Witness claims Ukrainian jet shot down MH17 by mistake.

[another_liberal]

[Duckhunter935]

1. running many OPs on this

Facts do not seem to matter. What is the max altitude of an SU25? Below MH17. What type of seeker does the missile have? IR seeker with 7 pound warhead. To small for a passenger plane and would have taken out one of the engines IE heat source. A Boeing 777 could fly and land on the remaining engine.

Even RT says alleged meaning even they do not even believe it

[another_liberal]

7. Like I've said before . . .

You may be accurate in your technical arguments, and you may be completely wrong.

I am waiting for an unbiased, internationally neutral panel of experts on such matters to reach a meaningful conclusion. No offense intended, of course.

[uhnope]

11. Yep, the usual insulting BS from the Putin squad polluting DU

with their Russia Wants Peace crap. You'd think they'd give a rest for Xmas--oh that's right, Russians celebrate on Jan.6 so nevermind

[hobbit709]

2. Posting the same drivel over and over and expecting different results.

[SkyDaddy7]

3. YEP. nt.

[another_liberal]

6. You do recognize the difference between a video post and an text post, right?

That is why DU has different Forums for the two kinds of media.

[hobbit709]

8. SAME BS, just different media.

[Ford_Prefect]

4. Why do we believe RT?

Again, why do we believe RT?

Just for emphasis I'll ask again, Why do we believe RT?

I don't know who shot it down, or how many variations will be spun but this is not a source I would expect to believe any more than FOX news.

[another_liberal]

5. I don't "believe" anybody . . .

But I do want all the evidence available to be examined by neutral investigators (not NATO dupes) before this matter is declared closed. A number of people are clearly guilty of a heinous crime, and those people are the ones who should be punished, not just some politically expedient scapegoats.

[Duckhunter935]

9. So who would you trust?

only Russia or Russia's paid lackeys? I more trust the international community that is open and that does tend to include NATO countries since that is most of western Europe's democracies.

I will even trust Russia if it allows the data to be peer reviewed and open to all.

[DeSwiss]

13. Pathetic. n/t

[Jack Rabbit]

10. I like many things on RT, but its coverage of the invasion of the Ukraine isn't one of them

I follow Abby Martin, Thom Hartmann and Max Keiser, all with a critical eye, and I'm not embarrassed to say so.

On the other hand, part of RT's mission is to get us to believe that everything Putin tells us about his imperialist misadventure in Ukraine is the gospel truth, which means that it isn't happening and, furthermore, is completely justified to protect Russians living in Crimea and Dontesk.

We've been following Putin for fifteen years now, and any sensible person knows that Putin's veracity has never been worth what a ruble is worth these days. I really don't know what Putin really believes. Perhaps he's really an Islamophobe and a homophobe, or perhaps he's just a rank demagogue pretending he is in order to gain favor with Russia's equivalent of the Tea Party in order to cover his election rigging and murder of Russian journalists, even those who fled the country.

I'm sure there's a solution to Putin, but at a minimum it involves the Russian people giving him very secure government housing, complete with iron bars on all the doors and windows so a lynch mob can't just storm in and give him the justice he really deserves. Because we are humane and civilized, he'll get free meals in a government mess for the rest of his life, although the borscht will taste like Spartan black soup.

[uhnope]

12. Russia celebrates Xmas on Jan 6 so I guess Dec.24 and 25 are fair game

I thought maybe the Putin/RT brigada would give it a rest for Xmas but then I remembered...