Salon: Rand Paul just wrecked his ’16 campaign: Watch his awful Eric Garner answer

[Derek V]

Joan Walsh writes:

Journalists and comedians want an entertaining 2016 presidential race, and I’m sympathetic. I know people are going to prop up some folks I can’t get behind, but it’s all fair. Libertarian-minded liberals will say nice things about Sen. Rand Paul, and so might independent-minded folks like MSNBC’s Chris Matthews.

And most days, I think that’s great. Rand Paul would be an interesting major candidate in the 2016 Republican primaries. I like some of what he says about criminal justice reform. I’m glad he wants to reach out to, rather than disenfranchise, African-Americans. He’s not the worst potential GOP candidate.

But Paul’s response to Chris Matthews Wednesday about the Eric Garner tragedy shows that, for all his lovely words about African-Americans and criminal justice excess, he’s a standard-issue libertarian whose top issue will always be taxes. He’ll always be an anti-tax libertarian first and foremost, before he’s a civil rights libertarian.

[DeSwiss]

1. So-called American ''Libertarians''......

...aren't libertarians at all. They're fascists with ''freedom-loving'' leanings. They have co-opted and then bastardized the liberal precepts of libertarianism beyond recognition. But then in an uneducated society such as ours, it is the reason why politicians and others can dupe ''we the people'' so thoroughly and frequently.

- We don't from squat.

K&R

"Noam Chomsky": Q&A Why you can not have a Capitalist Democracy.

''History is important. If you don't know history it is as if you were born yesterday. And if you were born yesterday, anybody up there in a position of power can tell you anything, and you have no way of checking up on it.'' ~Howard Zinn

[Man from Pickens]

2. not as crazy as it might sound at first

realize he's first got to win his own party's nomination - that's the audience he's focused on

should he manage that feat he'll have plenty of time to tack back to the center for a general election

note the other answer he gives (contains "Hillary's War&quot - he clearly expects to be matched up against Clinton, he's already campaigning against her specifically

Do not underestimate this guy, he is a far more dangerous opponent than politician-in-a-box types like Bush and Christie. Paul and Walker are the two most likely GOP nominees IMO.

[Thespian2]

3. Paul

is asked about the appalling decision about yet another police murder. Police have a mandate, it seems, to kill black people freely. Very much like Australia's past where killing an aboriginal was sport, not illegal. So, when POS Paul is asked about the Grand Jury no true bill, he talks about politicians taxing cigarettes. Does anyone know what this has to do with a white cop murdering a black Eric Garner (The video clearly shows the cop did commit murder)?

[drynberg]

5. EXACTLY

[Sienna86]

4. Actually not too crazy

He said it was horrific but blamed high taxes on cigarettes and politicians directing police to target these petty crimes.

If anything, this should have been a ticket not an arrest.

[Dawgs]

9. That's why it was stupid.

Incredibly poor timing.

[A Simple Game]

13. And certainly not an arrest involving 6 or 8 cops.

Just how do you justify that cost, not to mention the unnecessary death, for the possibility of a few dollars worth of uncollected taxes?

The fact of that many cops being in on what should be a citation or simple arrest would tell me that NYC has too many police, time to at least weed out the bad ones.

I often see a mob mentality in these situations where cops try to out "cop" each other by being more aggressive and showing off when there are too many in on an arrest. The mob gives them false courage by the safety in numbers effect. The same with guns, they too give cowards courage.

[jamzrockz]

6. I know this is not going to be popular

for me to say this. But raising the taxes on something poor people enjoy and then making it a crime to go around said taxes will lead to more confrontations between poor people who are suspected of violating this law and the police. Everybody understands this when it comes to the drug war but somehow we supposed to believe the laws on the book with regards to penalties on selling out of state cigs play no role whatsoever with incidents like this.

This is what they call unintended consequences, laws done with the best of intentions in mind to help pressure people to quit smoking while providing funds for social causes like education and welfare will lead to situations like this and death.

This particular sentiment is echoed in many African American barbing shops. This few people that cannot see the connections are apparently very rich, connected people.

[Thespian2]

7. Not Popular

[Leopolds Ghost]

8. I hate to say it but

Affluent liberals (and affluent whites in general) don't care if poor people get stopped for petty crimes like CIGARETTES = VICE because there is the unspoken understanding that THEY will not get stopped, that the laws on cigarettes, jaywalking, parking an untagged automobile in their driveway, grand theft from corporate or city coffers, etc. etc. will not be imposed on THEM. Can you imagine the outrage if it WAS?

So no, I don't see the outrage here on Salon's part. It's all part and parcel of a police state. If they don't understand that at Salon, then they're primping for a Hillary run. To paraphrase R. Crumb:

[div class="excerpt" style="height:180px"][div style="float:left"][div style="float:left;padding-left:8px"]"But look who else is running! It's Mr. Zip! Big Brother himself!"

"Keep your asshole clenched at all times."

"Never fear, Mr. Natural is running too!"[div style="clear:both"]

[cheapdate]

10. Anybody who thinks this "wrecks" Rand Paul fundamentally doesn't understand where conservative

America is at.

[demwing]

11. Yeah, I was expecting something shocking

where Paul blamed the victim, or used some racially charged rhetoric.

If this had any net affect on Paul at all, it probably helped.

[951-Riverside]

12. He's right and I agree with him

Quote:

Obviously, the individual circumstances are important, but I think it’s also important to know that some politician put a tax of $5.85 on a pack of cigarettes, so they've driven cigarettes underground by making them so expensive.

But then some politician also had to direct the police to say, 'Hey, we want you arresting people for selling a loose cigarette.' And for someone to die over breaking that law, there really is no excuse for it. But I do blame the politicians, we've put the police in a bad situation with bad laws.

Its absurd that we're wasting money and resources on ARRESTING people for selling loose cigarettes. The offense should be a ticket at the most.

"Cite and release".

[vkkv]

14. Politicians' fault.. Yah, Libertarians would be SO MUCH better!

"Libertarianism" sounds good, sounds like 'freedom'. And it is sort of:

* Freedom for corporations to buy up competing businesses and monopolize control of a single market. (Yes, I know, it's already happening with the GOP Congress we've had.)

* Freedom for corporations to bilk you with no legal remedies for you.

* Freedom for corporations to buy up and privatize beach front land - sorry, um, what's a surfboard?

* Freedom for corporations to build enormous hotels in the middle of a high elevation, pristine meadow (say Tuolumne?).

* Freedom for sub-corporations to pollute your rivers, lakes and public water with toxins, go bankrupt, leave the mess to you while the umbrella corporation reaps all the profits. Oh wait, this is already happening, too, thanks to the G.O.P.!

* Freedom for corporations to track your every online movement, it's for the good of business and the economy of course. (see Ebay and Facebook).

* Freedom for your crazy neighbor to own as many firearms as he wants - ah, but you get to shoot him with your AR-15 after he's already killed your kids, yay, revenge is so sweet!

* Freedom for doctors not to treat an emergency patient because they don't have the right insurance, or enough, or no cash, no credit card, no house to seize.

* Freedom to sue the person who has no auto insurance and no money who hits your car because your insurance no longer offers "uninsured motorist coverage" because under a libertarian government no one is legally required to buy liability insurance - yay!

* No EPA to slowdown the installation of a furnace to burn all of your garbage when someone else's house is downwind. This is especially great news for the hazardous waste creators like chemical factories, forges, tire dumps and hospitals.

* No messing with any unions!

* "Stand your ground" will the be the law of the land. But, most of the land will be owned by mega-corporations.

* No maternity leave pay!

* Privatized courts will always let you win as long as you're supplying the payroll.

* Privatized police forces will keep you safe from the other privatized police forces. You need "protection", right?

* Rand Paul would look really good with a Hitler mustache, don't you think?

[freshwest]

19. vkkv...

[creoledna]

15. Simply Put:

Last edited Fri Dec 5, 2014, 04:34 PM - Edit history (1)

This was an immoral act. Rationalize all you want but a man was killed for no good reason. The killers have various levels of involvement and responsibility for his death for which they may have escaped punishment by our Judicial System, but they will pay a price as lesser humans.

[jalan48]

16. Health Costs Associated with Smoking

So who is supposed to pay for the increased health costs associated with smoking in Mr. Rand's world? Let them die in the streets? Or should we tax cigarettes to the point where people opt not to smoke due the cost?

[Major Nikon]

17. Does anyone north of a room temperature IQ expect a slavery apologist to be a civil libertarian?

The dude palls around with shitstain overt racists like Jack Hunter, yet has somehow managed to convince some that he's a champion of liberty.

[RoccoR5955]

18. The bastard never stood a chance. n/t