Penn & Teller's Bullshit - Vaccinations

[onehandle]

[benld74]

1. IMHOP anyone who doesnt vaccinate their kids is playing with TNT

[iamthebandfanman]

13. TNT that doesnt just blow themselves up

as well..
I was never able to take the whooping cough vaccine because of strange reactions that could have killed me...
I rely completely on the notion that everyone else HAS had it...
by doing so , you are protecting ME .. not only you.

[ewagner]

2. What I like about this...

is that he is angry...

he calls the meme BULLSHIT....because it is...

he makes no apologies

he makes no concessions..



hmmmmm...maybe more politics should be that way.

[TlalocW]

4. Number 1, Penn is like Bruce Banner in the Avengers...

He's always angry.

Second, they explained the use of Bullshit and the increase in cursing on the first episode - it's a legal dodge. If you go out and call a psychic a phony or a fake, they can sue your ass. If you call them an asshole and what they're doing bullshit, you're safe.

TlalocW

[roguevalley]

15. those are two words I apply to penn and teller.

[GoneFishin]

3. I don't know if there is a connection or not. But like the fossil fuel industry who will say or pay

anybody to shut down, slow down, or muddle the climate change debate, big pharma will do the same. We would get exactly the same response from big pharma regardless of the underlying facts. The same with the tobacco industry. So any information sourced by them is useless. Something has driven autism rates through the roof, and don't hold your breath for the guilty industry to raise their hand and fess up. They will lie their fucking asses off to stave off the day when they will be held accountable, whoever they are.

I think these guys are funny, and I like their passion too. But I don't believe they are objective.

[Archae]

6. Vaccines have ZILCH to do with autism.

All credible evidence says this.

The main pushers of this woo (and you bet your ass it is woo,) have no evidence, in fact one, Andrew Wakefield, faked his "evidence" and as a result has lost his medical license.

Autism is a mental disorder, like schizophrenia, depression, and what I have, bipolar.

[GoneFishin]

22. I am open minded. What objective study can you cite not funded by big pharma or the like?

If you have nothing but your personal experience, that carries little weight in this particular case since everybody has relatives or friends dealing with mental health issues.

I am not ready to rule out environmental factors. Time will tell.

[VanillaRhapsody]

26. I will take the advice of my BioEngineer doctorate Sister In law...

I got my booster last week. AND she is giving vaccines to her newborn.

[GoneFishin]

35. Makes sense. My family too. Still don't know if there is a connection. n/t

[rexcat]

8. I worked in a children's hospital

as a Microbiology Supervisor in the 80's and prior to the advent of many of the vaccines used today we say many cases of meningitis. Since the introduction of the pediatric vaccines meningitis has become a rare event in this country. The whooping cough (Bordetella pertussis) vaccine is extremely effective in preventing the disease. Granted the first vaccine for whooping cough caused problems with a small subset of children but with the acelluar form of the vaccine that came out in the late 80's adverse events dropped considerably.

We are now seeing a rise in whooping cough because parents are not vaccinating their kids. Same with measles and other preventable diseases. If you are so adamant that pharmaceutical companies are not telling the truth stop taking any prescription drugs, including antibiotics, vaccines (including tetanus toxoid), blood pressure medications, diabetic medications, etc., etc. See how long you live doing that!

Just to make things clear when a child comes down with meningitis about 75% who survive the infection will have some sort of cognitive and motor skill issues post infection, from very serious to mild. About 20-25% will die from the infection. As far as whooping cough 10% of infants who contract the illness will die from the infection. About 50% of those who survive will have brain damage. Of those who survive about 75% will have chronic respiratory issues, mild to severe in nature for the rest of their life.

You speak of something you know nothing about. Pharmaceutical companies have and still have issues but they also do good. Any parent who does not vaccinate their kids is doing more harm than good. If a child comes down with a preventable disease the parents should be held accountable as in child abuse. I saw too many kids die prior to the introduction of the pediatric vaccines and there is nothing worse than seeing a child die. Trust me on this one!!!

[GoneFishin]

23. I said nothing of the sort. You are making a straw man argument.

I am objective. I truly don't know if there is a connection. If you have no objective hard data then neither do you.

But I sure as hell am not going to trust an industry that has a track record of unethical marketing practices, bent on outrageous profits and ballooning stock prices at all costs. Defending the ethics of the big pharma based on the fact that many of their products do good is also a straw man argument. Tobacco companies make cigarettes that satisfy millions of smokers, and big oil makes petroleum products that the world virtually can't live without. But that says nothing about their thirst for profits and their aversion to lawsuits.

Citing 50 year old examples is of little value since the alleged culprit as I understand it is not the vaccines as such, but the preservatives and bulk storage used in more recent years.

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. I am sure there might be a doctor around DU that could dispel that...

[elias7]

48. Oh my. The thimerisol link was dispelled as a hoax years ago

If you need help finding data, let me know.

[GoneFishin]

51. No problem. By whom was it dispelled? Link?

I am open to information because I don't know.

A lot of people here claim to know, but all they can come up with to support their position is bad attitude and supposition.

[AtheistCrusader]

59. For starters, they've removed it from all but the multi-dose vials

with no impact on autism rates. They continue to rise, even though that material is no longer in use in a large percentage of the vaccines. Some kids get none at all. No change in rates.

This has been going on for some time. If there was a causal link, there would have been SOME effect on the autism rate.

[rexcat]

69. I don't think using facts...

is going to work on this one!

[GoneFishin]

74. I agree. Thanks for the info. n/t

[rexcat]

68. Straw man arugument? Please....

Thimerosal was removed from pediatric vaccines since 2001 but some vaccines still have the compound added as an effective preservative. There is a difference between causation and correlation but that must be something you missed in your educational pursuits. Autism is still being diagnosed and with increased frequency despite thimerosal being removed from pediatric vaccines. The understanding of autism is increasing and it is believed to occur in-utero as "bad" wiring of the brain so it would seem that autism could start as early as neural tube development in the embryo. The link will take you to a publication concerning preservatives in pediatric vaccines: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/112/6/1394.full

You conveniently left out my argument concerning the dramatic decrease in childhood meningitis in this country. I suppose you think that a straw man argument also! It is a hell of lot cheaper to vaccinate the population than to treat the number of meningitis cases that used to be seen prior to the advent of those vaccines. The cost/benefit ratio is overwhelming. It is the same with the whooping cough vaccine and all the other vaccines available.

Pharmaceutical companies have and still have ethical issues. The cost of drugs is outrageous. Do you really understand why these companies can market the way they do. The could not market their drugs like they do today prior to 1994. That is when Bill Clinton made a compromise with Newt Gingrich as US Speaker of the House and allowed the pharmaceutical companies to mass market prescription drugs. This was a really bad idea and has morphed into the mess we see today. Currently over 50% of the "cost" of drug development is marketing. They get to market to what is essentially an uneducated populace, uneducated in the sciences and medicine. You just might belong in this category.

When these companies make bad ethical decisions more times than not they are eventually caught and some go to jail or/or banned from the industry. Unfortunately people who take those drugs that should not have been approved because data was withheld from the FDA are seriously hurt or die. If you were to look at the trends more drugs approved during Republican administrations are taken off the market vs. when a Democratic President is in office. One of the biggest problems with the FDA is having a Republican President. The last one (Bush2) weakened the agency by putting in a director that was not keen on regulation. Since the FDA is a regulatory agency it does not make sense to have a director that does not believe in regulation. The other problem is the Republicans in the House and Senate don't like regulations and they have done everything they can to weaken the FDA. Again, not a good scenario. Some of the blue dog Democrats are also a problem. The agency needs improvement but that is very difficult when you have people in the House and Senate who do not want a strong agency.

As I stated pharmaceutical companies also do good. That is not a straw man argument. Many drugs and vaccines on the market and in development do good and therefore have value to society. It is not a black and white issue as you want to make out to be but there is also a lot of gray in the mix.

[GoneFishin]

73. Yes. It is a straw man argument because that is a position you state yourself, not me, then

proceed to knock it down. The benefits of vaccines far outweigh the risks. I never made any statement to the contrary.

I agree with most, if not all, of your post so I won't go into it.

I read your information about when Thimerosal was removed from pediatric vaccines, and that is very helpful. Other posters also mentioned this fact.

If autism rates continue to climb at times when that is no longer present in vaccines then that is valuable evidence.

[rexcat]

80. For full disclosure....

I work in the pharmaceutical industry. I also do not trust these companies as far as I could throw them. I do the best I can in my position to keep things as clean and ethical as humanly possible. I am not the exception in the industry despite what people here on DU think but in any human endeavor you will find people who want to cut corners or become so bought into something that they loose perspective. The FDA has become a political football by the right wingers of this country and that is a dangerous proposition.

If I were to witness an unethical act by someone in the industry (hiding information from the FDA, fraud, etc.) I am obligated to report the incidence to my supervisor and/or go up the chain of command. If that did not work I am then obligated to go to the FDA. I would become a whistleblower at that point with all of its implications. The industry is trying to clean up its act but that is going to be a long and hard road to travel.

As far as cost of drugs in this country that is a sticky wicket of sorts. No industry other than utilities (and those are regulated by the States) have been dictated to what they can charge for their products. I would have no problem with price regulation but that is going to be difficult to do in this country. We see price regulation in Canada, Japan, Australia and the EU but for the most part they have a socialist bent. I am not saying that is bad since I am beyond liberal and if someone were to call me a socialist I would not be offended.

The more people are educated about the issues at hand the better. There needs to be a rational discussion concerning the pharmaceutical industry and most people, especially here on DU, don't really know or care about the underlying issues and problems within the pharmaceutical industry. It is more of gut reaction like what I perceived with your initial post that I commented to. Everyone knows there is a problem but they can't articulate the issues therefore discussing good solutions can't occur.

[GoneFishin]

84. Thanks for the helpful, thoughtful response. n/t

[paleotn]

11. Thus, you have no problem throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

...trust me, the big money is definitely NOT in vaccines and antibiotics.

[iamthebandfanman]

14. in fact

id say itd be in their best business interests to NOT have those things..
so they could continue to sell us CRAP that treats SYMPTOMS and not the illnesses themselves...

if theres one thing they love, its band aids.. not cures.

[jmowreader]

64. What do you have against Band-Aids?

I really wish someone would come up with a better name for the snake oil the pharma industry produces now, than band-aids. Band-Aids are very useful tools in the proper application. These drugs they're coming out with now? When the shit is only 45 percent more effective than the placebo in a double-blind study, that probably means it doesn't actually work.

[iamthebandfanman]

71. because band aids are temporary...

would be my guess as to why its a popular expression

sure, they do their job.. but if you ask me, a lot of drugs do their job at masking symptoms too... and if they cant do that, they put you to sleep at least lol

[GoneFishin]

53. I am not throwing anything out except unreliable sources of information.

You leap to unfounded conclusions because I admit that I don't know if there is a connection.

That point still stands.

[tclambert]

18. It is pretty clear that vaccinations have a connection to wiping out or greatly reducing polio,

measles, whooping cough, and smallpox. And fear of vaccination has a connection to resurgences of some of these diseases.

[GoneFishin]

25. I agree. My only point is that possible environmental causes for autism should be

studied open-mindedly, including anything that has changed in the formulation of childhood vaccines, dietary trends, etc..

[tclambert]

61. I'll agree with that, though most researchers seem inclined toward a genetic cause or causes,

so I wouldn't argue with concentrating the bulk of the research effort on genetics. Environmental issues may trigger gene expressions, so it may even come from a combination. And autism may not be just one thing. Doctors do recognize different sub-types, and they talk about Autism Spectrum Disorders.

Blaming vaccinations came about, I think, from the fact that autism diagnoses often occur around the time kids get vaccinated, and parents looking for a simple cause/effect relationship latched onto the vaccines as something unusual that happened around the same time as the diagnosis, though the child may have had the condition since birth. Then, too, some parents feel guilty if their "bad" genes caused problems for their children. Which is silly. Their genes are not their fault, and no one as yet can identify the "bad" genes or "bad" combination of genes responsible.

[GoneFishin]

75. The mental process of the parents around vaccination time makes sense.

This is true to human nature. Parents try to connect the dots, and naturally draw from events that are freshest in their minds.

Interesting. Thanks.

[madrchsod]

45. small pox is on it`s way back....

war torn countries in africa is seeing small pox come back. the biggest fear that it will spread into europe. after that...good luck world.

[longship]

54. Source, please. I think you are wrong.

AFAIK, smallpox is wiped out. It only exists in a freezer at CDC in Atlanta, or some place like that.

Once it did not exist in the wild, there is no way it can crop up again.

I think you may be thinking about polio in Africa, which has not been wiped out.

Just a small correction.

[tclambert]

56. I think you must be thinking of polio in Nigeria.

They had nearly eradicated polio when a rumor got started that Dick Cheney poisoned the vaccines in order to kill Muslims. Sadly, many people believed that Dick Cheney would do such a thing, and many Nigerian parents refused to get their children vaccinated. Polio came roaring back, setting the eradication effort back by about ten years.

Wild polio also still exists in (guess where?) Afghanistan and Pakistan. That causes a problem for neighboring India, since they can't afford the killed virus vaccine routinely used in America and Europe. India has to use the ten times cheaper weakened but still live virus vaccine, which very, very rarely causes polio itself in children with undiagnosed immune system deficiencies.

[rexcat]

70. And of course you have a reliable link...

From Wikipedia:

The last naturally occurring case of smallpox (Variola minor) was diagnosed on 26 October 1977.[

Smallpox is one of two infectious diseases to have been eradicated, the other being rinderpest, which was declared eradicated in 2011.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox

From the CDC:

Smallpox outbreaks have occurred from time to time for thousands of years, but the disease is now eradicated after a successful worldwide vaccination program. The last case of smallpox in the United States was in 1949. The last naturally occurring case in the world was in Somalia in 1977. After the disease was eliminated from the world, routine vaccination against smallpox among the general public was stopped because it was no longer necessary for prevention.

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox/overview/disease-facts.asp

You must be thinking of another disease, not small pox.

[Pharaoh]

20. Me too

I wonder what kind of money or stock from big pharma is involved.......

[HERVEPA]

30. Get a fucking clue!

[GoneFishin]

34. Thanks for your constructive and highly articulate input.

I am receptive to any objective non-big pharma hard data you have to share. But I suspect you have already shared everything you know about the subject.

[HERVEPA]

39. No study has shown any link. Ever here of polio? Salk Vaccine?

Wiped out polio almost completely. Your attitude will bring it back.

You're on the computer. Know why? Because of science.

This is not a big moneymaker for Pharma

People die because of not receiving vaccinations. Enough people don't and you lose herd immunity.

Do some research! I don't need to do your work for you.

Yeh, your attitude pisses me off because it's a no-nothing attitude and it doesn't just affect you.

[GoneFishin]

52. Really? Wanting more information will bring back polio? How does that work?

I have said nothing about skipping vaccines.

And the last time I scanned the posts here, no one else advocated that either. Those straw man arguments and hyperbole do nothing for your position.

I had supposed that you were able to read, but evidently you are just copying and pasting talking points for someone else.

[zebonaut]

5. There is an even better one in the series. Penn and Teller Vs the Bible:

Yep; they think its bullshit.....

[OhZone]

7. Do vaccinations give you an accurate list of ingredients?

Haven't gotten a vaccination for a while.

Do vaccinations give you an accurate list of ingredients?

You buy food products, you get a list on the side.

Do you get that when you get vacinated. Perhaps, the shots have done and will do far more good than bad, but why not list what toxins you're getting along with them.

And some still contain mercury.

Oh well.

[Gore1FL]

9. No one seems to be able to use the information usefully

But you can find it here:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm

Trust the scientists. They know more than the conspiracy theorists, including, but not limited to the chemistry and biology of it all.

[VanillaRhapsody]

28. that is exactly what my scientist sister in law says...

not the woo coming from the CTists

[GoneFishin]

37. Yeah, autism is just some fictional affliction imagined by CTs. n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

40. no one said imaginary did they?

we are talking about what does or doesn't cause it.

[GoneFishin]

55. Sorry. "Autism is some woo spread by CTs". I stand corrected.

[VanillaRhapsody]

57. No one said THAT either! The debate on woo...

the debate on woo....is whether it is caused by woo....not that it exists. Stop being silly....

Are YOU saying not one person who never got vaccinated was ever Autistic?


See how that works?

[GoneFishin]

72. Nope. Nor am I saying that not one person who was never exposed to high radiation levels

had cancer.

In fact, I have not drawn any conclusion except this : I am willing to admit that I don't know if there is a connection between childhood vaccinations and autism, and you are not.

Furthermore, this video is indicative that P & T have no proof. Their proof is "Fuck that. Total bullshit. It doesn't."

They then proceed to demonstrate that the benefits of vaccines far outweigh the risks, which I totally agree with.

But considering the resources they have, and the trouble that they went to create this video, and their evident commitment to the subject matter, they would have presented their proof if they had any. But they got nothing.

I like their passion, but "Fuck that. Total bullshit. It doesn't." is not proof.

[AtheistCrusader]

76. It's a burden of proof thing.

You start from a position of vaccines, and no reason to suspect a link at all to a then-non-understood condition.

Someone makes a positive claim; vaccines, at least in some cases, can cause autism.

Ok, what happens now is, the person making the claim must support it. It is not the rest of the world's burden to disprove the claim. The claim must be substantiated by the claimant or an ally, or independent party.



So far, no credible studies have shown a serious link of any type.
Therefore, the default position, until someone proves otherwise, is that vaccines do not cause autism.

[GoneFishin]

79. Agreed. But they open with the thesis about autism then prove something else.

They are illusionists and they do it well. They proved one important point, while conflating it with a related but not entirely established fact.

It took me a minute to figure out what they had done. Others will never figure it out even after it is explained to them.

[VanillaRhapsody]

83. What?

there is NO science that proves the correlation between autism and vaccines.

[VanillaRhapsody]

82. ^^^THIS^^^

[progressoid]

10. Not really.

Only multi-dose flu vaccines contain Thimerosal.

A tuna sandwich has 5 times more mercury than 1 dose of flu vaccine. A breastfed baby gets 25 times more mercury from breast milk in 6 months than what is in 1 dose of flu vaccine. And lets not forget herbal teas.

Does your can of Tuna or your herbal tea list it's mercury content?

[OhZone]

16. hmmm

Well, I can't say I really know, but there is a lot of debate over the type of mercury and how it is metabolized. Also there are other preservatives and toxins in non-mercury vaccines.

I probably would take a vaccine for a new plague or something but a yearly flu vaccine worries me.

Perhaps I am silly, but my trust is very low for mainstream medicine when every prescription med "may cause death." And doctors don't even take care of themselves. Oh well.

[zeemike]

24. But you don't inject tuna into your blood stream

At least I don't.
100% of it goes into the tissue when injected, not so with eating it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

29. You do know things you eat get into your bloodstream right?

[zeemike]

42. And what don't comes out in the toilet.

What goes into the bloodstream has to pass through a lot of filters...and not everything passes.
You can eat a certain amount of arsenic with no harmful effects, but I would not suggesting injecting that same amount.

[longship]

78. Neither are vaccines.

Vaccines are NOT injected into people's blood streams. They are injected into the muscle.

Also, the mercury in vaccines is methyl, which the body has the ability to eliminate naturally. Plus, there's the overwhelming fact that eating a single tuna fish sandwich likely gives more mercury into your body than a vaccine jab.

Smoke that into your pipe and put it.

[adieu]

12. And how much do you know of vaccines

To make sense of any of the ingredients listed?

[OhZone]

17. Oopps!

OHMY! Can you make sense of aluminum and formaldehyde!?

Doesn't take much to know these are toxic!

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/vaccine-decision/ingredients.html

But just trust! Thalidomide anyone? DDT anyone? Yeah, just trust!

Uh huh.

Oh well.

[DireStrike]

19. here

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/toxic-myths-about-vaccines/

[Gore1FL]

32. Yes Trust.

The mixture of chemicals is in the right dosage and the right amounts to make the vaccine effective.

Until a chemist an d biologist can come up with real evidence of harm, I can only assume there is none.

I trust the experts on global warming, too.

[adieu]

47. You've just demonstrated your ignorance on the subject

Anyone talking about the toxicity of something without mentioning the quantity is plain ignorant. Everything in life, including water and oxygen, can be toxic at a high enough quantity. Just by saying, "Aluminum is toxic" or "formaldehyde is toxic" without describing how much of it is needed to kill a person is just being chicken little.

The fact is clear: vaccines have helped prevent so many deaths in the past 70 years that the main cause for the population growth among all people on earth is strictly due to the fact that people are dying later in life, and that's a good thing. Birth rates are dropping in every country, including countries in Africa, yet the population of humans grow because we're not dying as quickly as we used to. And vaccines has been a key factor in keeping us alive.

You're being willfully ignorant or just plain stupid to ignore all the positives that vaccines have given to humanity. The link between vaccines and autism is specious. Heck, it's downright fraud. Autism probably existed in humans way before vaccines were discovered. Back then, life was cheap and autism kids were probably just thrown away.

[AtheistCrusader]

60. Would you eat an organic apple?

If so, you'd eat formaldehyde. Doesn't matter how shiny, ripe and organic it might be. It contains methanol. Which your body metabolizes down into formaldehyde.

And you'll get more formaldehyde from that apple, than you would drinking 6 cans of diet coke. (Aspartame also breaks down into formaldehyde)

Dosage is important. It means something.

[Pharaoh]

21. and........

doesn't it just atrophy the immune system by trying to do it's job for it?

[VanillaRhapsody]

31. well how did those immune systems do before the vaccines?

[MrMickeysMom]

36. Actually, I don't think they faired much differently...

However, due to clean water, hygiene, food and drug regulation and infection control methods, we have a longer life these days. Not sure about the quality from several generations back from me (I'm a boomer and a respiratory therapist for 39 years across the continuum of care in 3 different states).

I just read the fine lines of my "re-education" exercise today, as this measure is taken with those who wish to forgo the flu shot. I'm getting a lot of pressure. However, my giant health care system is very careful to describe what "may" happen if I don't get the flu vaccines. I got MMR vaccinations as a child, and for some strange reason got exposed to HVC about 20 years ago. I somehow fought it off and measure viral load and limit my love of beer now and again. I don't want to screw with anything except to continue to continue healthful lifestyle stuff.

The CDC… same one… also has presented some studies that show a connection to vaccinations and likelihood of getting H1N1 swine flu. Call me whatever you may, I'm not convinced I should have one. I'm pretty damned good about what I do with patients on the infection control measures.

[VanillaRhapsody]

41. REALLY?

I haven't seen anyone with Small Pox or Polio lately have you?

[madrchsod]

44. or the german measles....

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1104.aspx?CategoryID=54

[VanillaRhapsody]

46. Duh...forgot about that one...

and now they are working on irradicating Chicken Pox....

[MrMickeysMom]

49. What's your point?

That if I'm a good girl and keep getting vaccinated that we'll wipe out influenza?

[AtheistCrusader]

62. Difficult to say.

That one evolves pretty quickly, and the vaccine makers are always trying to guess which strain will be the 'big' one that year, sometimes with mixed results.

I suggest the flu vaccine for a couple reasons but it is not absolute:

1. If you are very young, up to say, 20. Children are very susceptible to it, and teens can have crazy autoimmune responses to it, called a cytokine storm. That's where your immune system hulks out and kills not only the invader, but your own organs too. So, young-to 20, I'd definitely get it, and I'm getting it for my child.
2. If you are very old. Studies are mixed on the efficacy of this, at the moment, but seem to be leaning in favor.
3. If you frequently come into contact with the very young, or very old. (Teacher, retirement home worker, family member, etc)
4. If you frequently come into contact with sick people. (Medical center receptionist, nurse, etc.)
5. If you frequently come into contact with someone whom you know to have an autoimmune disorder.

Sometimes it's about yourself, sometimes it's about other people. At this point I wouldn't call current influenza vaccine efforts a serious stab at wiping it out, because there are too many strains, too many vectors, and it evolves and transmits too quickly. I can't even imagine what a full herd immunity vaccination program for the flu would look like, but in the future, that may be within grasp.

[VanillaRhapsody]

65. Just might!

you will most certainly be less likely to spread influenza to anyone else....you know people die from it right?

[MrMickeysMom]

66. I know more than the average person about that...

As an ICU and ER respiratory therapist, now in diagnostics, I know about the epidemiology.

[VanillaRhapsody]

67. My Sister in Law is a BioEngineer....she hasn't advised me to not vaccine.

if SHE did I would listen....she hasn't.

[MrMickeysMom]

77. I know bio engineers, too...

And I wouldn't think to seek their advice on this, but would on many other things.

For the record…

Seasonal Flu Vaccine Could Increase Future H1N1 Infection Risk
This is not the first study questioning vaccine effectiveness based on repeated annual influenza vaccination. In fact, there is a large body of literature examining the impact of previous use of seasonal trivalent flu vaccines on the risk of contracting the 2009 pandemic H1N1 swine flu.
In 2010, PLoS Medicine published an analysis of Canadian epidemiological studies suggesting that people, who had received seasonal flu shots the year before the 2009 H1N1 swine flu pandemic, had an increased risk of becoming infected with the pandemic swine flu.
During the spring 2009 pandemic H1N1 virus wave, investigators noted a link between prior receipt of the trivalent inactivated influenza vaccine during the 2008-09 season and fever/cough illness. In response, they conducted four follow-up epidemiologic studies (three case-control studies and one household transmission study) during the summer of 2009 to further explore the original finding.
Studies Identify Flu Vaccine Failures
Findings from one of the case-control studies showed that prior vaccination with trivalent inactivated influenza vaccine is protective against seasonal influenza and reduced the flu risk by 56 percent. However, results from all four studies revealed that those vaccinated in the previous 2008-09 season were between 1.4 and 2.5 times more likely to contract H1N1 during the spring and summer of 2009. 3
A second study in 2009 identified a similar association between previous vaccination and pandemic H1N1 illness in a military population. Between April 21 and May 8, a total of 97 patients developed the H1N1 virus. Of these, 63 people, or 66 percent, received the influenza vaccination in the previous 12 months. In comparison, only 40 percent of patients without H1N1 virus had no history of vaccination. 4
In Nov. 13, 2009, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention published a case-cohort study on the effectiveness of 2008-09 trivalent influenza vaccine against 2009 pandemic H1N1. The CDC concluded that there was no decreased or increased risk of pandemic H1N1 following seasonal flu vaccine. 5
Doctors Intrigued and Troubled by Findings
In an accompanying editorial, Drs. John Treanor and Peter Szilagyi wrote a response to the findings for the most recent study showing lower effectiveness with back-to-back flu shots.
“As we are currently struggling through one of the most vigorous influenza seasons in recent memory, the apparent failure of influenza vaccine under optimal conditions seen in this study is indeed troubling,” they wrote. 6
As usual, further study on flu vaccine effectiveness is necessary. There are a lot of conflicting data available. However, the growing number of studies showing low overall effectiveness, waning immunity and a negative effect of prior-year vaccination cast doubt on influenza vaccine policies and strategies, especially when influenza vaccinations now are being required as a condition of employment for health care workers.
References:

1 CDC. Interim Adjusted Estimates of Seasonal Influenza Vaccine Effectiveness—United States, February 2013. MMWR Feb. 22, 2013; 62:119-23.
2 Ohmit SE, Petrie JG, Malosh RE, et al. Influenza Effectiveness in the Community and the Household. Clinical Infectious Diseases Feb. 14, 2013.
3 Skowronski DM, De Serres G, Crowcroft NS, et al. Association between the 2008-09 Seasonal Influenza Vaccine and Pandemic H1N1 Illness during Spring-Summer 2009: Four Observational Studies from Canada. PLoS Med 2010; 7(4).
4 Crum-Cianflone NF, Blair PJ, Faix D, et al. Clinical and Epidemiologic Characteristics of an Outbreak of Novel H1N1 (Swine Origin) Influenza A Virus Among United States Military Beneficiaries. Clinical Infectious Diseases 2009; 49:1801-10.
5 CDC. Effectiveness of 2008-09 Trivalent Influenza Vaccine Against 2009 Pandemic Influenza A (H1N1)---United States, May-June 2009. MMWR Nov. 13, 2009; 58 (44):1241-5.
6 Treanor JJ and Szilagyi P. Influenza Vaccine: Glass Half Full or Half Empty? Clinical Infectious Diseases Feb. 14, 2013.

[VanillaRhapsody]

81. I don't just know one....I'm related to one...

She has a PhD. in BioEngineering. If it were unsafe she would advise me not to vaccinate. She has a breastfed newborn that IS being vaccinated.

Just sayin'

[Gore1FL]

33. No....

It gives the ability to fight the disease to the immune system.

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/vaccines/understanding/pages/howwork.aspx

[AtheistCrusader]

63. Exactly. Vaccines are just Wanted Posters, for your immune system.

You're just giving your immune system a picture of what the bad guy looks like. That's all. It's still up to your immune system to drag it down an alley and snuff it, if it can, or get trampled. You're just giving it a head start on the identification process.

[svpadgham]

38. Has there been any study regarding

Unvaccinated children with ASD? I'm sure those kids exist as well, and I wonder what the parents place the blame on in those cases.

[madrchsod]

43. total bullshit and a very dangerous message

i am very tolerant of others peoples views but the anti vac people i have 0 respect for. if they do`t want to vac thier children fine just do`t expose others to your ignorance.

[MrMickeysMom]

50. Does this extend itself to yearly flu vaccination, once you're through childhood recommended ones?

As one who was vaccinated as many were in my generation, I also acquired chic pox, measles and mumps.

But yearly flu vaccinations for everybody?

[lunasun]

58. Libertatian Anti government loudmouth

“Better to be uneducated than educated by your government.”

― Penn Jillette,

[Iggo]

85. He's right, though. Anti-vax is bullshit.