about the DoD/CIA project MK OFTEN: "explore the world of black magic"

"harness the forces of darkness and challenge the concept that the inner reaches of the mind are beyond reach".

Heinrich Himmler certainly did just that. So did some of the SS veterans that were magically changed into Americans in the alchemy of Operation PAPERCLIP.

"Black magic" all cultures have some of that-yet there aren't too many cultures that combined it with things like quantum mechanics, nuclear physics, genetic modification/cloning, space exploration etc.

That's what this post will attempt to do-to link the occultic belief systems of The Thule Society that were part of the NAZI Party leadership and its policies to what US intelligence covert endeavors like MK OFTEN yielded.

DUers that share some of these beliefs as part of their religious freedom/freedom from religion should not take offense-this is just me expressing some thoughts about hidden history.

Moderators take note that some of the hyperlinks will be weird to general readers-the purpose is to inform how the US intelligence community interacted with and was influenced by Operation PAPERCLIP.

The balance of this post will be background links related to Sid Gottlieb's remarks concerning MK OFTEN.

The Thule Society (Wikipedia page)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Society

The Thule Society. org (North American website)
http://thule-society.org

Very Bad Company-Occultism And Power (7-25-13 Rune Soup post by Gordon)
http://runesoup.com/2013/07/very-bad-company

The Temple of Set (Wikipedia entry)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Set

Satanist Winter Laake Honest About Facing Death (Skeptiko interview)
http://www.skeptiko.com/satanist-winter-laake-honest-about-facing-death

Zeena Schreck (Wikipedia bio)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeena_Schreck

That's just a fraction of what MK OFTEN explored imho.

[MisterP]

9. ditto "Argentina's Rasputin"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_López_Rega
Xul Solar would NOT approve!

[bobthedrummer]

10. Well, contrary to the belief system of many of The Thule Society (past & present), Ragnarok did not

happen this past weekend. We do have the polar vortex however-mighty cold where I reside in the driftless region of Wisconsin. Has anyone seen the satellite photos of the extent of Lake Superior's ice?

Cold, satellite photos, The Thule Society, Operation PAPERCLIP-that reminds me that the National Aeronautics and Space Administration/NASA owes a lot to people like Jack Parsons (JPL;BABALON WORKING;California O.T.O etc) and the scientific contributions of Operation PAPERCLIP NAZI's like the Peenemunde team.

People like "the father of space medicine" Hubertus Strughold, his colleagues the Haber brothers (Heinz and Fritz), the discredited Dr. Rudolph and many others. Let's look at what some have termed NASA's Nazis, originally brought to US by Operation PAPERCLIP.

Hubertus Strughold, the father of space medicine (Wikipedia page)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubertus_Strughold

A Scientist's Nazi-Era Past Haunts Prestigious Space Prize (11-30-12 Lucette Lagnado Wall Street Journal article via Constantine Report)
http://www.constantinereport.com/a-scientists-nazi-era-past-haunts-prestigious-space-prize

Just a couple more brief thoughts in this post-I think the reason so many of NASA's projects still carry names from Pagan mythology reflects what many of the Operation PAPERCLIP NAZI's brought to US, smirking evil geniuses that many of them were.

Al Filreis has a University of Pennsylvania (another big MK ULTRA/MK SEARCH etc. affiliate) maintained Holocaust writing archive that is wonderful for those of US that take an interest in Operation PAPERLIP related history. Below is a link to that.
http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/Holocaust/holhome.html

Thanks to all that have contributed to this thread so far. I always encourage others to post-it's how we learn from each other.

[bobthedrummer]

11. Wisconsin's made contributions to the darkside of neuroscience, chemical/biological warfare etc.

This is fascinating to me because I was born and raised in Milwaukee and currently reside in Wisconsin. I earned my Bachelor's in the UW system. I don't ignore history. I love the truth and am relentless when pursuing it.

This post is about some of the people and events in the OP.

Fort Detrick was converted into a CBW center by UW-Madison bacteriologist Ira Baldwin and others connected to UW.
Birth of Science (US Army)
http://www.detrick.army.mil/cutting_edge/chapter04.cfm

Dr. Baldwin's participation in CBW research was far more intensive than his Ft. Detrick or Wikipedia entries state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ira_Baldwin

He chose Fort Detrick because of it's proximity to Washington D.C. as well as rural location plus that part of Maryland had other military places like Edgewood. After WWII both Detrick and Edgewood had Operation PAPERCLIP employees (like Friedrich "Fritz" Hoffmann) and lots of NAZI "research data".

Edgewood Arsenal Experiments (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgewood_Arsenal_experiments

A Milwaukee pioneering psychiatrist and neurosurgeon, Dr. Ernest L. Bullard, (he was the Director of the Wisconsin State Asylum @ Mendota that resigned in 1904 after an outbreak of typhoid fever had killed clients there) moved to Maryland after purchasing a Rockville hotel in 1906.

Dr. Bullard converted it into an insane asylum which opened in 1910 as Chestnut Lodge Sanatarium. For quite awhile he was the sole Dr. there, followed by 3 generations of Bullards that practiced there.

Chestnut Lodge Sanatarium (Asylum Projects.org)
http://www.asylumprojects.org/index.php?title=Chestnut_Lodge_Sanatarium

Frank Olson was from Wisconsin, he earned his degree here before becoming involved in the military intelligence community during the war and after working at Fort Detrick as a senior microbiologist.

He was secretly dosed with LSD by Sidney Gottlieb and had some reactions which led to CIA attempts of treatment at Chestnut Lodge and later the NYC Agency connected hypnotist Mulholland (btw, I don't trust nor believe in coincidence when it comes to the US intelligence community).

Frank Olson (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Olson

That's enough for today from me, I encourage others to add to this thread. One last thing, last week the American Psychological Association's legislative body voted in favor of a ban of "participation" (torture) in US military interrogation-yet the APA "failed" to get it on its agenda.

[bobthedrummer]

12. More University of Wisconsin linked MKULTRA/MKSEARCH alumni and projects

It gets very interesting when people follow the career paths of prominent people and institutions related to the abuses of neuroscience that were part of the MKULTRA/MKSEARCH Cold Warriors and their Operation PAPERCLIP colleagues.

Let's begin with Carl Rogers (some of his research was funded by the CIA's Human Ecology Fund and was part of MKULTRA Sub-projects 94 & 74). Rogers was a Board member of the UW Human Ecology Fund. He was the President of the American Psychological Association 1947-48.

Carl Rogers (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Rogers

Btw, below is a link from the Canadian Coalition to Oppose Arms Trade/COAT that details what Dr. Ewen Cameron (President APA) did with his Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology/Human Ecology Fund grants.

1957-1961 Canada: MKULTRA Experiments in Montreal by Joseph Rauh Jr & James Turner
http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/issue43/articles/1957_1961_canada.htm

There was graduate student Abraham Maslow (whose Hierarchy of Needs theory was reversed, in many ways, by MKULTRA/MKSEARCH projects)
Abraham Maslow (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Maslow

Maslow's graduate education at UW was led by Harry Harlow (Head of Human Services Research Branch US Army 1950-52) who went off campus to found his Primate Research Center in Madison.
Harry Harlow (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Harlow

There was Louis Jolyon West of course-he was doing LSD "tests" long before becoming a founder of the Cult Awareness Network and setting up his spooky projects at UC, plus he was the goto guy when it came to interviewing "assassins" (that was a big part of MKULTRA/MKSEARCH-to determine if it was possible to create a programmed assassin, I believe this was achieved). He spent a lot of his service at Texas USAF bases that were full of Operation PAPERCLIP employees and projects.

Louis Jolyon West (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Jolyon_West

Back to Carl Rogers, one of his first graduate students at UW-Madison was none other than William Thetford (who was a scribe to Helen Schucman's "channeled by Jesus Christ" cult favorite A Course in Miracles/ACIM)
William Thetford (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Thetford

There is a lot more I could post about the Wisconsin MKULTRA/MKSEARCH connections but I think people will see the point I and other survivors of the "research" are making, we aren't making this up-no one could. It's reality.

Btw, you can make a gift to the UW Human Ecology Fund if you want to, it's 2014 not 1967.
http://www.supportuw.org/how-to-give/school-college/human-ecology

And you might be eligible for a Wallace J. Hilliard Fund if UW still grants them for Emerging Scholars in Mathematics (Wally was the owner of Huffman Aviation among other enterprises)

I encourage others to post in this thread, as always. It's 2014 not 1949-lol.

[bobthedrummer]

40. It's a wtf kick n/t

[Judi Lynn]

71. Mind-boggling. More people need to know. Thank you. n/t

[bobthedrummer]

72. As always, Judi Lynn, spread it far and wide-my friend. n/t

[bobthedrummer]

13. "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste..."

There are a couple more US intelligence community fellas that I'd like to introduce into this thread, Andrija Puharich and Hal Puthoff.

First is the Puharich family website maintained by his son Andy. It verifies, in a positive way, his involvement in much of what has been posted so far.
Andrija Puharich (Official website)
http://www.puharich.nl/Bio/biography.htm

Andrija Puharich (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrija_Puharich

I remember that Peter Hurkos guy making the rounds in my childhood taking Polaroid camera pictures of places inside his head on live tv-and who can forget Uri Geller's demonstrations...

But what really concerns me is the fact that the genius Puharich was a medical officer in the US Army that spent lots of time in the 50's at both Edgewood Arsenal and Fort Detrick and had many other Operation PAPERCLIP connections that were a huge part of US CBW, MK ULTRA, and MK OFTEN.

Then there is Hal Puthoff, another US intelligence genius ("former Scientologist", parapsychologist, directed energy systems pioneer, NSA employee, etc).

Hal Puthoff (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_E._Puthoff

Hal Puthoff (Parapsychology Association)
http://archived.parapsych.org/members/h_puthoff.html

Well remote viewing is certainly a big moneymaker for the gray/black budget today, so is being a spook psychic (again, no disrespect here) honored at places like Stanford Research Institute's Cognitve Science Laboratories where Puharich and Puthoff mentored and researched STARGATE with US taxpayers non-consensual support.

http://www.lfr.org/lfr/csl/index.html



STARGATE (Federation of American Scientists entry)
http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/stargate.htm

Btw, it's March 2, 2014-68 years after Jack Parsons and L. Ron Hubbard's BABALON WORKING commencement in California, where the Motion Picture Arts and Sciences Academy Awards are being presented this evening and WWIII is still a possibility.

Add to this thread DU.

[bobthedrummer]

14. Just think about what blossomed from all that sprang from the covert employment of Nazi's given

citizenship and employment in the national security community of The United States of America.

Remember Douglas Feith's secret counterterrorism networks and his Office of Special Plans? Feith and many others sought to benefit from all that Operation PAPERCLIP established. They took it to what we, the people are learning in this post-Snowden, Manning, WikiLeaks world.

I believe that Richard Bruce Cheney was echoing Sid Gottlieb's MK OFTEN meme about "going to the darkside" after 9/11. What do you think DU?

While researching in one of my favorite (and trusted) websites I came across a recent posting that I'm sure fits in with this thread.

Special Plans and Double Meanings: Controversies Over Deception, Intelligence, and Policy Counterterrorism (The National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book 456; 2-20-14, edited by Jeffery T. Richelson)
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB456

[bobthedrummer]

15. Nazi spies, triple agents, the ODESSA, ratlines and the consequences today in Europe and elsewhere

Reinhard Gehlen became the Third Reich's spy master of the Eastern Front when Germany turned against the neutrality agreement with Stalin's USSR.

He held rank in the Wehrmacht, but, let's remember that he was a spy so who knows what to think about his claims (extremely self-serving ones especially about supporting plots against Hitler-what a good guy he must have seemed to some--sounds like survival tradecraft)

He was believed by US military officials who really didn't know much about our ally Stalin's USSR, so Gehlen was "recruited". He brought with him many, many NAZI SS and SD and, of course some Soviet agents that were part of the networks he oversaw.

Reinhard Gehlen (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Gehlen

Geoffrey Duin posted a pretty good article about Gehlen's surrender and "recruitment" (again this is about espionage which always includes deception)
Operation Rusty (7-15-07 Duin post Military History Online)
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/articles/operationrusty.aspx

One thing is certain, there were critics of employing Nazis within the US intelligence community from it's birth in the 1947 National Security Act but their misgivings were ignored by policies that protected "former" SS, Gestapo and other Nazi's, including many war criminals.

The CIA's Worst Kept Secret (Gehlen Org) {Martin A. Lee 5-16-01 Consortium News via Third World Traveler}
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA/Gehlen_Org.html

Within less than a decade the Gehlen Organization became West Germany's "new" intelligence community member the BND-headed by Gehlen, comprised of many former Gestapo, SS, and other Nazi's. (I've been mulling this fact while hearing about the "crisis" in Ukraine and all the psyops)

Intelligence Agency's Murky Past: The Nazi Criminals Who Became German Spooks (Klaus Wiegrefe; 2-26-11 Spiegel Online)
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/intelligence-agency-s-murky-past-the-nazi-criminals-who-became-german-spooks-a-745640.html

Gehlen, with the active participation of the US intelligence community(i.e. Operation PAPERCLIP), whatever he might have been about ideologically achieved MANY of the goals of the ODESSA.

ODESSA (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ODESSA

I hope others add to this thread in these historic times we find ourselves in, where the Cold War has emerged from the shadows and we are playing with WWIII possibilities in 2014.

[bobthedrummer]

17. Red Cross and Vatican helped thousands of Nazis to escape (Dalya Alberge 5-25-11 The Guardian)

"Research shows how travel documents ended up in the hands of the likes of Adolph Eichmann, Josef Mengele and Klaus Barbie in the postwar chaos...:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/25/nazis-escaped-on-red-cross-documents

Ratlines (Wikipedia) you need to click on the first hyperlink Ratlines (World War II) because of some tech bug
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratlines

Wow.
Btw, I grew up in a Bund city-did you? Milwaukee had it's share of Operation PAPERCLIP professionals when I was a kid, especially the medical profession.

[bobthedrummer]

16. CIA Accused of Spying on Senate Panel Investigating Torture (Lauren McCauley 3-5-14 Common Dreams)

Last edited Wed Mar 5, 2014, 06:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Lawmakers who ok'd NSA spying now crying foul about CIA monitoring of their activities

http://www.commondreams.org/node/103226

on edit: Obama knew CIA secretly monitored intelligence committee, senator claims (Spencer Ackerman 3-5-14 The Guardian)
White House declines to comment after Mark Udall says agency spied on staffers preparing scathing report into CIA torture after 9/11

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/obama-cia-senate-intelligence-committee-torture

Anyone else wanting to add to this thread I advise to do it asap. And, yes, you can be sure that it will be read keystroke by keystroke by criminals working for US national security.

[Judi Lynn]

18. Kicking! Thanks for this outstanding information. It's a true gift. n/t

[bobthedrummer]

19. Pass it around my friend. n/t

[bobthedrummer]

20. In the post-WWI era as Germany suffered the penalties imposed by the Versailles Treaty,

German economist/banker/politician Hjalmar Horace Greely Schacht put together an influential group of bankers to form the Bank of International Settlements/BIS to lessen the imposed economic effects of starting WWI being felt by all German citizens.

What I intend to do in this post is to connect more "hidden" historic people and events together in the context of Operation PAPERCLIP and its tremendous influence on the development and policies of the US national security community.

Hjalmar Schacht (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjalmar_Schacht

One of Schacht's primary partners in the foundation of BIS was Gates W. McGarrah (1st BIS President and Chairman of the Board April 1930-May 1933).

Former Board Members (BIS)
http://www.bis.org/about/formerboard.htm

Gates W. McGarrah was the maternal grandfather of Richard McGarrah Helms.

BIS is the epicenter of globalization.

A Deeper Look at the Bank for International Settlements (Green Party of England and Wales article)
http://www.sustecweb.co.uk/past/SustEc14-2/a_deeper_look_at_the_bank_for_in.htm

Otto Skorzeny was a legendary SS military leader (who later helped form the ODESSA and Werewolves networks). He was captured, went to trial (1947), was acquitted and then held in an Allied prison camp at Darmstadt. On July 27, 1948 three men wearing US Army MP uniforms took "custody" of Skorzeny on the pretext of taking him to legal proceedings at Nuremberg. This was how he escaped from the Allies.

For the next 18 months Otto Skorzeny hid on a Barvarian farm owned by Countess Ilse Luthje-the niece of Hjalmar Schacht. While hiding there Skorzeny had contacts with Reinhard Gehlen and other Operation PAPERCLIP operatives.

Otto Skorzeny (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Skorzeny

I'll post some more about these hidden history connections later.

I ask those of you DUer's that take an interest in these things for a contribution to this thread.

[bobthedrummer]

21. A short post about Richard McGarrah Helms OSS/ DCI June 30, 1966-February 2, 1973

George Tenet delivered his Eulogy for Former DCI Richard McGarrah Helms at the CIA on April 14, 2007. I wanted to post it but the CIA changed the HTML to some encrypted thing this morning after I visited their website so, me being barely computer literate and using my (US national security community monitored) public library network, I don't have the time or skills to do that, but you certainly can if so inclined.

The Wikipedia entry on him also has ample references and links, it will be the "objective" link in this short post.
Richard McGarrah Helms (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Helms

Below is a subjective DU thread I started on June 4, 2004 that was approximately the beginning of finding some concrete answers to my life experiences as a US citizen "deprived of rights under color of law" by individuals and elements within the US national security community based upon simply being put on politicized lists.

MH CHAOS/Operation CHAOS became the International Terrorism Group (DU GD 6-4-04)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1717968

Anyone else here have something to say about how the influence of Operation PAPERCLIP (or any of the topics upthread) has manifested itself in your life? Today is a good day to post it.

[bobthedrummer]

22. Why is it that the US national security community works against democracy favoring RW extremes?

Well, duh, consider Operation PAPERCLIP's immense influences and look at the elitists involved in US national security from any given era as mentors give way to students.

Here's a putrid example: Henry Kissinger & Associates and Paul Bremer. (Richard Bruce Cheney and Donald Henry Rumsfeld will be posted about later).

Your input is required to make this thread useful to democracy, people. Fwiw, below are a couple of links I chose to illustrate why fascism is favored by our national security community-even here in The United States of America.

Toronto welcomes Henry Kissinger, accused war criminal (Gerald Caplan 6-3-11 The Globe And Mail)
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/munk-debates/toronto-welcomes-henry-kissinger-accused-war-criminal/article4192522

Paul Bremer (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bremer

What do you think/know/want to say about this? Today is the day to express yourself. It's 2014 not 1854.

[bobthedrummer]

23. Once upon a time the CIA had what was called the Directorate of Operations, which must have included

Operation PAPERCLIP employees with skill sets including torture and assassination aka enhanced interrogation techniques and regime change. Prior to being called the Directorate of Operations/DO it was known as the Directorate of Plans/DP.

Today (thanks to Porter J. Goss, who worked in the DP approx. 1960-71) the functions of that unit have been absorbed and expanded by the National Clandestine Service.

National Clandestine Service (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Clandestine_Service

Porter J. Goss is another one of those Bush Family Yale CIA well connected folks, he is a Cheney/Gottlieb ("darkside&quot vet that certainly was directly influenced by the original Operation PAPERCLIP Nazis, and his brief tenure and policies as George Walker Bush's "choice" for DCI (4-21-05 to 5-5-06) are currently blowing up all around US and the world-without giving him the proper credit imo.

Porter J. Goss (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_Goss

Goss (Source Watch entry circa 2008)
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Porter_J._Goss

It's not easy to find open sources about what was really going on in that era (1960-71) when Porter Goss was hanging out a lot in Miami and The Southern Cone with colleagues like George Joannides, David Sanchez Morales, Frank Wisner et al.

For those that find researching hidden history worth the considerable efforts, the last hyperlink in this post comes from the late former Assistant Deputy Director of the Directorate of Operations Robert Trumbull Crowley papers via John Young's Cryptome archives.

It is a controversial list of names and addresses known as The Crowley Files which I, for one, have found worthwhile when researching the US intelligence community's legacies of Operation PAPERCLIP.

The Crowley Files
http://cryptome.org/cia-2619.htm

This thread needs your input DU.

[bobthedrummer]

24. Carmel Offie was a living fountain of everything discussed in this thread so far, who was he really?

By most accounts he was an openly gay man working in US diplomatic/intelligence at a time when that was grounds for all kinds of official discrimination/blackmail/coercion.

Below are just a few links about Carmel Offie as well as some of his closest colleagues and social networks.

Carmel Offie (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmel_Offie

He did work in some capacity with Operation PAPERCLIP. He had a connection with John Kennedy that went way back to his service as a "diplomatic staffer" in Moscow and Paris.

There have been many references to his connections to Sid Gottlieb, MKULTRA etc. Offie and Gottlieb were relative neighbors (Culpepper&Markham Virginia). Carol Rutz authored an intriguing article about this.

Ritual Abuse-Shadow Government and Mount Pony (Rutz)
http://www.whale.to/b/ruzt4.html

He has been cited by many people associated with the House Select Committee on Assassinations like Salon founder David Talbot

JFK assassination: CIA and New York Times are still lying to us (11-6-13 Salon article David Talbot)
http://www.salon.com/2013/11/06/the_jfk_assassination_we_still_dont_know_what_happened

No one can make this stuff up.

Add to this thread DUers.

[bobthedrummer]

25. Dave Emory's Lecture Series: The American Elite and the Origins of the CIA is a wonderful resource

for those of US that seek what has been hidden in the US national security community.

The American Elite and the Origins of the CIA (Lecture Series 5 Dave Emory)
http://archive.org/details/Lecture_Series_5_The_American_Elite_and_the_Origins_of_the_CIA

The Wisner family seems another example of this dynastic elite (Dulles, Bush etc.) element to me. Frank Gardner Wisner Sr. became a fanatic anti- Soviet that recruited his own set of Nazis (Operation BLOODSTONE) and spent lots of time with other members of our nation's elite (The Georgetown Set) crafting together a MSM propaganda/influence operation within the US free press (Operation MOCKINGBIRD). He was extremely close with Richard McGarrah Helms.

As with all accounts of these historic figures there are many impediments when trying to find out who they were/are and what they really did contribute to defending the national security of The United States of America. I'll just give a couple of links about Frank Gardner Wisner Sr. from what's on the internet.

Frank Wisner (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Wisner

Frank Wisner (Spartacus Schoolnet)
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKwisner.htm

Then there is one of President Obama's Special envoys, former Ambassador to India, member of The Council on Foreign Relations, and a whole lot more of what elites and globalism is about imo-Frank G. Wisner Jr.

Frank Wisner Jr. (The Center for Media and Democracy/SourceWatch)
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Frank_Wisner


What do you have to say about all this, DU?

[factsarenotfair]

27. I think it's worse than we could fathom.

Also I think the Mormon church is involved.

[factsarenotfair]

26. You probably know about Wewelsburg Castle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wewelsburg

[bobthedrummer]

29. See post 7 n/t

[bobthedrummer]

28. John Dmitri Negroponte: The 1st Director of National Intelligence (appointed by George Walker Bush)

He was pretty young when he went to Yale, he was being groomed for a career in US national security. This guy deserves a post all about him.

John Dmitri Negroponte data (from various eras)

Source Watch
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/John_D._Negroponte

NNDB
http://www.nndb.com/people/813/000044681

Who is John Negroponte? (Ghali Hassan 6-4-04 Counterpunch)
http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/06/04/who-is-john-negroponte

There's so much US national security learned from the NAZIS that were given jobs and idenities as Americans defending we, the people against our enemies domestic and foreign...paradoxically I hate everything about our 1st DNI-don't you?

[bobthedrummer]

30. Operation PAPERCLIP Nazis and Nazi collaborators found a political home in the Republican Party

I need to post this before moving on to people like the Donald Henry Rumsfeld and Richard Bruce Cheney extended families.

Nazi-affiliated Emigres And The Republican Party (David Lee Reston 9-18-88 Philadelphia Inquirer)
http://articles.philly.com/1988-09-18/news/26229962_1_ethnic-coalition-american-nationalities

National Republican Heritage Groups Council (The Center for Media and Democracy/SourceWatch)
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=National_Republican_Heritage_Groups_Council

A Fresh Look (Carla Binion 2000 Bartcop article)
http://www.bartcop.com/nazigop.htm

George H. W. Bush used Nazi-collaborators to get Elected (Russ Bellant)
http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/54/54_38-41.pdf

In October 1975 G.H.W. Bush was appointed Director of the CIA and Donald Henry Rumsfeld Secretary of Defense by unelected POTUS Ford, who also granted a Presidential Pardon to Nixon.

[Judi Lynn]

31. Thanks for passing this information along. So much which MUST be learned.

We absolutely need to know this, it all still continues.

[bobthedrummer]

32. You can add your own database stories that apply to this, Judi Lynn, and encourage those in your

networks to do so too. C'mon DUers, it's 2014 not 1956! Add to this thread.

[bobthedrummer]

33. The person that "introduced" Henry Kissinger, mentored Alexander Haig, was a counselor/advisor to

Rumsfeld, Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz and the most powerful people in the USA when it came to militarism (from the Cold War to the present day) was Fritz Gustane Anton Kraemer.

For me the most educational article about Fritz G.A. Kraemer was written by Nick Thimmesch and published March 2, 1975 in the Washington Post (March 2-Parsons/Hubbard California OTO BABALON WORKING anniversary, what a coincidence, again-lol).

The Iron Mentor Of The Pentagon (Thimmesch 1975) Mae Brussell archived it.
http://www.maebrussell.com/Articles%20and%20Notes/Kraemer%20-%20Iron%20Mentor.html

Compare that to his Wikipedia entry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_G._A._Kraemer

This is the guy that Donald Henry Rumsfeld called "the keeper of the flame" when he resigned as George Walker Bush's Sec/Def in 2006.

This is the guy that is apparently one of the ideological causes of a great schism in US conservatism, among other things-and I never heard much about him until researching for this thread.

Who was Fritz Kraemer? (Nixon Tapes.org)
http://nixontapes.org/kraemer.html

This is one of the most influential people I never really heard of-I had heard of people like Leo Strauss, but not Kraemer.

I keep searching hidden history as our world is heading towards some kind of conflict resolution that I would like to understand without the IO/PSYOPS 24/7. And we need to recall who got US to this point of crisis-people that were influenced by the militarism of Kraemer.

People like Donald Henry Rumsfeld (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Rumsfeld

and Rumsfeld's former student Richard Bruce Cheney (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney

and Cheney's daughter Elizabeth Cheney Perry (Birthplace Madison WI 7-28-66)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Cheney

I'll end this post with a few non-random links and another call for DUers to contribute something to this thread in the expanding context of the foundation, conceptual framework, policies and history of the US national security community.

Cheney Watch
http://www.cheneywatch.org

Introduction to The Beast Reawakens (Martin A. Lee via Public Eye)
http://www.publiceye.org/lee/beast_intro.html

[Octafish]

34. U.S. hired Nazis to test LSD and CIA interrogation techniques, book says

By John Byrne
Thursday, February 13, 2014 10:51 EDT

It’s long been known that Nazi scientists helped the U.S. in its quest to secure its military might and space program at the height of the Cold War. Wernher von Braun, for example, a Nazi rocket scientist, led a team that helped the U.S. develop the vehicle employed for the first nuclear missile test, and aided efforts to launch first Western satellite in 1958. Hundreds of Nazi scientists were given citizenship between 1945 and 1955. But what’s been unknown — until today — is the extent to which former Nazis were employed to test LSD and other interrogation techniques on captured Soviet spies.

According to a book released this week by journalist Annie Jacobsen, U.S. intelligence hired Third Reich scientists in capacities stranger and more nefarious than anything reported before.

“Under Operation Paperclip, which began in May of 1945, the scientists who helped the Third Reich wage war continued their weapons-related work for the U.S. government, developing rockets, chemical and biological weapons, aviation and space medicine (for enhancing military pilot and astronaut performance), and many other armaments at a feverish and paranoid pace that came to define the Cold War,” Jacobsen writes. Her book is titled Operation Paperclip: The Secret Intelligence Program that Brought Nazi Scientists to America.

The book follows 21 former Nazis, eight of whom worked side by side with Hitler and his top lieutenants. According to Jacobsen, they joined the U.S. fight against the Soviets in the U.S. at the behest of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Her account reveals the bizarre, funhouse-like theater that pervaded the U.S. military and intelligence services at the time. It takes the reader a step farther than previous narratives, exploring the nexus of Nazis and Americans, who’d been at war just years before. In a memorable paragraph, she describes U.S.-Nazi collaboration over LSD.

Quoting a memorandum on a program titled U.S. Artichoke, she writes, “Between 4 June 1952 and 18 June 1952, an IS&O [CIA Inspection and Security Office] team… applied Artichoke techniques to two operational cases in a safe house. In the first case, light dosages of drugs coupled with hypnosis were used to induce a complete hypnotic trance… This trance was held for approximately one hour and forty minutes of interrogation with a subsequent total amnesia produced.”

She also posits that the CIA teamed up with former Nazis to develop interrogation techniques.

CONTINUED w links...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/02/13/u-s-hired-nazis-to-test-lsd-and-cia-interrogation-techniques-book-says/

DU once paid a lot of heed to information like this.

These guys at CIA working with Dulles lied to President Truman and later President Eisenhower. Everybody knows Dulles lied to President Kennedy.

[bobthedrummer]

35. The Extra Sensory Extremely Special Forces and the use of the Paranormal to find enemies

and "neutralize" them.

In the proxy USSR/USA Vietnam War many of the topics discussed so far were operationalized by all sides

Lt. Col. John B. Alexander was a commander of US Special Forces in Thailand/Vietnam 1966-69.
He worked with many in the CIA, DIA and other groups that had directly been part of what the Operation PAPERCLIP employees weaponized in the Cold War against godless communism-including invoking (ala post-atomic BABALON WORKING etc.) new and old gods and goddesses and the use of their alleged special powers.

Let's start with a review of Dr. John B. Alexander, his family and social networks. He earned his PhD at Walden University (Minnesota) in Thanatology btw, the study of all aspects of death in human cultures. His participation in secret operations like The Phoenix Program must have heavily influenced that choice of dissertation imo.

John B. Alexander (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Alexander

Wow! Now with that brief Wikipedia entry lets see where we can go searching for the hidden history. He is a recognized US military non-lethal weapons expert along with many others.
(US Army 2007)
http://www.carlisle.army.mil/proteus/docs/bios-2007.pdf

He was part of the CIA/DIA Remote Viewing Research and Development that did, in fact, produce a Defense Intelligence Agency Coordinate Remote Viewing Manual and branched out over the decades. Sometimes one has to go to some very strange places when seeking facts. I don't know who P.J.Gaenir is, he does have an archived pdf copy of the DIA/Stanford Research Institute Coordinate Remote Viewing Manual on his Firedocs page.
http://www.firedocs.com/remoteviewing/answers/crvmanual/CRVManual_FiredocsRV.pdf

There are various camps of these remote viewers aka psychic spies
http://www.remoteviewers.com/htms/updated/info/general_rv/readings.htm

Remote viewing was part of finding the elusive enemy during the Vietnam War and part of the Phoenix Program that people like Dr. Alexander participated in. This Phoenix Program deserves a bit of background in this post too. Some of the major CIA employees and operative networks involved in it have been written about.

Vietnam War/CIA (Namebase.org)
http://www.namebase.org/books89.html

Extrapolation from the Phoenix Program takes a researcher to things like the Presidential pardon of Richard Secord by former CIA Director G.H.W. Bush

Affidavit of Daniel P. Sheehan (NCOIC.com)
http://ncoic.com/heroin-2.htm

Phoenix 1967-1971 (Global Security.org article)
http://globalsecurity.org/intell/ops/vietnam-phoenix.htm

Wow!

No one made this up and I, for one, can see the connections back to some of the shared conceptual frameworks/rituals of The Thule Society, the Waffen SS, the California OTO etc. Even what Sid Gottlieb termed the "black magic" of MK OFTEN and similar US intelligence community endeavors-no matter how crazy they might seem to other human beings.

Well Lt.Col John B. Alexander had a very sinister colleague in the Defense Intelligence Agency, Lt Col. Michael Aquino, who was very open about his personal faith and practices of worshiping Satan-so much so that he took over much of the Church of Satan and formed the Temple of Set and got the US Armed Forces to recognize this legally as an organized religion so that US military members could do whatever Satanist/Setians do during their services.

That is not meant to take away from the possible contributions Col.Aquino made to the US national security during his military service in the Defense Intelligence Agency and elsewhere.

Yet there remains the issues of special operations torture and murder, and the lifelong effects on all human beings involved in that regardless of all else which people like Dr. Alexander and Col. Aquino helped develop for our national security.

As a consequence of his religious affiliation Col. Aquino has certainly sparked much controversy including being a person repeatedly cited in several horrible criminal cases involving self-identified Satanists.
Satanism and Ritual Abuse-Case-by-Case Documentation (Alex Constantine 2-14-09)
http://www.whale.to/b/satanism2.html

Then there are the similarities between tactics and techniques used by 21st century special forces and what was envisioned in the writings of such DIA papers as MindWar (Aquino) to strange societal events and the formation of groups like Multistalker Victims, groups that have contributed much to the database about people like Dr. John B. Alexander and topics like remote viewing, esp, hightech magic etc.

People/Researchers (Joe K. Adams)
http://multistalkervictims.org/mcf/hambone/people.html

Wow! I don't post from home, I post from my public library and have to log off now.

Add to this thread DUers.

[bobthedrummer]

36. Our country was covertly fighting what became our only military defeat, The Vietnam War, before 1954

This was the era of the direct participation of Operation PAPERCLIP employees and administrators. The foundation of our Special Forces networks.

The era of people like former V.P of Bell Aviation (helicopters, exotic vehicles, drones, missiles)
Walter Dornberger (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Dornberger

The CIA's Vietnam Histories (The National Security Archive)
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB284

I have absolutely no doubt that "former ardent NAZIS" and other fascists (sometimes wearing US uniforms) were major influences on policies and operations as well as introducing forms of experimental warfare in Vietnam.

I have no doubts that the former USSR also employed "former ardent NAZI's" worldwide but nothing ever approaching what the US national security community accomplished.

It blows my mind to recall some of the paradoxes of the Cold War, taking a NATO Commander as but one example, btw this is one of the guys that got President Reagan to lay a wreath at Bitburg-Gen. Steinhoff

Johannes Steinhoff (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Steinhoff

I cannot dismiss having an extreme dislike of John J. McCloy's role in being complicit in recruitment of NAZI's among other things he achieved in his career.

John J. McCloy (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_J._McCloy


Let's take a look at some of the other US national security community's leaders of this defeat in Vietnam (my boomer generation's war) in addition to those mentioned in post #35.

First, though, we need to mention some Cold War doctrines that "guided" our involvement in Vietnam. President Eisenhower is credited with the "domino theory"-i.e. communist states in any given region of earth would force neighboring states to become communist. Richard Nixon was especially outspoken on this back in the Korean War era. Several others contributed to this overarching viewpoint.

I don't find any coincidences when it comes to their espionage connections during and after WWII and secret society memberships.
These are a few of those that chorused "rather be dead than Red" just like NAZI's while a lot of human beings died and suffered.

Walt Whitman Rostow (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Whitman_Rostow

McGeorge Bundy (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGeorge_Bundy

Then there are the covert operators and the military leaders that had so much influence in the disastrous prosecution of the Vietnam War and the neutralization of all opposition to it.

Theodore "Ted" Shackley (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Shackley

Donald Phinney Gregg (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Gregg

Gen. William Westmoreland (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Westmoreland

Gen. Maxwell D. Taylor (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell_D._Taylor

Robert McNamara (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_McNamara

Add to this thread DUers-it's 2014 not 1965.

[bobthedrummer]

37. Fugitive Nazis who built a paedophile paradise in the sun: The Chilean colony founded by a one-eyed

soldier who turned 230 Germans into slaves (Ben Judah 2-20-14 Daily Mail)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2564343/Fugitive-Nazis-built-paedophile-paradise-sun.html

It's 2014 not 1938.

[bobthedrummer]

38. "What Happens When Performance Art, Post-Industrial Music, and Ritual Magic Meet" (Tim O'Neill)

The Invocation Of The Black Sun (Tim O'Neill; Brainwashed.com)
http://www.brainwashed.com/coil/writings/gnosis.html

Remember Jack Parsons and L. Ron Hubbard's California OTO (along with real Nazis) participating in BABALON WORKING along with Diamonda Galas interview all in post #1? That is the context of today's contribution to shining some light on the darkness, as so many others have regardless of popularity or sales profits. Spooky.

The Solar Lodge of the O.T.O. (Ed Sanders)
http://www.feastofhateandfear.com/archives/edsanders2.html

The OTO & the CIA (Alex Constantine 1996)
http://www.american-buddha.com/theotoandthecia.htm


The Solar Lodge, History of OTO (Bill Heidrick 1993)
http://www.arcane-archive.org/religion/thelema/philosophy/the-solar-lodge-history-of-oto-1.php

Peaches Geldof has signed up to Aleister Crowley's sex cult OTO (The Guardian 4-15-13)
http://www.theguardian.com/culture/shortcuts/2013/apr/15/peaches-geldof-aleister-crowley-sex-cult-oto

So post your thoughts about all the topics in THIS THREAD OF SPOOKY SUBJECTS, DU, because there is simply no limitations when it comes to the "influence" of US NAZIS, is there?

[bobthedrummer]

39. Just think of all the topics we've just scratched the surface of here! Our tax dollars at work fund-

ing all sorts of actions designed to defend The United States of America and strengthen national security.

How's that working today DU? WWIII is underway. The Fourth Reich is rising imho. LSD trips with "former Nazi doctors" and the other legacies of Operation PAPERCLIP, America's NAZI's in the US intelligence community. What do you think about Sidney Gottlieb's "study of black magic" back in the day? MK ULTRA/MK SEARCH/MK OFTEN? How about war criminals George Walker Bush, Alberto Gonzales, Douglas Feith, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Cofer Black, George Tenet, Condoleeza Rice, Michael Chertoff, Porter Goss, Gen. David Pretraus, Donald Henry Rumsfeld and Richard Bruce Cheney-just to recall a few of these traitors to we, the people?

Surely there are other passionate anti-fascists here, contribute your post-it's 2014 not 1940! Or did the cat get your mouse???

[bobthedrummer]

41. Another encouragement to join in the discusssion in these days of troop movements for WWIII. n/t

[bobthedrummer]

42. CIA torture architect breaks silence to defend "enhanced interrogation" (Jason Leopold 4-18-14

Guardian)
Jason has longtime detractors here, I'm not one of them.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/18/cia-torture-architect-enhanced-interrogation

[bobthedrummer]

43. Kick for participation n/t

[bobthedrummer]

44. A death penalty kick and another call for participation for those that love the truth. n/t

[bobthedrummer]

45. Time displacement-a kick for you to speak your mind, DU. n/t

[yurbud]

46. This is why Godwin's Law doesn't always apply

Sometimes our government is literally doing stuff LIKE the Nazis because they learned it FROM the Nazis.

[bobthedrummer]

47. Another consideration, yurbud, is that US eugenics leadership was adopted by some (SS)

and junk race "science" was indoctrinated to all through a multimedia controlled by the Nazis...then , Operation PAPERCLIP (+ other similar ops) seeded thousands of real NAZI's throughout the Americas-Wisconsin was quite a "haven" for them, fwiw.

[bobthedrummer]

48. "After 9-11 we tortured some folks..." kick

[bobthedrummer]

49. Kick n/t

[Chimeradog]

50. bookmarked!

excellent thread

thank you

[bobthedrummer]

53. Welcome to DU Chimeradog-love your sig line! n/t

[Chimeradog]

54. thank u:)

Some great people here- i look forward to much excellent discussion. sincerely me btw do have rep system here?

[truedelphi]

51. Thank you for this topic.

I recently read a book of collected essays on the Nuremberg Trials and there was a section of the book that focused on our own Operation Paperclip.

This is such an important subject and I am glad to see it being discussed here.

[SamKnause]

52. K&R

Thank you for this encyclopedia of information !!!!

Your hard work is appreciated !!!!

[bobthedrummer]

55. CIA's Denial of Protecting Nazis is Blatant Lie Pt1 by Hank P. Albarelli Jr (12-7-10

VoltaireNet post)
http://www.voltairenet.org/article167692.html

[bobthedrummer]

56. "We tortured some folks..." k n/t

[bobthedrummer]

57. October kick + some suggested articles on the uses of reversing "neuroscience"

Torturing Democracy: Further Reading (The National Security Archive)
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/torturingdemocracy/project/reading.html

"Verscharfte Vernehmung" (enhanced interrogation by The Gestapo) The Daily Dish 5-29-07 article from The Atlantic archives
http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2007/05/-versch-auml-rfte-vernehmung/228158

[bobthedrummer]

58. Another October kick for "biological warfare defense" learned from the I.G. FARBEN Americans n/t

[bobthedrummer]

59. Nazis back in the news-especially because of Dulles and Hoover helping to bring them here. n/t

[Octafish]

66. Allen Dulles and John McCloy both had big roles, re NAZIs in post-war America...

It's a fact that is curiously missing from American history and from any public mention of the roles on the Warren Commission.



Here's a fact curiously missing from American history and any mention of the Warren Commission: Two of its members were directly responsible for the rise of post-war fascism. Allen Dulles, as a top official of the OSS and CIA, incorporated NAZI war criminals into the CIA from its founding. John McCloy, as High Commissioner for Germany, allowed Klaus Barbie and who-knows-who-else to escape justice. Of course, both men were also barons of Wall Street and Beltway Insiders, at the heart of the military industrial complex. We all can see what that means for the United States today.

[bobthedrummer]

60. Does the CIA want Republicans to win the midterms? (Trevor Timm 11-1-14 Guardian)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/01/does-the-cia-want-republicans-to-win-the-midterms

Yep, the Agency has learned and expanded the influence from it's original NAZIS right here in The United States of America in 2014.

[Judi Lynn]

61. So much at stake with this election. Thanks for sharing this critically important insight. n/t

[bobthedrummer]

62. Well, we voted Judi Lynn... another kick and call for DUer's to participate in this long runner n/t

[Old Nick]

63. Paperclip? Sounds harmless!

[bobthedrummer]

68. Judge apologizes for "offensive" remarks; Lenz cited Auschwitz as example of efficiency (Julian

Emerson 11-1-14 Eau Claire Leader-Telegram)
http://www.leadertelegram.com/news/front_page/article_be9172b0-6186-11e4-a555-77cb0db0f89a.html

That was published 2 days prior to the midterms here in Gauleiter Walker's Wisconsin. Post your examples in this thread, DU.

[bobthedrummer]

70. Stand or Fall kick

Stand or Fall (The Fixx)

Add to this ongoing thread about the influence of Nazis here in The United States of America DU. Stand or Fall.

[bobthedrummer]

74. Does anyone else get Nazi vibes from Richard Bruce Cheney and his daughter Elizabeth? n/t

[bobthedrummer]

75. Almost the close of 2014 yet it seems like 1938 in many respects to those of US that vowed to NEVER

FORGET. Hey DU, I speak only for myself, right?
NEVER FORGET isn't rhetorical.
Anyone else REMEMBER history w/o cartoons and medications from tptb? Speaking of tptb, here in the land of the free and the home of the brave, seems like all their NAZI influences have been largely forgotten by most except those attracted to threads like this imho. What do you think DU?

[bobthedrummer]

76. "Death to America" kick n/t

[bobthedrummer]

77. ^

[bobthedrummer]

78. 2016 kick