Who Will Win The True Progressive Vote: Bernie or Hillary?

[GoLeft TV]

As we continue on towards 2016, one thing is becoming clear: A fight will occur for the Democratic nomination. The fight won’t be dirty or cheap, but it will be hard fought. And it will absolutely come down to Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders.

Mike Papantonio discusses this on The Ed Schultz Podcast.

[peacebird]

1. True progressive is Bernie. Faux populist "New Democrat" right of center, that would be Hillary

[still_one]

27. Keep alienating your Democratic opponents by calling them republicans. Do you think if Bernie wins the

nomination, he will win the general election without those who supported Hillary?

It works in reverse to, if Hillary wins the nomination, she would need the support of the other Democratic candidate's supporters to win the general election, except the difference here at DU, I don't see the same venom expressed by Hillary supporters toward the other Democratic candidates, as I do from some of the Bernie supporters toward Hillary.

Bernie himself doesn't resort to that kind of "name calling" garbage

[peacebird]

33. There's plenty of sneering and derision against Bernie by the Hill supporters.

Oh, and nothing I wrote is inaccurate. Sorry if you find the truth offensive

[still_one]

35. You didn't even respond to my question. Do you think if Bernie wins the nomination he could win the

general election without Hillary supporters?

Answer that one, and then start calling Hillary supporters republicans in sheep's clothing

Ya think Bernie would be proud of you calling Hillary supporters republicans?

[peacebird]

37. You have a nice day

[still_one]

58. LOL, good response. you too

[L0oniX]

2. Hillary has no chance in hell of getting a majority progressive vote. I'll bet on it.

If ya didn't see the warning in 2014 you never will ...until it smacks ya up side the head in 2016.

[lewebley3]

3. I am progressive, Hillary will and is getting the most progessives votes!

Sanders people are getting to full themselves! Hillary
is the true progressive, she was worked for Dem party

Sanders is just a talker!

[L0oniX]

4. Maybe I should take some LSD so I can fit in better with the crowd.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

9. It would help to read that.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

15. I did LSD in my teens and twenties.

If I did that today, no doubt I would not survive.

[turbinetree]

8. Really......................................

I guess our ETHOS for Sanders and the 100,000 who were at town hall meetings (3,500) to get this "Democratic -Socialist" progressive into the White House was just a bunch of talk.

And what he and others were doing in 1964-----2015, compared to what some others were doing in 1964---2015

Honk ------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

[lewebley3]

38. Town meetings are not votes! Hillary in the polls has the progressive vote now!

[turbinetree]

45. I don't think so....................................

try again-------------respectfully.

Polls are set up as a means to justify a idea, from a question and statistical formula -------------they are useless on there presentation unless when a hard fact is used in that formula to eliminate the outlier from one candidate to a hypothetical candidate.

Let me give you an example and tell me who said this in 2012 speech in Australia on the TPP and what they thought of the TPP accord it is ----------- "the gold standard in trade agreements."

Now let's use this has a question in a town hall meeting with voters in attendance or in a debate format--------
Do you think the TPP is the gold standard in trade agreements" and would this be used in your vote for the candidate? ( Yes/No/ Uncommitted with candidates name)
Or, we can ask---------- is the TPP a gold standard in trade agreements or not, and who do you trust on the TPP accord." (Give the names of the candidates)

Again, what was your candidate doing in 1964-2015?
I know exactly what my candidate was doing in 1964-2105?

And, I think that with over 100,000 in attendance at these town hall meetings, it is over 100,000 voters that can have a candidate lose primaries if they do not have your support------------that being said, this is not being factored into the polls.

They are using a question in a hypothetical to justify the candidates existence in a race/money------they do not present what that person said in------------ let's say TPP, to what another candidate said about TPP.

These three letters (TPP) in my opinion drive the ideology of what that candidate stands for on every issue------------- income, equality, health care, immigration, workers rights, national security, climate, social security, civil rights, ect.................and I am basing my vote on those three letters TPP----------because they affect all of the above with the track record of what was said and what they have not said

Have a good day

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

11. OK, I may be an ass, but I'm not shy.

"Sanders people are getting to full themselves! Hillary
is the true progressive, she was worked for Dem party"

Where I come from, even third graders can formulate better sentences, and have better spelling.

[navarth]

12. if one feeds a troll

the troll will likely come back to be fed again.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

13. When one has had 4 martinis, one sometimes can't control oneself.

[navarth]

14. Point taken!

I stand, er, sit corrected.

Carry on then, good sir.

[L0oniX]

21. Dos XX my friend

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

17. Almost forgot. Looking forward to P-v-L and L-v-P this season!

Go Pack!

[navarth]

20. Indeed.....

Time is long....and the tables eventually turn......

I hope I will live up to my standards and be gracious in our inevitable victory, as Packers fans have always been with me. We will be generous when we have scratched that particular itch; you see, Lions fans are, after all, the classiest fans in the NFL.

You guys certainly do have the very best QB in football. Aaron is a marvel. Suh was a dick for crunching his legs. Hey Suh: don't do shit that makes us deserve to lose, fool.

Watch out for Minnesota this year too....here's hoping for a thrilling season. Cheers. G O L I O N S

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

47. May the best teams win!

[lewebley3]

39. You understood what I said! you are losing your argument when you attack the messenger

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

48. I'm not arguing, just amusing myself.

[lewebley3]

49. No:you have run out of ideas: Sanders is just a nice man

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

57. He is a very nice man, that I agree.

[tularetom]

51. Sanders is true progressive!

Polls not lie! Hillary not gained trust of majority!

[lewebley3]

53. Hillary: is 20 points or more a head in most polls and she does have their Trust!

[MrMickeysMom]

46. Sanders walks the walk as he talks...

to

too

two

------------------------ choose the best substitute to formulate your missive, please.

has worked

was working

was worked over

[lewebley3]

50. No, has not: he chose his 73 year to speak up: others have been doing the work

[MrMickeysMom]

56. Your post is anything but accurate...

I'd go further, but I'm not even sure that I'm not talking to someone who's language is the same as mine.

"he chose his 73 year to speak up"? Are you fucking kidding me?

Is this supposed to be a declarative statement?

Go to school and learn to read so that you might check the validity of what you tried to state.

[c588415]

18. It's time;it's Hillary time!

Only a centrist can win the white house in 2016. Hillary is left of center; whereas, Sanders is left of left.I believe he would be a great president. Nevertheless, it's time;it's Hillary time !

[panfluteman]

23. The True Populist and Centrist is Bernie Sanders!

In poll after poll, Bernie is exactly where the vast majority of the American people are on issue after issue. That's a TRUE centrist - right in the center of the American people. The idea of him being a fringe leftie is just something concocted by the mainstream media, who defines "centrist" as being in the center of what the 1% at the top want - they have totally marginalized everyone else. If the American voting populace just votes for the guy who is most in line with where they stand on the issues, and does not let themselves get sidetracked or derailed by MSM BS propaganda, they will vote for Bernie!

[RufusTFirefly]

5. The sheer thought that "Hillary" and "progressive" are used together appalls me

I feel as though I've gone to sleep and awoken in some bizarre alternate universe.

As characters in the Flintstones would often say, "I gotta stop eating at these cheap restaurants!"

[daybranch]

10. You nailed it!

Actually I think Hillary is regressive. She was right of Obama in 2008 and he is a centrist, would she not then be a regressive? We are of the needy class and must outvote the ignorants manipulated by the greedy class. Go Bernie. Canvasses are going on now for Bernie. They are working fantastic. Join us!

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

19. +9999999999999999

[Alfalfa]

30. She's the corporate candidate with no genuine conviction or commitment to anything

She just goes in whichever direction she thinks the wind is blowing.

[Alfalfa]

31. +1

[lewebley3]

40. Well it is true: Hillary is the original progressive: and is still a loyal Dem

[RufusTFirefly]

42. The original progressive??

And let me guess: you are the world's greatest hyperbolist.

[lewebley3]

43. No, just know Hillary history: and she descends from FDR Dem's

There are none this cycle running for office right now!!

[RufusTFirefly]

44. OK... So, does "Hillary history" have any connection with actual history?

It doesn't appear to.

First of all, the original progressives came decades before FDR. They date back to the beginning of the 20th century. Among other things, they helped to establish federal and state income taxes. But more importantly, they took aim at large interlocked corporations (known as trusts) who wielded too much power and sought to regulate and dismantle them.

In the present time, the organizations that most resemble the trusts are the "too big to fail" banks. Judging from the company she keeps and the contributions she receives, Hillary Clinton would appear to be a great friend of the banks. That doesn't strike me as progressive in the least. On the other hand, Bernie Sanders, echoing his progressive predecessors, has openly called for breaking up the banks.

As for FDR, he was no friend of the banks either. He championed Glass-Steagall, which (among other things) separated commercial banking from investment banking, thus preventing savings banks from gambling with the money of their depositors. These and other provisions incurred the wrath of the bankers to which FDR famously replied "I welcome their hatred."

Unfortunately, under Hillary Cllinton's husband's administration the section of Glass-Steagall that provided a key firewall between investment and commercial banking was effectively removed, with predictable and disastrous results. Even so, despite what appears to be a clear connection between bank deregulation and the depression of 2008, Clinton has rejected calls for the reinstatement of that key provision. On the other hand, Bernie Sanders supports reviving Glass-Steagall, in other words, returning to the regulation of FDR's era that prevented banks from gambling with "other people's money." Once again, Sanders, not Clinton, would appear to be following in the proud tradition of progressives and FDR.

So, with all due respect, I think you probably need to shift from "Hillary history" to actual American history before making such grand and (I'm being charitable here) misguided assertions.

[lewebley3]

52. Yes, Hillary actual history is with the Dem's: not Bernie: She has proved herself

Sanders has no political history outside of Vermont pop 620,000
95 white liberal.
He not history on the national political stage, he has no history in leadership,
or demonstrated political skills.
He just a nice man,

The History of the Clinton Administration is one of the most successful in history
for the American people. When they left office there was surplus, minority unemployment
was down to single digits. etc etc

Bush cut taxes on the rich(Clinton raise taxes on the rich) , he chose to go war for profit( Clinton's made a different
a different choice) , Bush policies crashed the economy, the same way did under Hoover.

This talk of Glass-Steagall is moot point in a 14 trillion dollar economy 8 years later: It
is a left wing nonsense talking point. It was started under Tom Hartman, it is not
the reason the Bushed crash the economy. When the GOP were under Bush they
didn't care what law there were: they stuff the Sec with crooked friends, and they
thought it was just fine. Bernie Madfoff is a great example of this!

[captainarizona]

6. who will win the total vote.

The minority vote is for mrs. clinton as is half the white democrat vote.

[Gregorian]

7. So now we have to redifine what progressive means?

It's obvious to most that progressive isn't TPP. Isn't an Iraq war vote. These are huge blemishes on not only our country, but the world.

[daybranch]

16. point well made!

Nuff said!

[SoapBox]

22. She's a Bankster...and anything but a true Progrressive.

I will never vote for her.

Period.

[Alfalfa]

32. Exactly

[panfluteman]

24. Go Bernie! But Nevertheless, I AM Worried About the Robin Hood Hats

that are popping up in increasing numbers at Bernie rallies. Although they are a powerful symbol that aptly describes Bernie Sanders' basic message, I worry that they might provoke a political backlash. Hillary, or some other GOP candidate, might even find a way to use the Robin Hood hats in a vicious attack ad. What do the rest of you think? I'd like some feedback on this one.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

25. Someone else.

[elleng]

26. O'Malley

[PATRICK]

28. I'm guessing

the divisive term "True Progressives" which once might have been better recognized as "True Democrats" means the division between incremental pragmatists based with two feet on electability, the status quo and the benefits of backing the frontrunner and reformists.

As for "visionary" it is just as pie in the sky to believe getting something means we get as much as what was "possible". This coming at a time when climate change alone necessitates the boldness to do a lot more than we think we can. When only the evil are that bold.

True progressives will do what they can and there are a lot more of us who don't. All progressives should support either candidate(or O'Malley or others!) but every buck does not stop in the Oval Office anymore. Movements, communication, local reforms and elections and platform demands and much more.

[Maedhros]

55. That's why I support Bernie.

He is leading a movement, and that movement is growing and gaining momentum.

[Alfalfa]

29. Bernie all the way

[jalan48]

34. Hillary-another in a long line of 1% progressives. They feel our pain.

[kjones]

36. "True" Progressive

Yeah, takes tunnel vision and ego to assume that
one (anything) is the only "true" (whatever). In this case,
it's obvious not everyone agrees with the rather
homogeneous "true" progressivism Bernie espouses.
He has good ideas, he has a lot of good (currently
impossible ideas). He's missing out with relatively
narrow economic based ideas though.
I like socialism...but socialists tend to annoy me.
It's one thing to confront economic issues, and another
to be consumed with them....turning everything into
part of an economic paradigm.
I question the effectiveness (in my life, and many others) of
such a focus. There are a lot of other problems in the world.

[Fearless]

41. Obviously Bernie.

[DinahMoeHum]

54. Bernie Sanders. No question.

However, if it turns out that Hillary wins the nomination, I will follow Bernie and support her bid for POTUS. Having a GOoPer in the WH is something I absolutely will not. fucking. swallow.