How Many Checkpoints in One Morning?! Welcome to the Police State!

[Pryderi]

[grasswire]

1. how many?

for those of us who can't or don't want to watch a video clip.

[Major Nikon]

9. He said 3, I only counted 2 from the video

This is not uncommon near the border. CBP has numerous checkpoints. Unless you go off-road, you can't travel north from the border without crossing one or two. They aren't always active, but depending on the area they are quite a bit of the time.

[PatrynXX]

23. they've got checkpoints around here but not this sort

there's a good reason to have checkpoints then there's a waste of taxpayer money's version like this.. Our checkpoints. well we are looking for 2 missing girls from Evansdale IA. But yeah if someone asked me if I'm from the USA I might hesitate on that one... maybe even go to the secondary. Kinda hard not to be born in the USA stuck in the middle of the country... Exactly how is that supposed to help. bout as much as copy protecting a movie. screw the actual owners verses those who copy.

[doccraig67]

34. He probably didn't start recording untill after the first checkpoint.

[Major Nikon]

35. It's possible

I'm just not sure how someone would have to pass through 3 of them on a normal commute. There just aren't that many checkpoints. I think there's only around 75 nationwide. They place them strategically so you have to pass at least one if you're heading north on non-interstate highways. If there is 3 of them you need to pass, I think that would be an unusual situation. I rarely have to pass more than one per trip anywhere around the border, but that's in Texas and I think someone said this guy was in California.

[Kali]

48. I can hit 3 in about 90 minutes, 4 in 2 hours pretty easily

three in Cochise County and one in Pima

nevermind all the agents driving around - they hassle me all the fucking time
send the noobs to the house to talk with the nice rancher lady - seems to be a little bit of a hazing routine

[ret5hd]

2. Good on ya, bro!

[NYC_SKP]

3. I love that he knows his stuff. How many of us do?

I applaud him for his knowledge and perseverance.

K/R

[newfie11]

4. Unbelievable!!!

What state was this in?

[Pryderi]

8. Westbound I-8 in Southern California (an East-West highway that NEVER intersects the international b

from the link

[LeftofObama]

5. You have to give the guy credit.

He's certainly not letting them push him around!

[rocktivity]

6. Don't think that his being white didn't hurt.

But I would have told the cop I was a citizen -- he didn't ask of which country!


rocktivity

[zeemike]

7. If he had not been white.

They would have had him out of that car and on the ground with a knee it his back...and probably tasered.
But you notice the look on their faces when he said no?....the sheeple don't usually say no to them.

[Kali]

49. bingo

and around there they don't fall for that one - used to - my German friend got by with it a few times, now they ask "are you a US citizen"

[matt819]

10. Irritating

This guy was irritating, but, in the end, he was right. Some comments, though:

It would be helpful to know where this was and the nature of the stop. That may not justify it, but it would help to explain.

The Nazi references were unnecessary. I know it's a lousy excuse, but the cops were doing what they were directed to do. These guys didn't wake up that morning with the objective of pissing off motorists.

Also, we don't know how many checkpoints, thought the driver said he had been stopped twice, which would make three checkpoints. The video is five minutes, but the driver refers to having been stopped in traffic due to the checkpoints for 30 minutes. I thought all the cops looked the same, so I'm not sure about the veracity of the video.

At every(?) checkpoint, the cops did let him go on without a secondary inspection, based on his assertion that he did not have to respond as asked. It might have been appropriate for the cops to take the opportunity to explain the checkpoint and then acknowledge to the driver that in the absence of reasonable cause to stop him specifically he was free to go. That would have demonstrated that the cops were fully trained and respectful of the law, rather than being browbeaten into letting the driver go on.

[Major Nikon]

16. It was a CBP checkpoint

They are all over the place near the border. You can't drive north from the border on a paved road without passing at least 1 checkpoint and often 2. The checkpoints aren't always active.

What used to really piss me off about them was if you were traveling with a baby, they will ask you all sorts of secondary questions.

[1monster]

17. You must have missed the point where one officer tells another to "run this car real quick"...

They didn't just let him go. They ran his tags through their data base.

[matt819]

18. I did catch that

From the video it appeared that that he went on pretty quickly after that. So either they didn't run the plates or the information came back very quickly. And, let's face it, they can do that any time they want.

[OutNow]

28. unnecessary Nazi references? No - very necessary Nazi references

So, the Nazi references weren't cool because "the cops were doing what they were directed to do". Every Nazi on trail charged with war crimes at Nuremberg (well maybe not Goering and a couple of others) claimed they were just following orders - just doing what they were directed to do. That's not a valid excuse for acting like a Nazi, whether it's the 1930s in Germany or the 2010s in the USA.

Stopping people to ask if they're a citizen, followed by:
Asking them to just line up over by the wall for a few questions, followed by:
Taking them to jail just until we straighten out a small problem, followed by:
......
.......
Telling them to sew a yellow star on their coat just so they are easier to identify, followed by:
Making sure they only carry one suitcase when they get on the train....

The Nazis didn't fire up the ovens the day after they took power in Germany. It took several years to condition the people one small step at a time.

The guy in the video pointed out the obvious similarities to Nazis. I believe he was correct.

[DeSwiss]

52. Duck Test:

- If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

[SunDrop23]

56. +1 (nfm)

[Kali]

50. not local cops

border patrol - homeland security, baby! show us your papers! land of the free home of the SAFE

[DeSwiss]

53. It's always appropriate to call a Nazi a Nazi.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=48025

[stockholmer]

11. and it is only going to get worse and worse and worse and worse.....

[rocktivity]

12. How would you go about proving you're a citizen, anyway?

Having a driver's license doesn't prove you're a citizen. Would it have mattered if this guy were an immigrant in the U.S. legally? Would this guy have been busted if he'd had an international driver's license or passport?

Having a vehicle registration or insurance doesn't prove you're a citizen. You could be driving a borrowed or rented car.

Are we supposed to start carrying around our birth certificates or a passport now?


rocktivity

[Major Nikon]

13. The purpose isn't to prove anything

They could just as well ask you what you had for breakfast. The officers are trained in how to recognize "suspicious" behavior. So they are asking the question simply to provoke a response they can evaluate with their internal suspicion meter.

[rocktivity]

15. Well, it sure works, LOL!

If you ARE an American citizen, what could be LESS "suspicious" than being insulted by being pulled over just to be asked if you're an American citizen?


rocktivity

[Plucketeer]

21. If it were financially feasible

I wouldn't BE a citizen of this fascist state. Give up a bit of freedom in exchange for "security" and rightfully expect to lose both.

[stlsaxman]

30. "Are you an American Citizen?" "I had bacon for breakfast- what's more American than THAT???"

"get this guy into detention- he called me a pig!"

[TlalocW]

14. Good on him

If you're not doing anything wrong then the police have no right to ask for anything from you as far as I'm concerned.

If this ever happens to me, I hope I have this guy's convictions.

Unfortunately, if I do, I'll probably be a bigger wise-ass and switch accents with each question asked me.

(Stereotypical Indian) Oh, I do not think that you are to be stopping me without a just cause, thankyouverymuch.
(Stereotypical French) Ah ahm.... how do you zay... simply out in my automo-beel ce soir. (French laugh)
(Stereotypical Australian) G'day mate! I'm just out to get some more shrimps to throw on the barbie.

TlalocW

[rwsanders]

19. A couple of phrases to remember...

Probable Cause
and
Reasonable Suspicion

So if you are stopped ask why. Without either, they can't stop you or ask for ID.

But when they ran the plates it reminds me of the Ben Franklin quote about how those who sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither. We never should have allowed them to put an identification on our cars.

[valerief]

20. Wow, that's really atrocious. But I have to say one thing.

If he was in Massachusetts...

[AnotherMcIntosh]

22. With that attitude, he is obviously an American. Good for him.

But most people would give in and not risk getting zapped or worse.

[Quantess]

54. No, not really. He is unusual.

I have a friend who works for the swedish airport security, and she says Americans are some of the most cooperative and polite travellers. Swedes themselves, however, are still making "inappropriate jokes" and are often uncooperative.

Americans have been conditioned that "this is a post 9-11 world" at a more intense rate than other nationalities.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

55. Yes, really. The fact that he responded in a unconventional way does not mean that he

had an un-American attitude.

So your Swedish friend who works in airport security is pleased that Americans are more docile than the Swedes that she encounters. Her perception is based upon the limited number of Americans who fly and who she encounters.

Many others of us who encounter Gestapo-like governmental employees like the driver in the video, share and can identify with his attitude. Many of us who don't fly and subject ourselves to TSAs are, instead of being willingly cooperative and polite, rightfully pissed off.

[indie9197]

24. Actually, I hate to break it to the guy but...

If you are within 100 miles of the border they do have the right and authority to pull you over or stop you and ask you questions. And if you don't answer the questions you can be detained until you do. I am surprised they let him go so easily. I don't like it either but I would at least research the laws before I took a chance like that.

[indie9197]

25. and the 100 mile zone includes coastal boundaries of the Pacific and Atlantic oceans! n/t

[Major Nikon]

29. This is just wrong

The authority that CBP has at checkpoints are different than the authority they have to pull you over. If they pull you over, they must have reasonable suspicion just like any other cop. At checkpoints they have the authority to brieflydetain you to ask questions, but that's it. They do not have the authority to hold you for hours even if you don't answer their questions. You don't give up your fourth amendment rights just because you're near the border.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Brignoni-Ponce#Court.27s_Decision

[indie9197]

32. Yes you are right

but reasonable suspicion includes suspicion of carrying illegals, drugs, or terrorist weapons. So if your car is a little loaded down because you are on vacation....

I searched for a similar article on this site and didn't see it so here is an article from a couple of weeks ago. It seems like they are ramping up inspections on the northern border. Funny, but I didn't know we really had a problem up there!

http://www.gsnmagazine.com/node/26881?c=border_security

[Major Nikon]

33. Reasonable suspicion can mean a lot of things

The key word being "reasonable". Would a judge find your scenario reasonable? I don't know. If you have a judge that places a high value on liberty, I doubt it. However, there are plenty of things people may do that trigger their own search through no fault of their own. For instance, if CBP had intelligence information that a cartel was using a specific type of car to smuggle drugs, you might get tapped for secondary inspection just because you have that type of car.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

26. Try this with a British accent.

Then learn German.

[MADem]

27. They have those in northern Maine all the time...! The fastest way to get through them is to

lean out the window with an eager, gossipy look on your face and say, in Merv Griffinesque tones, "OOOOooooooooooooooohhh!!!!! What's going ON???? Is this like, you know, COPS? Or America's Most Wanted? Who's on the loose? Do TELL!!!!!"

They'll wave ya through without asking a damn thing. Really. I've done it twice so far!

[HopeHoops]

31. Nazi crap.

[Major Nikon]

36. The Paulites go nuts over this stuff, but at least it's funny as hell

Yer might have una them mass destruction bombs in this here Kia...

[HopeHoops]

37. "Papers please."

[Major Nikon]

38. "We git people haulin' an-idrus in their cars"

Now that's just ignant.

It gets really good starting at the 8:30 point or so. Notice also how the rube cop has a crack in his windshield that's illegal.

[HopeHoops]

39. He wasn't even drivin' while dark-skinned.

ON EDIT: I'd get pulled over for "drivin' while brown" because I've got Native American blood and tan easily. I change race by June.

[Major Nikon]

40. Me two, but the only brown I got is a ring around my asshole

[HopeHoops]

45. I wouldn't go anywhere NEAR AZ right now - I've already changed race for the summer.

[indie9197]

42. I wish DUers would go nuts over this stuff also!

going 72 in a 70. Total BS. It's not funny and it could happen anywhere.

[Major Nikon]

43. The situation might not be funny, but the players were funny as 'ell

The rube cop was a riot. The Paulite passenger was funny as shit too.

It happens especially in TX. Even municipal cops and constables for no good reason will pull people over on the interstates, especially if you're heading south. They are looking for drug money going back into Mexico. Whatever they can shakedown from the drug mules, they get to keep.

I got pulled over by a municipal cop on the interstate heading south. I had my cruise set exactly on the speed limit which was 70. The cop said I was doing 80. He wrote me a 'warning' and on my way I went. He was a real asshole about it so the next day I mailed in a written complaint to the police dept. for all the good it did. The police chiefs are the ones sending them out to do it.

[indie9197]

44. I would like a serious response

Why don't DUers get pissed off by checkpoint crap? I promise I am not republican in disguise. Am disgusted with them. If the Dem party would be protesting all this "homeland security" BS, they would be getting a lot of the independent vote. They should be taking in all the Ron Paul supporters that were dumped by the Republican Party.

[Sedona]

41. The password at the checkpoints in Arizona and California is...

"Howdy"



Works every single time. Then again, I'm blatantly white.

[Lars77]

46. They seem to know they can't force him

Otherwise they would've pulled him out of the car and tazed the shit out of him.

[3128]

47. as Americans all of us, me and you must use his tone of voice and his resolved words

and i will guarantee you that the check points will evaporate ...
the key word is "all"

[Kali]

51. I haven't tried that yet

almost motivates me to go waste a few gallons to try it out

I usually crank the radio to Mexican station and leave the window up until they ask me to roll it down. I do answer their questions and but I don't give details. To where are you going I will say on to whatever the next town is, and likewise coming from whatever was the last town.

Of course I am middleaged, white and female so not much of a threat. It is the vehicles I tend to drive that attract the most attention


I am laughing and joking here but I absolutely HATE this shit. This is one of those issues I DO run pretty libertarian on. It brings many of us together down here on the frontier.

[SunDrop23]

57. Fabulous! (nfm)