The Resident Fails Again (On Usury)

[rdubwiley]

[limpyhobbler]

1. This video is useless immature garbage.

All you're saying is don't inject morality into economics.

You think it's fine for people who have enough money to simply make money by lending it out and charging interest. People who live like that are leeches who simply live off of the productive labor of others. It's completely unfair. Economics without morality does more harm than good.

[rdubwiley]

2. Wait what?

I think it's good that people who own larger shares of money have the incentive to use, and loan that money to persons who are poorer.

[limpyhobbler]

3. People who can simply live off of collecting interest have no incentive to work.

That lets them live off the work of others.

Usury lets people live like useless leeches on society just because they happen to be sitting on top of a big enough pile of money.

How is that fair?

[rdubwiley]

4. Well

Yes, capitalists use their capital to make an income. That's how it works. The point is that the capital goes to poorer individuals so in the future, the poor won't need to work as hard.

White collar people work less than blue collar people, is that bad?

Inequality isn't fair, but it's a part of life. At least through capitalism there's a way to bring people closer to equality.

[limpyhobbler]

5. So you admit it is not fair, but you like it anyway, since it is "bringing us closer to inequality"

Yes it really seems to be working out so well...



I feel so equal I can hardly contain myself



Poor people going into debt to rich people seems to be making us so equal.



Wrong. Go back to Econ 101. Or actually don't. That's probably where you got that idea.

Working class incomes have stopped growing and people have been plugging the hole with debt to survive. Families and governemnts have been going into debt to bankers for the basic necessities of life. Medical expenses are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US. We just saw the largest municipal bankruptcy in history, in Detroit. Whole nations are in turmoil because they borrowed money from banks for the basic necessities of life. Debt is not the solution. Debt is the problem. Instead begging banks to lend to us, we should tax banks and and wealthy people, and use the money to provide for our people.

[lrellok]

6. Oh for F@ck sake

I got as far as him describing GDP per capita as a useful measure and stopped. First, GDP per capita does not measure anything, its like counting the number of leaves on a duck. GDP is a measure of Production, largely industrial production. It is calculated by adding together the value of all goods and services sold in a nation, subtracting all imports and adding all export. Its the the in-store value of all goods BUILT in a nation, not all good BOUGHT. SO dividing the product of a nation by the number of people (many of whom are in diapers and thus produce nothing salable) makes less then no sense.

A better measure would be GDP per employee, compared to median income. This tells you how much the average employee adds to the economy and how much they take home. Comparing these gives you an estimate of 1) how the "middle class" of the economy is fairing and 2) how much stake that middle class has in keeping the economy running. Also 3) a rough measure of if the economy is about to have demand shocks, as bill gates will never buy as many loaves of bread as 50,000,000 poor people.

Also, there are EXCEEDINGLY good reason usury is a problem mostly relating to what are called "rent seeking" and "missallocation". Effectively, if rich people have all the money, they charge to much to use the money, and instead of building more steel pipes, a factory has to pay back the rich people with the money they should have spent on steel. This slows the economy down as prices are forced to places they should not be and resources get used in ways less effective then they should have been.

[marble falls]

8. Very nice and concise. You and limpyhobbler are the only two posts that actually explain anything.

[marble falls]

7. Meh. Pretty darn useless. I think limpyhobbler's #4 reply is well worth a thread of it's own, though

[fasttense]

9. Usury and capitalism are 2 different uses of money.

They are NOT the same thing and to equate them is beyond ignorant.

Usury is charging excessive interest.

Capitalism is an economic system.

They are NOT the same thing.

You can have usury in a socialist economic system and you can have fair lending in a capitalist system.