Footage - Right Sector throwing the Petrol Bombs causing the massacre

[newthinking]

There are people here and in the media trying to blame the fire on those who were killed. There is clear footage. Not only did they throw the fire bombs, but they **continued** to add gas to the fire after it was well under fire. There were chants of "Death to the enemies". And afterwards there was a celibration at the site.

Sick fuckers.

[newthinking]

1. Here is the celebration afterwards -Singing and chanting "Perfect!" as the bodies are taken away

And a picture of the preparation beforehand. Why are these pictures not all over the media? They certainly would have been if it were the other way around?

They sing and shout celebratory saying "Molodetz!, which means "Right!, or Perfect! as the charred bodies are taken away.

[Duckhunter935]

2. does not help things when

some are firing on the crowds below with firearms.

Both sides are to blame

[newthinking]

4. Thanks for the bias - That bottom fella never took a shot

(according to accounts I have found so far)

But yes, there were people killed on **both** sides by gunfire at the "rallies" in the center. Both sides, and we don't know which picture came before/after which event.

So thanks for making things just a little murkier.

It helps to know some Ukrainian or Russian, do research using local web sites and other local sources, as I do, before you declare something as truth, especially when there is a massacre and neo-nazi's involved.

[Duckhunter935]

5. and you know this how?

can you link to where he never shoots? I would like to have that information.

the ones on the roof did and it appears to be before the fire started.

[newthinking]

6. The roof was indeed before the fire. But we don't know if that was a reaction or the start

Knowing more of the story that is purposely not always allowed out of Ukraine (Media in Ukraine is *heavily* controlled by threat of harm (Svoboda is in charge of the media), that right sector is extremely active and violent, makes me suspect it was likely not in this case the "federalists" (secessionists, anti-maidan, whatever we want to call them)

I will have to dig up the references to his "threatening" to fire. It was actually in one of the western press that it was reported as such, but I can't remember which. I am trying to get better at organizing information but it is not something I am natural with.

It helps to have Ukrainian friends and know the country. But the info is out there but not always easy to get at the details away from the carefully filtered viewpoints.

Probably the best factor is not to take the mass media as accurate , because unfortunately they really are not.

Basically, the better you know the search engines... Use twitter. If you don't know the language electronic translation is not perfect but getting better.

Google translate.
https://translate.google.com

Translate words and then search with them: Search for things like "Odessa" (Одесса , Maidan (майдан , anti-maidan (анти-майдан the common Ukrainian/Russian term for what we call "pro-Russians&quot , ( Right Sector (Право Сектор

Then be sure to select Advanced --> and "within the last 24 hours" or whatever date range is appropriate.

"Одесса site:.ua" (ua. is Ukraine's domain) tends to bring up some local sites.

Then comes the fun part: All the interests are very internet aware, so you have to be careful and try to find local reports from local media.

I know it is not easy but it is really the only way to get a good picture with rapidly moving events and awful, biased geopolitical reporting.

[Duckhunter935]

7. OK

both sources have there bias.
RT on one side and Kiev on the other.

(Media in Ukraine is *heavily* controlled by threat of harm (Svoboda is in charge of the media), that right sector is extremely active and violent, makes me suspect it was likely not in this case the "federalists" (secessionists, anti-maidan, whatever we want to call them)

You lose me there though, You automatically are giving one side a pass even when video shows them shooting and throwing rocks on people doing nothing. The right sector must be everywhere and in charge of the entire government. As far as I know the Kiev government has said they will give in to most of the demands made in the East other than letting them join Russia.

I am curious on who and where the dead are that were in the building, I would assume that will come out shortly. It will not look good if they are not local to Odessa.

You really think the press is free in the East and not controlled? It is not violent what has happened in the East? How many officials and reporters are being held hostage by both sides?

Do you think the vote planned on 11 May will be fair and free? How about the countrywide election scheduled for the end of the month?

[newthinking]

8. They are being painted as from Transneistra, but there have been plenty of such false flags going on

and I have yet to see a site actually offer evidence of this. Besides, "Transniestra" is not only a seperated part of Ukraine, but Transneistra is also the name of the entire North-West region, so there could be word play going on as well.

I have followed Odessa for a while. In a lot of ways they are closer to what Crimea is than the West of Ukraine. In public most people speak Russian there. They seem to me more "live and let live" but from what I have read and heard the area has been divided since the events of February. So to paint the anti-maidan there as non existant or made up of Russians does their people a disservice.

And No, I do not think the press is free in the East. But I don't think we should be surprised that militants have been the primary force in the Donetsk region. The population is basically in terror (whether people feel that is overreacting or not it is the reality of where they are at). Most of them are likely afraid of what will happen to them or their families. They have seen a lot of video clips of Right Sector in Kyiv and other places beating and threatening people who they did not like.

[Warpy]

12. The best reporting I've read so far is fromt the BBC

and they appear to consider all sides reprehensible in their conduct, so they're not taking anyone's side. Everybody else seems to have a dog in this fight, so they have to be taken with a pound of salt.

Anyone who has witnessed a riot knows they evolve along lines that are never planned and that they damage or kill anything or anyone in their way.

There was a huge police presence as the riot was starting to evolve. There was no notable police presence at the Trade Union Building, where most of the deaths on both sides would appear to have occurred.

[zeemike]

3. Yes but Putin...

So those sick fuckers are justified...and we must be on their side.

[KoKo]

10. Please don't forget the sarcasm tag...

(if that's what I think you intended)

In heated situation like this...your answer could be misinterpreted.

I hope I got it correctly.

[zeemike]

13. The problem with the sarcasm tag

Is that it takes the punch out of the sarcasm...But yes you got it right.

[KoKo]

11. You might want to explain that?

[LarryNM]

14. Wondered why MSM wasn't covering this much Today

Very little if any coverage on their "news" and no lead in at all. You can bet that if they had photos/info
showing the Right Sector and their democratic freedom fighting ilk being "victimized" at the hands of
"pro-Russian Insurgents", that they would have this on 24/7 with bemoaning comment. The EU, AID, etc.
Sponsored destabilization of Ukraine and Putin's opportunistic response leave Ukrainians who want what's
best for Ukraine unrepresented and Out of Luck. All to the betterment of Global Corporatists who are after more
of Ukraine's Natural Resources.

[newthinking]

15. The fire killings are pretty clear, but the events leading to it are still sorting

It does appear that there were shots on both sides and both groups had people killed. But who and what started it I still have not seen a completely reliable version of.

[uhnope]

16. what else does Putin want us to think?