Italy: Olive groves under threat | Focus on Europe

[DeSwiss]

- One of the main drawbacks of globalization is things that should stay where they belong, don't.

[Surya Gayatri]

1. Thanks for posting. I love olive oil and this distresses

me greatly. How soon until this deadly disease reaches Spain, Greece and other olive producing regions?

Look for the price of olive oil to take off.

[Pooka Fey]

2. K&R

[Enthusiast]

3. OMG! This is horrible!

[DFW]

4. This is catastrophic

If it spreads, I'm sunk.

We get our olive oil from a small farm in Spain, and get a 5 liter container every few months. If this spreads throughout Europe, a whole culture will be wiped out.

[nuxvomica]

5. This is very sad

I love olives and olive oil and the fine wood from these trees. It is no mystery that the olive branch is a symbol for peace: cultivation requires great care, enormous patience and hard work, but the reward sustains and enriches life.

[DeSwiss]

16. Now there's a scary thought.

- I hadn't considered the possible symbolic meaning of the branches of peace withering from the inside-out, until there are no more.

Not a good sign......

[cynzke]

6. This Could Spring Up Anywhere.

[DeSwiss]

12. Everything is probablility.

- You increase the probabilities of exposure to everything you come in contact with via globalization.

[turbinetree]

7. This

is a cause of the wreaking of the environment caused by pollution.
For example the pine beetle infestation in the U.S west is decimating the trees because of the importation of this non-native species, but the beetle along with weather and the destruction of million of acres of trees caused by the beetle we now have---fires, erosion, loss of plant life, animals- the cycle just repeats itself and we as a species have brought this upon ourselves----we really are stupid

[DeSwiss]

15. ''...we really are stupid.''

- This.

It's as though the novel 1984 was a manual for governments, and the movie Idiocracy was a depiction of the future for the rest of the planet......

[turbinetree]

19. I throughly agree

and also like Clock Work Orange (bad was good and good was bad)

[Botany]

8. add this to chestnut blight, dutch elm disease, and sudden oak death sydrome

Invasive plants and microbes from different areas of the globe
are real problems. Hopefully they can develope an olive tree
that is disease resitance to the bacteria.

[madamvlb]

9. Scary.

I have lost so many trees in my yard to disease in the past 3 years....

[DeSwiss]

14. I've lost 4 Red Maples in the past 15 years myself. n/t

[NV Whino]

10. We may have to do what the wine industry did

When the great phylloxera epidemic hit France around Thomas Jefferson's time, we "repatriated" American root stock, which originally came from France.

The olive trees we have today are Spanish, planted by the padres, and the newer imported Italian varietals. We may have to supply root stock back to the Italians.

[DeSwiss]

13. Maybe Paul Stamets has a fungus for this beetle?

- A Cordyceps fungus strain may be a possible answer but we know so little right now.

The olive farmers should send Paul Stamets an email.....

[NV Whino]

17. There's an idea.

[ffr]

11. A readily known drawback to mono farming.

When you provide nature with one crop for as far as the eye can see, the sickness from one place can travel until the food source is consumed. Nature does not populate the surface of the earth with mono anything in its natural form. It takes humans to replace natural ecosystems with unnatural mono systems.





Which is why chickens, pigs, cows and other livestock need antibiotics when they're packed into unnatural living conditions and why our industrial scale mono crops are genetically modified to be Round-Up Ready and able to withstand high doses of insecticides.

The solution is simple. But it is less efficient and more expensive, which is why we get industrial scale unnatural mono farming. Something to think about when you make your food purchase choices. Which one do you support with your dollars?

[Botany]

18. Mono farming doesn't have anything to do with this disease

The microbe is a bacteria that somehow got moved from Costa Rica to
Italy and it is highly doubtful this came from "mono farming."

[ffr]

20. That's a strawman.

What makes you think I said that the disease had anything to do with mono farming? I didn't say that, you said that. I didn't dispute that it was brought in from Costa Rica, so why bring that up?

What I said, however, fits exactly into the problem of mono-farming, in that once the disease takes hold of an unnaturally presented mono farming species, in this case olive trees, it can consume every last one of them because of their mono agricultural presentation to the disease. That is the case. The disease was presented with olive trees for as far as the eye could see AND it consumed each of them.

Until about four decades ago, crop yields in agricultural systems depended on internal resources, recycling of organic matter, built-in biological control mechanisms and rainfall patterns. Agricultural yields were modest, but stable. Production was safeguarded by growing more than one crop or variety in space and time in a field as insurance against pest outbreaks or severe weather. Inputs of nitrogen were gained by rotating major field crops with legumes. In turn rotations suppressed insects, weeds and diseases by effectively breaking the life cycles of these pests. A typical corn belt farmer grew corn rotated with several crops including soybeans, and small grain production was intrinsic to maintain livestock. Most of the labor was done by the family with occasional hired help and no specialized equipment or services were purchased from off-farm sources. In these type of farming systems the link between agriculture and ecology was quite strong and signs of environmental degradation were seldom evident.

[Botany]

21. "What makes you think I said that the disease had anything to do with mono farming?"

Because this thread was about a bacterial disease that is hitting olive orchards
around Naples, Italy and you posted about mono farming w/pictures of wheat and
celery fields (??).

Your post shows you know little about agriculture because although rotational farming
is good thing and it is even done right now on large scale farms it has nothing to do
w/olive trees because many of those trees have been growing for over 100 years.
Corn, beans, and grain crops can be grown on a rotational basis but trees not so much.
BTW olive and cork tree growers have been planting legumes around their trees for
many many generations. Also many olive growers are now and have been "green" for a number
of years and their orchards are vital to the protection of the native flora and funa.

And furthermore "the ideal little family farm" doesn't always give protection against plant diseases
and or damaging insects.

[ffr]

22. Yet another straw man argument and now includes a personal attack.

My rebuttal was to your rebuttal of my original post:

Mono farming doesn't have anything to do with this disease

The microbe is a bacteria that somehow got moved from Costa Rica to
Italy and it is highly doubtful this came from "mono farming." -Botany

If I disagree with your rebuttal that's no reason to attack me personally ("Your post shows you know little about agriculture)." I've been very clear on what my proposition is and how my rebuttals address exactly what I said originally and what I'm saying to your rebuttal. You seem to like to set me up to say things I've not said or present angles to the original post that I never said or disputed. That's classic staw man fallacy and you're guilty of that now, twice.

It is true though, that I know little about agriculture, but then I never claimed I did. I kind of set you up on that last one too, because I've come to learn that people who've been caught in fallacies often become defensive. And when they know they're guilty or don't have any other means to defend their argument, they usually lash out with personal attacks, saying something like "oh yeah, well, you're stupid or you're ugly. Sophomoric. I kind of figured you'd attack me or what I had to say about rotational farming as your way of finding fault, even though my original and rebuttal propositions could stand on their own merits.

You didn't disappoint either. You made it so easy for me. That whole last paragraph, was written by Miguel A. Altieri, Division of Insect Biology, University of California, Berkeley, here. It's backed up by 15 references and 17 end notes, all supporting the research presented. If you have a problem with what Mr. Altieri wrote, you can take it up with him.

My original proposition stands: 'When you provide nature with one crop for as far as the eye can see, the sickness from one place can travel until the food source is consumed.'

[Botany]

23. So in a thread about bacterial blight of olive orchards in Italy you have posted:

A picture of a palm oil plantation someplace in the tropics or subtropics,
a wheat field in the US or Canada, and what looks to be a California celery
farm, and something about rotational farming non of which is applicable
to the problem being discussed here which is a bacterial disease of olive
trees in Italy.

Many many olive orchards and cork farms are good examples of biodiversity
and sustainability ..... the problem here is a non native organism that was
somehow introduced into the area and its resulting problems.

This problem is much more like what happened with American Chestnut Blight
and Dutch Elm disease.

BTW I have helped with and been around some rotational farms for years and
right now one focus of my business is increase the areas that are bug and native
pollinator friendly.

[ffr]

24. That's all great work you are doing

But what don't you understand?

Botany - So in a thread about bacterial blight of olive orchards in Italy you have posted:
A picture of a palm oil plantation someplace in the tropics or subtropics,
a wheat field in the US or Canada, and what looks to be a California celery
farm, and something about rotational farming non of which is applicable
to the problem being discussed here which is a bacterial disease of olive
trees in Italy. (Are not olive orchards, as you say, grown in the same place for 100 years, mono-farming/mono agriculture? And are not the pictures of mono-farming palm oil plantations and mono farming wheat fields and mono-farming lettuce patches being sprayed, examples of mono-farming???). Did I not repeat mono-farming and provide enough examples of mono-farming and the dangers that mono-farming presents in direct relationship to the mono-farming olive orchard to make that abundantly clear? Really?

Many many olive orchards and cork farms are good examples of biodiversity
and sustainability ..... the problem here is a non native organism that was
somehow introduced into the area and its resulting problems. (The problem here is the non-native organism! Thank you for finally realizing my proposition, although I still don't think you're fully grasping that you just repeated my point, in that:

A readily known drawback to mono farming.

When you provide nature with one crop for as far as the eye can see, the sickness from one place can travel until the food source is consumed.

See how the non-native organism when introduced to a mono-farm can have disastrous consequences? Please. Please. Please. Certainly, you must recognize this, right?

This problem is much more like what happened with American Chestnut Blight
and Dutch Elm disease. (Is this the rebuttal to my explaining the dangers of mono-agriculture?) No explanation is necessary if you're providing more examples of dangers of mono agriculture.

BTW I have helped with and been around some rotational farms for years and
right now one focus of my business is increase the areas that are bug and native
pollinator friendly. (That's noble work. Thank you).

Please. I think this has gone far enough. You've drained my last ounce of compassion for explaining what I've already explained to the point that I am nauseous. If you still do not understand, whatever your reasoning, I beg of you to just leave it at that. If you insist on posting a rebuttal, that's fine. I will just ignore it.

[Botany]

25. Good God in Butter

American Chestnut Blight which wiped out the American Chestnut had nothing to
do with mono agriculture as a matter of fact it hit chestnut trees that were part
of bio diverse NATURALLY OCCURRING ECOSYSTEMS.

[mahina]

30. Yes.

+1

[CrispyQ]

26. Many years ago I read a sci fi story, by David Brin, perhaps?

Anyway, humanity looked on in horror as all the trees in the world started to die.

And I know it was David Brin who wrote a story about hurricanes that twirled around the Pacific, coming to land on occasion, but then going back out to sea, with month long lifespans. Sounds crazy, but so did some of the other stuff.

[DeSwiss]

27. I haven't read Mr. Brin but he seems interesting. I'll have to give him a perusal.

The bacterium which does the damage to trees requires a vector to transmit it since it cannot travel from tree to tree on its own. In the case of the Italian olive trees it is the Meadow Spittlebug:
[font color=white]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>[/font]

Controlling these then, seems to be the answer......

Your Pacific Ocean tornadoes novel reference reminded me of this:

[CrispyQ]

29. I've never heard of that movie. LOL - a storm chaser's dream! -nt

[djean111]

28. Don't worry, some Big Agricultural/Chemical Corporation is working on

Last edited Sat Apr 18, 2015, 06:46 PM - Edit history (1)

"I Can't Believe It's Not Olive Oil!" right now. Just do not read the label! The ingredients are none of your damned business.

[DeSwiss]

31. !

[KoKo]

32. Monsanto Rescues Beleagured Olive Farmer....!

Sorry...for the snark....but, this is a very sad thing.

Globilization through increased contact/travel/trade also transmits organisms, pests and other challenges we here in USA and othe Countries have had to deal with and will continue to deal with. More world/global/trade means with the constant and growing import/export of goods means more ability for everything to morph with the introduction invasive plants, bacteria, viruses,imported animals, fish, etc. to change our global Ecosphere in ways we don't yet have resources to mange. Plus, Global Climate Change will cause migrations that we won't even know the effects of until decades from now. Gulf Stream Current is already changing directions in small ways which may have more immediate changes...but Gulf Stream is only the result of other changes, subtle, but in the works, going forward with our other ocean currents as the glaciers melt.

It will be a massage Reoganization...but, we won't see it all at once. Just gradual...in bits and pieces over the next decades.

[DeSwiss]

33. You've hit upon the main point.

Prior to our understanding of the interconnectedness of all of us to everything on this planet, we had an excuse for a continuation of the wasteful and even deleterious impacts we were having upon it because they were relatively minor and inconsequential. Not anymore.

Now we know we are all on the same ball together floating through space and if we don't stop the way we're running things, we're going to kill ourselves. The planet will go on. And so will we, but only in the dust of history. Which is as it should be for such a insignificant and rather stupid species as ours is turning out to be.

It is for these reasons that we must finally get it through our heads that political systems are about the most stupid way to run a society. Now considering our past, mind you, it's understandable that we came this way. But we've not learned a goddamned thing from it. And so we go on repeating the same mistakes only they get worse because we just become more and more lethal to each other as we move forward.

- The leaders won't stop it. We have to stop it ourselves. We need to stop worrying about ''fixing'' everything just right. We just need to follow Nature's blueprints......

[KoKo]

34. Thanks....Fascinating Video...great watch...

Many of us have been trying to live without the "excess" and finding ways to get around giant agri-business by supporting the "Buy Local & Grow Local" movements that have sprung up and supporting the growing interest in finding alternate natural medicines for some of our more simpler ailments to balance Big Pharma's greed. We have to keep trying to expand that movement as much as we can.

The sad thing is that we are so far along in Climate Change that Buy Local/Grow Local isn't going to be the whole answer. We will have to find new ways of "Exchange Agriculture" as more places become desert and others are flooded by continuous rain and unpredictable cold takes over formerly temperate climates and former temperate becomes hotter. Hopefully the "seed banks" will be able to supply us with ancient varieties that can be used to diversify crops and forms of Permanent Greenhouses and Aquaponics help fill in the gaps.

That's going to take a lot of world cooperation and it would be great if a "True United Nations" for the "World's People's Survival" could spring out of that organization which now seems to focus on conflict, politics and aid in wars that it should have been stopped in the first place.

So much work to be done... if the worlds people (particularly the young) can rise to the challenge. That's my hope.

[DeSwiss]

35. Feeding and taking care of ourselves is easy.

- We learned how to all that stuff thousands and thousands of years ago. It's imprinted in our genes. We've just forgotten how to turn it back on......