Thomm Hartmann - The Ukraine Proxy & the New Cold War

[newthinking]

The Ukraine Proxy & the New Cold War

[uhnope]

1. interview with Stephen Cohen, Putin apologist, who scoffs at the political murders in Russia

Horribly insulting, sir, for you to post this so soon after the murder of Putin's opponent Nemtsov. Have a little dignity.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/03/pathetic-lives-of-putins-american-dupes.html

The Pathetic Lives of Putin’s American Dupes

The most prominent intellectual apologist for Putin is Stephen F. Cohen, Princeton professor, Russologist for the left-wing Nation. Cohen is a septuagenarian, old-school leftist who has carried on the mental habits of decades of anti-anti-communism seamlessly into a new career of anti-anti-Putinism. The Cohen method is to pick away at every indictment of the Russian regime without directly associating himself with its various atrocities. Is Putin persecuting gays? Well, Cohen wants us to know that various Ukrainians nationalists dislike gays, too. And also Barack Obama’s claim to snub Sochi because of gay rights is probably not on the level. Is Putin bullying and killing journalists? Eh, says Cohen, “Every time a journalist breaks a leg, they say the Kremlin did it.” Accidents happen.

[doxyluv13]

2. If you want to know what's happening really happening in Ukraine, this is is invaluable

Thanks so much for posting this. Though, the European press is beginning to cover both sides of the conflict, anyone getting their news from U.S. sources probably needs Dr. Cohen's perspective. One thing he mentions that rings true--none of the American reporters in Russia or Ukraine are actually reporting the news, they're just reading press releases (i.e. spin) from the Ukrainian government, or the State Dept.

[zeemike]

3. Thanks for posting this.

This kind of intelligent conversation about Ukraine you will not find in the MSM.

[stonecutter357]

6. Putin

Putin is a thug......:and rt is his propaganda machine.

[KoKo]

7. Recommend...always good to read diverse viewpoints on controversial subjects

[libodem]

8. Agree!

[mother earth]

9. K & R, as usual, always so much more involved than meets the eye.

[KoKo]

10. The Best of Thom asking questions and Cohen explaining his views more clearly............

Hope those interested will give it a Full Watch...whether you agree or disagree...and IF YOU DISAGREE...

Please DISCUSS...because WHY!

[JonLP24]

11. The US is very dishonest and omit a lot regarding this armed conflict

They seem way too interest into picking a side in all this. There are some very pressing human rights concerns in South Sudan & CAR. Regarding the rebels in South Sudan they may be truly independent which is remarkable in comparison how many countries are already involved in picking sides in Syria.

However, we should know by now that when the US is very interested in an armed conflict their motive is primarily economic. The far right Kleptocracies took the place of communism regarding post-cold war governments. Russia suffered a constitutional crisis, had a very troubling economy which has since recovered, privatized the hell out of it, obligarchies took & sustained power. It is also very corrupt with organized crime with hooks into it.

Like Russia, Ukraine has received their fair share of "shock therapy" but their economy is in shambles, the country is incredible fragile & the way the government is structured it is just begging for corruption or manipulation of government powers for personal gain, especially financial. Some of the wealthy politicians don't even live there,

Ukraine, they're obviously still suffering from a Constitutional crisis given that judges who were dismissed for "oath violations" are put back on the bench when the rival political coalition gains back power but they also constantly have "early elections", hardly any seperation of powers especially regarding the courts & law enforcement is centrally operated from government.

far right Obligarchs took power (or for the most part regarding the two nations the wealthy elite), the current ruling political coalition is certainly to the right of political compass with several far right factions allied, despite the numerous political parties -- coalitions form due to the reasons being presented right in front of us which is why everything is so heavily centralized. Ukraine badly needs an Independent Constitution Convention to create one that sticks, with seperation of powers & perhaps a Regional state government solution would settle a lot of disputes given that it is a pretty big country & it is a fight to control it all (Ukraine's parliament literally had brawls take place).

Like the "Mafia State", organized crime very much has its hooks into it all especially with all the bribing. Its almost like nothing can't done without a bribe. -- http://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraine

I highly recommend their corruption scores -- Judicial Independence, the 140th ranked country.
http://reports.weforum.org/global-competitiveness-report-2014-2015/economies/#economy=UKR

The excepts from "Ukraine at a Crossroads" (from 2008) has a good handle on things & highly recommend it for those legitimately interested in independent information regarding the overall state of the country.
http://books.google.com/books?id=GYfXtvCujQMC&pg=PA43&dq=Ukraine%27s+political+system+weak&hl=nl&ei=2KtZTdjAC5CbOrOolbgF&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=Ukraine%27s%20political%20system%20weak&f=false

Forget the armed conflict for a moment, what about the protests?

I was duped regarding Afghanistan, never seen the war as illegitimate (however a soldier I went to basic, in the same RA unit who later deployed there said it was more dangerous regarding transportation, Iraq 95%+ of the time they just lay a bomb while complex attacks are routine)

he encrypted document, which is dated October 6, and believed to be current, can be found on the Pentagon Central Command (CENTCOM) website oneteam.centcom.mil. [UPDATE: Fri Feb 27 15:18:38 GMT 2009, the entire Pentagon site is now down--probably in response to this editorial, parts of the site can still be seen in Google's cache ]

The encryption password is progress, which perhaps reflects the Pentagon's desire to stay on-message, even to itself.

Among the revelations, which we encourage the press to review in detail, is Jordan's presence as secret member of the US lead occupation force, the ISAF.

Jordan is a middle eastern monarchy, backed by the US, and historically the CIA's closest partner in its extraordinary rendition program. "the practice of torture is routine" in the country, according to a January 2007 report by UN special investigator for torture, Manfred Nowak.[1]

The document states NATO spokespersons are to keep Jordan's involvement secret. Publicly, Jordan withdrew in 2001 and the country does not appear on this month's public list of ISAF member states.[2]

Some other notes on matters to treat delicately are:

Any decision on the end date/end state will be taken by the respective national and/or Alliance political committee. Under no circumstances should the mission end-date be a topic for speculation in public by any NATO/ISAF spokespeople.
The term "compensation" is inappropriate and should not be used because it brings with it legal implications that do not apply.
Any talk of stationing or deploying Russian military assets in Afghanistan is out of the question and has never been the subject of any considerations.
Only if pressed: ISAF forces are frequently fired at from inside Pakistan, very close to the border. In some cases defensive fire is required, against specific threats. Wherever possible, such fire is pre-coordinated with the Pakistani military.

https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Wikileaks_cracks_NATO%27s_Master_Narrative_for_Afghanistan

Regarding the long-term economic interests from the US regarding who rules over Afghanistan, it is interesting out of all the many countries "Russia" is out of the question but not monarchies who torture or finance these Wahabbi cults.

[JonLP24]

12. This article makes some better sense, especially to me

I'm still learning as I go but the thing I keep learning the truth is more in the middle of how each of the opposing sides of the armed conflict chooses to present it as.

Ukraine right-wing politics: is the genie out of the bottle?

Tumultuous changes to the Ukrainian executive, legislative and legal branches of power over the past months have until recently deflected the public’s attention from another important change in the political system of Ukraine. At the last local elections, Oleh Tyahnybok’s nationalist party Svoboda [freedom, ed] received around 5% support from the Ukrainian population, which means that this political force, which has yet to be studied in detail, increased its representation in the regional and local parliaments of Western and Central Ukraine. It also has more and more chances of forming its own party in the next Verkhovna Rada (the Ukrainian Parliament). This would change the structure and the nature of both political competition and public discourse in Ukraine. The ideological spectrum of the party landscape at national level may soon lose its current two-pronged division.

The range of parties until now

Since the collapse of the USSR, the majority of political parties and groups represented at different times in the Verkhovna Rada could to a greater or lesser extent be classified as belonging to one of two camps in the Ukrainian political landscape. One the one hand, there is the camp of pro-Western and pro-European national democrats. From time to time their electoral associations featured individual politicians with a nationalist past (for example Andriy Shkil, Andriy Parubiy and Levko Luk’yanenko), but on the whole the camp preserved its general liberal direction. On the other hand, there is a more or less pro-Russian, latently eurosceptic, often anti-American and partly anti-liberal group of parties, which in the 1990s was dominated by the Communist Party, and is now dominated by the Party of Regions.

Unlike Western politics, civilizational and geostrategic orientations played a more important role than economic and socio-political agendas for both Ukrainian camps. This led to coalitions that were unusual from a Western point of view, e.g. the alliance between the Party of Regions, run by financial magnates (“oligarchs”), and the Communist Party of Ukraine, or the social-democratic Batkivshchyna (Fatherland) party of Yulia Tymoshenko joining the economically liberal European People’s Party (with observer status).

Over the last 20 years, it is true, some Ukrainian parties could not be clearly classified as belonging to either of these two blocs. But these were mainly groups which had programmes synthesising the ideas of the two camps and which strove to position themselves as a balancing force, in one way or another. In the party spectrum these parties (for example the Socialist Party of Ukraine, the Litvin Bloc, “Trudovaya Ukraina” etc.) tried to occupy a hybrid niche, whose ideological uncertainty and changing membership led to it sometimes being called “the swamp”. The moderate success and vague programmes of these “centrist” parties, and also the high fluctuation of parties within this ideological section, meant that the two main political camps have dominated election campaigns and media debates throughout the last two decades.

“Svoboda”, the “white-blue” and the “orange”

The entry of Svoboda into the Ukrainian political establishment wrought changes in both the existing ideological rivalry of the parties and future constellations of political forces and possibilities for coalition in parliament. Firstly, it seems obvious that Svoboda could only be a coalition partner for the “Orange” parties, not for the Party of Regions. Svoboda and the Party of Regions are, to be sure, somewhat alike in their tendency towards authoritarianism (Svoboda is in favour of a purely presidential regime) and anti-Western ideas (neither party is very interested in post-war European values). Furthermore, there are rumours that Tyahnybok’s association – evidently for reasons of political strategy – secretly received support from the Party of Regions, perhaps including financial infusions. Nevertheless, an official alliance between Yanukovych’s party, which values good relations with Putin’s United Russia, and Svoboda does not seem possible because of the latter’s harsh anti-Russian position.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/andreas-umland/ukraine-right-wing-politics-is-genie-out-of-bottle

Economically liberally is an interesting term but correct regarding the words other definition but the Republican party are economic liberals. Too much capitalism inevitable leads to wealth concentration if not corruption or fascism. Certainly too much "Communism" leads to other or used by dictators (I'm not sure WTF the economy is of North Korea but noble intentions don't exist). I highly recommend
John Keynes & Democratic Socialism though.