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Sen. Sanders on Rachel Maddow (Original Post) cal04 Apr 2015 OP
Bernie says it is up to the people to decide upaloopa Apr 2015 #1
I for one donnasgirl Apr 2015 #3
So sad that the SamKnause Apr 2015 #2
Sanders shames HRC semanticwikiian Apr 2015 #4
Pillars? Exaggerate much? upaloopa Apr 2015 #5
YET donnasgirl Apr 2015 #8
Have you paid your $45 contribution? upaloopa Apr 2015 #9
Trust me donnasgirl Apr 2015 #12
I think he said he needs to see the money first. upaloopa Apr 2015 #14
I truly do not care if you trust me or not donnasgirl Apr 2015 #15
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2015 #20
I look at this (puny) list and see specific things that can actually be accomplished...now. If she libdem4life Apr 2015 #10
Definitely a families first platform. Pretty basic stuff, not even a week out, but she's listening. freshwest Apr 2015 #22
K & R !!! WillyT Apr 2015 #6
He used the "O" word ... Oligarchy. We're very close. Both parties had best take the libdem4life Apr 2015 #7
The Princeton study said it is jakeXT Apr 2015 #11
Very Sad. n/t libdem4life Apr 2015 #13
"unexpectedly progressive..." chapdrum Apr 2015 #16
Bernie is hands down the most honest politician in my lifetime. AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #17
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2015 #21
I describe the effort we need to make to get Bernie or any other Progressive nominated and JDPriestly Apr 2015 #18
He's looking more energized than I've seen him for a long time. Go Bernie! n/t freshwest Apr 2015 #19

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
1. Bernie says it is up to the people to decide
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 01:08 PM
Apr 2015

if he runs. He asks are people willing to stand up to the billionaire class and can they raise millions of $45 contributions.
Seems it is up to Sanders supporters to put their money where their mouths are.

donnasgirl

(656 posts)
3. I for one
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 01:24 PM
Apr 2015

Will put my money where my mouth is, as a matter of fact I will miss a few meals just to prove my point.

SamKnause

(13,102 posts)
2. So sad that the
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 01:14 PM
Apr 2015

'Democratic' millionaires and billionaires aren't backing Bernie.

I would think there would be many in Hollywood that could bankroll Bernie.

I really do not understand the people in the U.S.

 

semanticwikiian

(69 posts)
4. Sanders shames HRC
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 01:29 PM
Apr 2015

by speaking about MASSIVELY IMPORTANT issues

Not these seven (puny) pillars of the HRC campaign:
(link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026516703)
Read these, and compare to Bernie's:

1/ family leave for new dads
2/ eliminating anonymous campaign donations
3/ restoring Head Start
4/ supporting Obama's free community college tuitions
5/ supporting (improving?) Obamacare
6/ supporting Obama's immigration policies
7/ supporting Obama's equal-pay policies

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
9. Have you paid your $45 contribution?
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 02:05 PM
Apr 2015

He said it will take millions of $45 contributions for him to run.

donnasgirl

(656 posts)
15. I truly do not care if you trust me or not
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 02:23 PM
Apr 2015

The only one's that need to trust me are Bernie, or Elizabeth who I know say's she is not interested but one can hope.

Response to upaloopa (Reply #9)

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
10. I look at this (puny) list and see specific things that can actually be accomplished...now. If she
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 02:11 PM
Apr 2015

doesn't appeal to the average lower-middle class, she's not a good Democrat or likely to win. To call this "Puny"? Supporting Dads, eliminating anonymous donations, Head Start, Free community College, Health care, Immigration, Equal pay...what was she supposed to say? These are traditional Democratic ideals...yes, there are more, but this was a good start. Families First.

The Massively Important referred to, I suspect, doesn't much matter with the above portion of the Base. She'll get there...like all seem to keep saying, it's a Long Time until the election.

I'm starting to like her a bit.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
22. Definitely a families first platform. Pretty basic stuff, not even a week out, but she's listening.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 09:47 PM
Apr 2015

The public servant's role is to do that, not to shove people into their way of thinking, that's the Democratic Party tradition.

The GOP runs by media, church and corporate induced fearmongering and hatred. Nothing like that will be forthcoming from our candidates. Most people don't want to attack their fellows of any economic or social group as the GOP does, although they do it with a lot of words, that's what they are doing.

The billionaire class is a good rallying tool and a defining way of passing or resisting legislation. And governing, up to a certain point. We can't allow ourselves to indulge in emotionally satisfying B&W thinking patterns. Our voting pool does not go for it. Too many have connections to well-off concerns some may deny, but do. It comes out in their votes.

OTOH, emotionally satisfying memes are common with Tea Partiers. Too bad they are all so negative and also anti-American. I see Bernie as very important and want him to run as a Democrat. He has said he will not play the role of spoiler as Nader, and help conservatives gain the White House. And I'm sure Democrats will accommodate him in the primaries, and beyond, if they want him.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
7. He used the "O" word ... Oligarchy. We're very close. Both parties had best take the
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 02:00 PM
Apr 2015

money, because if one doesn't, the other will get it and make like a steamroller and another Newt II Congress. I don't like it either, but am open to Real Workable Suggestions. Bernie as much as said he didn't know how he would get the money to run.

Raise the Minimum Wage...Congress has to pass that
Raise the SS level on contributions... See above
Change the Tax Code (for many reasons)... See above
Tax Offshoring ... See above
Change Corporations from People back to Entities...don't remember, maybe SCOTUS?

The people can only speak through their representatives, all of whom need massive funds to continue...or anyone that replaces them. That, I believe, is why Democrat Leadership doesn't see this "no corporation" position as viable.









jakeXT

(10,575 posts)
11. The Princeton study said it is
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 02:12 PM
Apr 2015

Princeton Study: U.S. No Longer An Actual Democracy



A new study from Princeton spells bad news for American democracy—namely, that it no longer exists.

Asking &quot w)ho really rules?" researchers Martin Gilens and Benjamin I. Page argue that over the past few decades America's political system has slowly transformed from a democracy into an oligarchy, where wealthy elites wield most power.

Using data drawn from over 1,800 different policy initiatives from 1981 to 2002, the two conclude that rich, well-connected individuals on the political scene now steer the direction of the country, regardless of or even against the will of the majority of voters.

"The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy," they write, "while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-longer-democracy

 

chapdrum

(930 posts)
16. "unexpectedly progressive..."
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 03:20 PM
Apr 2015

Where've we seen and heard that before?
Oh yes, Mr. Obama, who came off like a savior next to his seditious predecessor, and then turned himself right around...
No thanks Hil (of beans).

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
17. Bernie is hands down the most honest politician in my lifetime.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 05:24 PM
Apr 2015

He (or Elizabeth Warren) will be the champion of the middle class, not the poseur mouthing the words of populist rhetoric with a nudge nudge wink wink to banks.

Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #17)

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
18. I describe the effort we need to make to get Bernie or any other Progressive nominated and
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 05:29 PM
Apr 2015

elected.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6519042

Sorry this is really long because the work it takes to get a candidate elected takes a lot of time, and if you are not willing to work yourself to exhaustion, forget it.


The Primary period is the time to [View all]

think about and hear new leaders and new ideas and at the national level.

We need a discussion in our Democratic Party about how we respond to the Republican greed and angry, selfish nonsense especially to the absurd libertarian challenges to American values.

But we will not have that if our primary is merely a coronation and not an opportunity to hear a number of voices.

The problem is, as Bernie Sanders and others have pointed out: it takes so much money to get TV access, to buy ads, to get media attention, to organize, to rent a headquarters, etc. and run a campaign.

That is the problem for candidates with new and progressive views that should get attention from voters. Same for candidates who might be better alternatives to the appointed and anointed. (Not just talking about Hillary here. Progressives need to organize at the state and local levels first where are many similar candidates who are viewed as inevitable and aren't necessarily the strongest candidates. It isn't their fault that they rise to the top. Sometimes no one else steps up who can do the work required to get elected. I explain this below.)

Working in the Democratic Party at the local level (with always, always wonderful people, I must add), I have observed that, usually, appointing and anointing candidates is a process carried out by party activists who have a lot of other things on their minds. Some are thinking about their own chances at re-election, their jobs or some specific community project or problem or maybe not offending someone in their social group or the Party. Some are just social butterflies who love to be in on the action.

Many, many of the party activists are worried about how the Party is going to pay for the campaign. All of them are dedicated to getting Democrats into office. That is the priority, and while the specific ideas of the candidate are important when there is a choice, that is not always the first concern of those who decide which potential candidate the Party will back. Money and the ability to get it may top ideology and for good reason.

People at the local level have to get along so there is always some concern about personality clashes. Who is a team player? Who is reliable? Who will work well with others? Who has that smile on his/her face? Who is good with numbers? Who can type? Who has the ability to connect on the phone? These are just some of the important questions that must be dealt with when organizing a campaign.

You cannot have a successful campaign if the volunteers are all a bunch of egotistical individualists who can't work with others. A brilliant person with great ideas who can't get along with others is pretty useless in a campaign. Sorry, but that is just the fact.

Then a big question is which candidate will draw the most financial support? There is no campaign unless you have that wonderful and self-sacrificing accountant somewhere at the level of your county party or campaign who crunches the numbers and stretches the resources so that Democrats can afford some sort of candidate, some sort of campaign. And remember, there is not much pay for doing that thankless job for progressive candidates.

The legal compliance reporting can also be a time-consuming and thankless job. But it too has to be done. So the people who volunteer to do those jobs or who are paid very little to do them deserve to be rewarded with as much love as everyone can give them.

Think of the costs. You have to rent a headquarters. The phone bill will be huge. You need banks of phones. You have to pay for the hand-outs. You have to sell tee-shirts and buttons, etc. Who can be trusted to handle the small change? A question that has to be asked.

Somebody has to run a voter registration drive which means traveling around with a table and reaching out to voters. Takes a patient personality, people who don't get riled by smart alecs who disagree with them. People who can be very kind to the confused and ignorant. People who are gentle and persuasive but down-to-earth and capable of getting the job done. Direct voter contact takes more than just conviction and dedication to a political platform.

Someone else has to do the secretarial work, generate computer lists, coordinate with the local voter registrar to get lists that identify specifically voters you want to target -- let's say voters who are registered as Democrats and vote regularly.

Then there is organizing and feeding volunteers. Getting folks to walk precincts especially in the get-out-the-vote days right before the election.

The workload is huge. And the rewards are not glorious. In 2008, when Obama was elected, I had been up since 4:30 a.m., didn’t get back from the polls until late in the evening, and then I just fell into bed. One of my daughters called and woke me and said Obama had won. I never expected a result that soon. You work on a campaign (and I was just a volunteer) and you work to exhaustion.

So the party leadership naturally wants a candidate who brings understanding of and facility in dealing with the organization and funding of a campaign. The candidate also has to charm volunteers. Patience can be more important to those who work with a candidate at nitty-gritty time than ideological purity.

We Progressives often eliminate ourselves from the selection and campaign process because we can't be bothered to volunteer at the campaign level during and before campaigns and do the work that is required to run a campaign. Lots of us do volunteer, but too many of us are just talking and maybe marching. Not very meaningful when it comes time to vote.

If we Progressives want attention and respect for our ideas, we have to get organized.

While marching and carrying signs are manifestations and the results of a certain kind of organization, they will not get our candidates nominated or elected. They will not get our ideas adopted. They may draw attention and attract people who are unhappy with the status quo, people like us, but they will not change much if they are not backed up with the kind of work I am describing here.

We have to do the tedious and less exciting job of getting our candidates nominated and elected. And if we don't want corporate money to dominate our elections, then we have to put our money and most of all our time, effort and focus on winning elections.

It's time for Progressives to work and not just kind of gather and march and feel good together. Our planet needs us. Our children need us. Our country needs us.

So pick your candidate and your agenda and volunteer. It's the only way we can change anything. And remember, the first person you need to change is yourself.

So far, I have volunteered to help Bernie Sanders. As everyone knows, I like both Bernie and Elizabeth Warren. But Bernie seems more likely to run than Warren. We shall see whether we Progressives can grow up enough to get a candidate who speaks for us.

Cross-posted from the forum on economics and progressive politics and GD.

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