Stop Telling Us Hillary’s Acceptance of Corporate Money Is Okay. It Isn’t.

[GoLeft TV]

Aren’t you getting a little sick of hearing from these “progressive” pundits that Hillary Clinton’s acceptance of money from corporations is not a problem? Ring of Fire’s Farron Cousins discusses this.

[MsFlorida]

1. Like nascar drivers with their endorsements

She needs to be wearing hers as well

[Dragonfli]

2. Yep

[Plucketeer]

5. This attaire

should be law.

[Dragonfli]

10. It really should, I read a law to require just that was in the works somewhere (not nationally)

Unfortunately, I don't recall where or how well it is faring. It was a fairly recent introduction of law, so may well be still in the works.

Since it is a quite recent story, perhaps someone else here recalls the details and can post in this sub-thread about it.

[truebluegreen]

97. California--don't know current status. nt

[lewebley3]

8. No, Hillary wears mostly Red, white, and blue she is working for America

[Dragonfli]

11. South America or North America, it's hard to keep her regime changes and coups straight sometimes nt

[lewebley3]

13. Those are left wing tea bagger lies: Hillary has shown good judgement with both Americas

[Dragonfli]

22. You are such a funny and cute brockpuppet, you really are adorable and I want to adopt you.

[BeanMusical]

24. Will you hug him and pet him and squeeze him and name him George?

[Dragonfli]

30. Oh noes, I think I hugged him too hard..../nt

[BeanMusical]

40. Rofl!

[Plucketeer]

69. Hey!

Ya got one of those with a pants suit and faux blond hair?

[Dragonfli]

74. I am tempted, believe me, but I made that one to fit a very real truth

Brock can only directly coordinate with the Clinton campaign (illegal for anyone not named Clinton, but I digress) due to what they call "a loophole to allow them to subvert the law" as long as they only do so via the internet, so it is an important and specific warning I don't wish to dilute. I mean to use it this way:

[center]Rare sighting of a brockpuppet in the wild[/center]
[center][center]

Remember people, because Brock can legally coordinate directly with the Clinton campaign only as long as he just uses the internet to work her campaign, herds of these things have been released into the wild.

Please be cautious when encountering these creatures as they are known to maul Democracy and are very hazardous to the truth
This has been a public service announcement.

[bvar22]

117. I heard they carry diseases like Rabies that drives them crazy,

and makes them foam at the mouth.
[font size=3 color=Red]
****CAUTION*****
Do not approach or attempt to handle them. Call Animal Control Immediately!
*****************
[/font]


[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center] [center] [/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]


You will know then by their WORKS.

[Dragonfli]

118. LOL, I should include that bit in future "public service announcements"

[BeanMusical]

23. Then where's all the blood that she has on her hands coming from, R2?

[floriduck]

49. That's what the red represents in her wardrobe. nm

[BeanMusical]

51. +1

[shakedown1970]

54. You are high.

[BeanMusical]

60. ...

[daleanime]

57. Please........

I have a weak heart

[Dragonfli]

58. I'm glad we keep this one around, the comedy lightens our day and there is some debate

as to whether it is a poorly written AI or a performance artist, I am side AI, how about you?

[BeanMusical]

68. I'm glad we keep this one around too.

[A Simple Game]

91. I pick AI, they have to test that stuff somewhere, why not here. n/t

[Dragonfli]

94. After this test there will be many bugs to address in lewebley4.0 as shown by lewebley3.0

Beta tests can be a bitch for programmers when the program under performs in such an embarrassing way.

[A Simple Game]

100. I vote to start over, there is nothing salvageable in this version. n/t

[Dragonfli]

108. Sigh, I guess I have to admit that would be the most prudent course to take.

After all the workaround fixes to the core program, a fixed version would look like code spaghetti in the end, even if it did work somewhat better, there may also be a major flaw in the base code engine itself being overlooked and the spagettied version may end up achieving a fix of only a few cosmetic service flaws once put to a an open test again.

The thing is, the programmers have put a great deal of effort and time in both the software base code theory and subsequent completion coding and subroutines, not to mention a very public and arduous public Beta test.

Some of the egos may refuse to go back to a blank whiteboard and start over at a fundamental level, their egos may still cling to a flawed theory at that base level.

I think I know the problem, but I am not on the team and have never been consulted, but I think they are using a logic function model of linear programming trying to inject a very thin veneer of artificial personality that relies too heavily on some randomization of pre-formatted answers in the form of a talking point file of very limited scope.

They should not have relied so heavily on a linear model, and static, if randomized set of canned replies, but should have done the more challenging, but ultimately more likely successful approach, of a neural network style self learning model at it's core. After all, that is how actual biological brains work.

Perhaps they are just not up to it.

Perhaps they are and will try a neural network approach that even if it would certainly fail a Turing test would at least appear as if it were an actual intelligence capable of learning and possessing a more convincing personality module. If so I expect a learnbley1 version ready for Beta testing in four years if they work hard.

[revbones]

66. Nice use of facts to back up your statements. Oh wait... nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

28. She's working for Corporate America, but you knew that already.

[rtracey]

43. so am i

Sorry but so am I, so is anyone who has a job with a big "corporation"....

[RoccoR5955]

56. I haven't worked for a corporation for 30 years

I have worked for a cooperative and am currently a civil servant.

[sus453]

65. However, there's a big difference between

work for a corporation and work for a corporation or for "corporate America".

[BeanMusical]

70. Yes, apples and orangutans.

[rtracey]

115. hmmmm

is is

[beltanefauve]

34. Pure comedy gold

[RoccoR5955]

48. I have seen these several times

and they are far from red, white and blue:

Dr.Evil Banana Yellow suit

Grey deep pockets suit

[seekthetruth]

80. Oh good god.....

That's the most laughable comment I've seen on here yet, lewebley3. Seriously, did you just wake up from a year-long slumber, or are you really that naïve?

[lewebley3]

104. No. you are Sanders crazy tea bagger

Last edited Sat Apr 16, 2016, 12:45 PM - Edit history (1)

[Dragonfli]

110. oh dear, not again, time to reboot...

[seekthetruth]

114. The DNC is hitting its quota this month....hooray!

[lewebley3]

120. Do think of anything but you

[jwirr]

12. That pic is also saying more than her clothing. Look at

the man in the uniform in the background.

[Dragonfli]

19. I cropped it specifically to remind people of the (as her PR team has actually advised) her desribed

as more "muscular" regarding her strong stances on foreign policy. If I were in a crude mood, I would post this picture to illustrate what she and they should project regarding her strengths as discussed at the recent AIPAC speech she made.



Oh darn, I just did because I was listening to something on the radio and forgot not to control the impulse.
I know we are all supposed to love Nuttyyahoo and AIPAC, but I have always preferred these Israeli spokespeople to the US over them.

[haikugal]

85. I agree with you about J street being preferable, yep.

[MsFlorida]

33. How cool would it be

At the debate Bernie says I brought a gift for you Hillary and hands her this jacket!

[Duval]

72. Must borrow this picture!!

Maybe we need to have one made and send it to her.

[Dragonfli]

77. I wonder if one can buy company patches in such paces one might buy uniforms and such, or if

a company somewheer can produce them so we have the proper emblems to sow on the "Race car Driver" pantsuit jacket.

[lewebley3]

6. Hillary is working for the American people: She should where an American Flag

[BeanMusical]

14. Are you programed in C++ or Python?

Your OS seems to be Win 95 though.

[lewebley3]

17. Just telling the truth of Hillary's leadership against the GOP: Sanders sat doing nothing

your years while Hillary carried his water.

[BeanMusical]

18. BSOD!

[Dragonfli]

25. I think old BASIC, running on DOS 3.0, but that is just a guess. /nt

[BeanMusical]

32. A Commodore 64, maybe?

[Dragonfli]

39. I thought a Tandy 1000 sporting an 8086 CPU, but you may be correct, now that i think about it. /nt

[lewebley3]

106. Hillary will be a fantaat President: you are just failed Sanders persin

[BeanMusical]

107. What's a fantaat?

And no, I am not Persian.

[Dragonfli]

111. GIGO flaw, some major typos in it's data files. /nt

[BeanMusical]

112. Major malfunct...

[azmom]

3. Kick

[ChiciB1]

4. Thanks Farron, Problem Is That EVEN DLC/Third Way Democrats WILL NOT

even TRY to see facts! IGNORE is now being used as their "fight back" tool!

She lies and lies and lies or maybe just obfuscates. Whatever you want to call it, I can't trust her!

GOOD FOR AMERICA?? REALLY?? For me, NO, NO, NO!

[lewebley3]

7. Most Dem's are facing the facts: Sanders is an empty suit: He is hot air like Trump

[BeanMusical]

15. Most definitely Win 3.1

[Scootaloo]

41. Totes adorbs

[FighttheFuture]

90. An empty suit that is making Hillary, the MSM and her Banking buddies shit their britches.

Okay.

[NurseJackie]

9. Oh brother!

[BeanMusical]

37. Drunk on the bench or too much NyQuil™, judge?

[floriduck]

53. No, Judge Judy is a sister. You should know better. You're a nurse.

[BeanMusical]

16. Kick and R

[billhicks76]

20. Military Contractors For Hillary 2016!!!

[RoccoR5955]

52. Billionaire Bank Presidents for Clinton 2016! n/t

[haikugal]

89. Black Water for Clinton 2016!

[pnwmom]

21. Stop telling us that when 10,000 Boeing employees give money to someone,

that money is coming from Boeing.

[BeanMusical]

27. Oh dear, you can't possibly be so naive?

[pnwmom]

36. Every time I give a donation over $200, I have to list an employer. That doesn't mean the employer

is giving the donation.

It's coming from me.

[BeanMusical]

38. So the answer is yes.

[pnwmom]

45. No, the answer is I'm not naive. But some people are paranoid. n/t

[BeanMusical]

50. Well if you say so then I'm sorry that you're paranoid.

[pnwmom]

62. Anyone who thinks I'm donating on behalf of an employer is paranoid. n/t

[BeanMusical]

64. And who is thinking something like that?

For all I know you're not even employed.

[pnwmom]

71. The law requires that anytime anyone donates more than $200 that the names of employers

must be filled in. Later, all those separate donations get lumped together and reported in the media as a donation from the industry.

But that's crap. It's paranoid to believe all those people, including me, are colluding together.

[BeanMusical]

75. And where did I say that "all those people, including me, are colluding together"?

Having hallucinations?

[lostnfound]

116. I personally know executives who were told by CEO to donate big $

To politicians that they hated -- namely Tom Delay of Texas and his corrupt PACs. Big money meaning $10K per year, filtered through a Tom Delay PAC.

It's not paranoid; it's how the system works.

[Cassiopeia]

44. How much are those corporations donating to Super Pacs?

Those are direct corporate donations, not the tiny donations of their employees.

[pnwmom]

46. Both Hillary and Bernie want to overturn Citizens v. United,

but both are benefiting from Super Pac spending that they can't control.

Bernie has a nurses union openly supporting him; but also Karl Rove's super pac, among others, helping to fund attack ads against Hillary. Bernie can't stop them though because they are Super Pacs.

[RoccoR5955]

55. If Clinton wants to overturn Citizens United

Why is she taking super pac money? She has many unions behind her, doesn't she? Why does she need super pac money?

[pnwmom]

59. What money are you referring to? Super Pacs by definition aren't under the control of candidates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee

In its 2010 case Citizens United v. FEC, the Supreme Court of the United States overturned sections of the Campaign Reform Act of 2002 (also known as the McCain-Feingold Act) that had prohibited corporate and union political independent expenditures in political campaigns.[4] Citizens United made it legal for corporations and unions to spend from their general treasuries to finance independent expenditures related to campaigns, but did not alter the prohibition on direct corporate or union contributions to federal campaigns

[RoccoR5955]

83. The candidate can certainly tell the Super Pac

that they do not want them involved with their campaign, if (s)he wanted to.
Just because is is not illegal, does not mean that it is correct.
Especially when calling for an end to these sort of things.

[pnwmom]

95. Oh, really. Can Bernie tell the Rove super pac that he doesn't want them to produce

any more Hillary-attack ads? And do you think Rove will listen?

No, Bernie can't even tell the nurses union that supports him whether or how to spend their money, and Hillary can't instruct super pacs either -- one way or another.

Both of them have Super Pacs working independently on their behalf and neither can control them.

[RoccoR5955]

99. What Rove Super Pac?

Either substantiate your accusation or button it!
What about the regular PACs that Hill has? If she is for campaign finance reform, why the hell does she use them?

[pnwmom]

101. Here you go. They've been attacking her since the beginning, to Bernie's benefit.

But Bernie can't stop them because it's a super pac.

None of the candidates can control any of the super pacs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/karl-rove-hillary-clinton-wall-st_us_569bd413e4b0778f46f9a52f

WASHINGTON — Karl Rove’s American Crossroads operation is hammering Hillary Clinton with a new ad in Iowa calling her a tool of Wall Street.

“Ever wonder how Hillary Clinton can afford so many ads? Chances are, they were paid for with Wall Street cash,” the Rove ad declares. “Hillary Clinton’s gotten 54 times more money from Wall Street interests than from all of Iowa. Hillary rewarded Wall Street with the $700 billion bailout. And Wall Street made her a multi-millionaire... Does Iowa really want Wall Street in the White House?”

While there are elements of truth to the attack, it’s a hypocritical assault from a GOP operative who has happily accepted Wall Street funding for decades. It also reveals that Rove’s operation believes Clinton is a more formidable general election candidate than her progressive challenger, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt). But it just might end up helping Sanders win the first-in-the-nation Iowa caucus on Feb. 1.

SNIP

http://www.salon.com/2016/01/19/karl_rove_has_a_secret_plan_to_ratfck_hillary_and_make_himself_millions/

n a year when advertising dollars have done little to move voters, that won’t stop Rove from trying. So how is a GOP establishment Super PAC manager supposed to survive in 2016? He just has to be more creative in his dog-and-pony show to donors. “It looks like the Brooklyn Bridge isn’t for sale, but look over here. Here’s the Manhattan Bridge. Let’s see if we can buy this one!” In other words, pivot away from helping establishment GOP candidates, and run ads in the Democratic primary.

Now, Rove is likely making the case to the big GOP donors, who are a little Super PAC shy, that he’s the only one who can stop Hillary from being elected president. More specifically, they have to stop her in the Democratic primary because the leading GOP candidates, Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, can’t beat her in the general election. The old socialist from Vermont, Bernie Sanders, is an easier opponent for Trump or Cruz in November. So don’t waste your money with Bush, Rubio, Kasich, Christie. Send it to Crossroads. That’s the best investment. Rove will beat Clinton in the primary, so we will have a chance of winning in the general. That’s the pitch from Rove, and it’s just got to be the motivation behind the anti-Clinton ads.

[RoccoR5955]

102. From a source that is in Clinton's pocket

Thanks. Try again!

[pnwmom]

103. Salon isn't in Clinton's pocket. They're one of the stages for Goodman, the Rand Paul supporter. n/t

[RoccoR5955]

105. no but huffington post is.

and that's where your link points to. And what makes you think that a supporter of the man with two first names wants someone who is not a corporatist?
Uh Uh, I still believe that your links are in the pocket of Clinton.
Try again. Perhaps the third time's the charm.

[pnwmom]

109. This is common knowledge that was reported in many outlets. Get your head out of the sand. n/t

[Duppers]

26. When you've opposed Repubs taking bribes err money

But you think it's okay for Hillary to do so, something wrong with the wiring.

[thebeautifulstruggle]

29. if Hillary weren't accepting corporate money

i would think much more favorably of her as a candidate

to me, in the biggest way possible, it makes her similar to any Republican running against her, other than Trump of all people

both parties serve and protect the monied elite while the 2 bases fight over social issues that don't effect the elite

[ViseGrip]

31. I guess Hillary's supporters like Citizens United ....or they would fund her like Bernie supporters.

[Jack Rabbit]

35. If there is no quid quo pro . . .

. . . then it's because Mrs. Clinton has been on the wrong side of the issues regarding trade and regulation from the start.

If that is the case, I could no more support her than I could support Ronald Reagan. True, Mrs. Clinton has a better record than he did on issues of social inclusiveness, and I feel very passionately about those. However, as long as she mimics the corporate line on regulation and trade and promotes policies that have brought ruin to the American middle class, her mostly positive record on racial minority rights, gay rights and women's right are meaningless.

[CrowCityDem]

42. It's not the best thing...

... but it's not different than taking money from a labor union, who would expect the candidate to support labor-friendly policies. I don't see Bernie or his supporters calling unions corruption.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

63. Heaven forbid a Democrat should be known for representing the working class.

[CrowCityDem]

67. It's a philosophical question

If taking money from a group who expects you to vote in their interest is corruption when it's a corporation, why isn't it when it's a labor union? They aren't dissimilar situations.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

82. The fact that you can't see that there is says a lot....

It's like claiming there's no difference between taking money from Greenpeace or a Japanese whale cannery.

[CrowCityDem]

86. What I see...

is that this entire discussion Bernie started has nothing to do with actual money, but is just another way of saying Wall Street and corporations are evil.

As I said in the last post, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with taking money from unions. I just want to know if there's any actual philosophical argument to be made for why the appearance of selling a vote to one group is ok, and the appearance of selling a vote to another group isn't. Logically, it makes no sense unless you believe that Wall Street is inherently evil.

[haikugal]

92. You're supporting the right candidate alright....

[zalinda]

93. You don't see that one group

represents the people who own the corporation and the other group who represents those who work for corporations?
The first group wants to become more wealthy, while the second group wants their labor to be fairly compensated.

There is a big difference, and you can't see it?

Z

[CrowCityDem]

96. Big = bad, small = good. Got it.

[Jack Rabbit]

98. Good. Don't forget it.

!!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

113. Because the two groups are different.

[jwirr]

76. You are missing the point. Wall Street money and the payback

goes totally against Democratic values. We have always until the 90s been the party of the people including labor unions. The New Democrats are now representing the corporations, bankers and the 1% instead of the people.

What the real argument today is about is rather we are going to return to being the party of the people or if we are going to be the party of the corporations, bankers and the 1%.

[CrowCityDem]

78. That doesn't answer the philosophical question

Why is it ok to take money from one group who expects your support, but not another?

Corruption is an activity, not a person. It shouldn't matter who is on the giving end of the money. The intent is what makes it corrupt.

(I'm not saying taking the money from a union is corrupt. I'm curious how this doesn't fall back on the wrong corporations=evil mantra)

[Cassiopeia]

84. Clearly labor friendly policies are just as bad a banking friendly policies.

[CrowCityDem]

87. Neither is inherently good nor bad. I'm asking why they're different.

[brewens]

47. It's been decades now since I first heard the explanation of why democrats were playing the

republicans game. It was never okay. It worked for ambitious people with no worthwhile values or character, but it screwed the rest of us. They sold us out at every opportunity. If it takes Hilllary down, she has it coming to her.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

61. +1

From who you accept money defines who you are.

[saturnsring]

73. more bernie bro porn

[SoapBox]

79. It sure as fuck is NOT ok.

...that damned money corrupts.

PERIOD.

[kpola12]

81. Amy Goodman just put out a great segment on Hillary and Honduras.

Worth watching.

[colsohlibgal]

119. Really

They aren't throwing millions and millions to her without expecting something in return.

It is going to be nearly impossible to enact huge change for the better without deep sixing Citizens United and going to public funding of elections.