The DU Lounge
Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsI really effed up at work today.
There are only one or two people I talk to/email - ok, kind of gossip with - about issues at work, and I don't do it that often. It's mostly about people aren't pulling their weight or people who create extra work, etc., usually via email or IM.
Anyway, we have all been really busy over the last few months and I have been really crazy trying to get a ton of different things done at once, so toward the end of the day I noticed that once again, this new person, who has been on the job for maybe two months was not at work again. She's honestly in about twice a week. It would be one thing if she was doing a bang up job, but she is barely keeping her head above water, she is a complete hot mess and has no clue what she is doing.
She has been trained on a number of things and but has no recollection of them when you ask her about them. People on the team take time out of their own busy schedules to help her - practically carry her - and yet she still rarely shows up, which to me just seems very arrogant and ungrateful. She's either "wfh" or sick or something else. I don't know exactly why she's not there all the time, but she is conspicuously absent a lot and everyone notices
So - what I did. I sent an email to this friend and said "Well, X didn't show up again today. And then I said "She's almost as bad as "Y" who is also someone who never shows up, but is more competent. "She's brand new and can barely do her job, so she really shouldn't be out of the office this much". That was pretty much it. I didn't call her any names or say anything else bad about her. My big mistake was that I also meant to send to the other person I talked to and in my haste put HER name on the email and she got it.
She sent the email to our team manager and the head of HR and whined about how hard she worked, and why she was so hurt (she always has excuses) so my boss called me at work (I was there late). He told me what she said. And he was very understanding but wanted me to apologize in person and to be more understanding. We chatted for a while and he didn't seem terrible angry, but thought it was unacceptable. If he only knew what other people were saying about her that she wasn't hearing about, but I guess that's not the point. I got caught.
By this time, I had already realized she rec'd the email and wrote her an apology telling her there was no excuse for what I had done and I should have just been minding my own business, but that some of us get frustrated when certain people don't show up and the rest of us work hard. I said it was no excuse to be catty and I was sorry for hurting her feelings and wished her a good night. I refrained from being defensive other than explaining my frustration. I read my manager my apology and forwarded to him showing him that I had already recognized my mistake before he called and that I had planned to apologize in person.
Anyway, sorry for the long post, but it really shook me up because I have never done anything this stupid before. I am hoping I can make it right, but wondering if anyone has ever done anything like this before and if so, how did you handle it. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks!
samnsara
(17,655 posts).. I started doubting(forgetting even!) all my goodness ( I AM a good person!) and dwelling on my bad points. I was so hard on myself sometimes I needed a shot of tequila in the morning just to disassociate a bit ( I wasnt driving anywhere at that time). The only thing that helped was time and LOTS of it..(and being busy with a puppy and two behavior challenged rescues and and old dog) altho your wound may not heal so easily since you have a daily reminder of the incident.
You may want to talk to someone in your company EAP.
I learned a long time ago never to send anything or say anything to anyone I wouldnt want my mom or the world to see. Im never lucky enuff to not get caught.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I barely made it home to my bathroom in time where I got sick. I am a total stomach reactor.
Then I just started doing dishes and cleaning just to distract myself. It helped to calm me down. I decided to unload here because I was too paranoid to talk to anyone at work. I will talk to some other friends later this week once I sort things out.
Thanks for understanding samnsara!
gainesvillenole
(121 posts)But your mistake (besides the obvious one of including her among the recipients of your email) was putting this stuff in writing, particularly email within the organization which is NOT protected or private..... Always discuss (if you must) these things verbally, preferably away from the workplace (such as at lunch or after work grabbing a beer).....
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I barely slept at all last night and was stressed out today so it was easy to make a dumb mistake. I hope I have have learned a lesson.
fleur-de-lisa
(14,628 posts)Sorry, I dont have a similar story. But good on you for apologizing immediately. They have to appreciate that.
If it makes you feel any better, I chewed out a coworker yesterday on an internal conference call because he is a know-it-all asshole, who in fact, only has a few years of experience and actually knows nothing.
Both of the owners were also on the call. One of the owners is the know-it-alls father. Yep, I chewed out his son.
And not only did I not get fired or even reprimanded, I think both owners appreciated the fact that a tore that little punk a new asshole. Nobody likes him, not even his father!
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I don't have a history of doing anything like this, so I hope they will allow it to pass with an apology. Also, it's true, and I even think my boss thinks it's true, but he is responsible for keeping the peace on the team. I have seen him reprimand her many times for texting in meetings when she should have been paying attention or prioritizing personal things above work (he's usually very fair, unless someone is consistently below par). Anyway, thank you!
ms liberty
(8,618 posts)And since you'd already written an apology email you showed your boss that you were cognizant of your mistake ane sincere in wanting to rectify the situation. If you speak to the person to apologize, i would suggest just a simple I'm sorry, ask for forgiveness and plead a really bad day(s). And then be yourself, but be more careful about venting to coworkers! Stuff happens, don't worry too much about it.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)No gushing. She's a little bit of a head-case, so I really don't want to get into it with her too much. Just an honest apology and hope to move on. Thank you!
mopinko
(70,290 posts)took a long time for that to blow over.
wasnt mean. just expressed some concerns about my nephew in the army.
went on to catch her up about me and my kids, as we hadnt talked for a long time, and figured everyone would want to hear my news. oops.
we eventually got over it.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)When people find out what you really think and you never wanted them to know? Good lesson to learn about putting your real thoughts in writing. I think that's why I never kept a diary.
Skittles
(153,258 posts)didn't your boss have an opinion about people not being at work?
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)From what I heard, they couldn't wait to unload her, and my current boss had his doubts all along. However, he is very compassionate, especially toward women who seem to have "issues" and I definitely think she does. I have seen him do this before and he really goes out of his way to give people the benefit of the doubt.
However, he even said to me tonight that we have to try to have some compassion for the stress she is under and give her some time and eventually, if she doesn't measure up, a decision will need to be made. I think he knows that she isn't going to make it but he is willing to give her a chance. She says she doesn't come in because she is too "stressed" and she needs time alone to concentrate (I saw the email she sent him). She's definitely a piece of work. Very manipulative.
Skittles
(153,258 posts)people who don't show up means someone else cannot go home
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)to the other people on the team who work very hard and do show up - and end up having to take extra time out to train her on specific skills - because she doesn't put the work in to learn. So yeah, I guess it does mean other people don't get to go home on time. She is just not up to the job she was hired for.
TexasTowelie
(112,589 posts)What was considered "unacceptable" is that you introduced drama into the workplace which always turns out to be a mistake. While there is usually catty gossip and remarks at most places of employment if you are the new employee's supervisor it isn't your job to evaluate her performance.
I would apologize to her in a face-to-face conversation rather than in an email for the simple fact that it is more genuine and you can convey emotions that cannot be done online, then hope that she is reasonable with you. Afterwards I would cross my fingers that if she is terminated that she doesn't name you in a lawsuit saying that you contributed to a hostile work environment for her based upon how she interacted with the management as you mentioned in your OP.
Since it appears that other people are noticing her problems with attendance and that her performance doesn't meet expectations, what are the chances that she doesn't make it past the probationary period? Is the new employee in a unique demographic group (or protected class) so that she might receive some leeway for contributing to a diverse workforce as a consideration? It doesn't seem reasonable that the company would want to keep a clunker, but I don't know the conditions such as what type of business you work for or whether the unemployment rate is so low that they have to accept any "warm body" they come across.
Yes, you made a mistake and it could come back to bite you so I'll wish you good luck. However, it could also work out well in the end for both of you. The new employee is now aware that other people are noticing her mediocre job performance that she needs to improve, while you can learn from the experience also. The lessons I would take home are to not gossip about your colleagues and to keep your opinions to yourself. I hope and wish the best for you.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I think the reason she has not been terminated already is because she is in a "unique demographic group", but so are a lot of others on the team and they don't have the same problems that she does.
In fact, i think our company has bent over backward to keep her because of fear of a lawsuit. She is extremely incompetent and takes ridiculous liberties, especially for someone so new. I have the feeling that she knows what she is doing, and that is what worries me, but nothing I said was untrue and there was no recurring pattern. Besides, there are numerous people who are really fed up w/ her BS. I don't think there is anyone who would say she was a good worker.
She asked me for the name and number of the HR person weeks ago, so I think she's been complaining about other people as well. I haven't had an issue with her until now.
However, I will definitely keep my opinions to myself going forward. Thank you!
milestogo
(16,829 posts)Your story is a reminder for all of us.
You already apologized and owned the mistake. Make a vow to yourself to be more careful in the future. Anything you write in a chat or an email can end up being viewed by HR.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I am an idiot. I know that.
pnwest
(3,266 posts)that kinda shit in writing. Besides the possibility of the mistake you made yourself, once something like that is out there, you never know who is gonna forward what to whom. Your emails might even be monitored by IT or management, and now with every cell phone having recording capabilities, I wouldnt even whisper something like that in a quiet corner at work. Keep it zipped up and dont say shit about shit at work. Ever.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)But who knows what someone like that will do with that kind of information.
Dan
(3,585 posts)Watch your ass, this will not be forgotten either by the co-worker or management or HR.
The co-worker in your shoes I would never engage in private (without someone else with you), especially if different gender.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)a reason to blame someone else for an excuse for why she will be let go or have to leave on her own. I don't trust her.
UTUSN
(70,772 posts)1) the bosses weren't "understanding" and 2) the computer age was ushered in on us, and we broke in the hidden snags.
The big deal was NEVER/*NEVER* to use the work network for *anything* not Work. When Facebook came along, this strongly ingrained attitude against putting personal messaging into the computer became extreme suspicion/distrust/paranoia against the sometimes shocking things people were putting out there.
During my retirement, DU has been my one real internet outlet, where I have let my guard down to an extent, and Lounge is a witness to the loose lips self-disclosure, which, as bad as it might seem, still is not full-out.
The decline of Facebook shows how people have become more careful, with the rising tide of: Only trust what you say face to face.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I sometimes think being paranoid is a healthy way to react these days.
MaryMagdaline
(6,858 posts)Im a 40% partner of my firm and said something about an employee hired by my partner. I was joking around about this employee and was overheard by two employees, one of whom was my partners son who was greatly offended because the employee was a friend of his (another nepotism hire by my partner). So I violated our own rules against talking about an employee in front of another employee. We just had meetings about bullying and Im the bully. I was sick about it the whole weekend. I cant get fired for it; my partners son will never tell his friend; the worst that could happen is one of the employees could use it against us in an employment hearing. However it made me sick and made me hate myself for doing what I criticize in other people. Yep Im the bitch this time and no excuses. What you did was accidental and I think your supervisor knows that. It happens.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)stupid mistakes, especially when we are stressed out and frustrated with other co-workers. Which is extremely common. So we let off some steam and maybe aren't very wise about it. It really sucks to get caught, but that is how we learn that our behavior has consequences not only for us but for other people.
It literally made me sick tonight. I came home just in time to get sick in the bathroom.
MaryMagdaline
(6,858 posts)by telling me that what I said was the truth and people get frustrated. Ill tell you the same - Im sure that what you said was the truth about your co-worker and Im sure your supervisor knows it was true. Go easy on yourself and feel better!
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I'm not looking forward to tomorrow, but I guess they have to do the right thing by this person.
MaryMagdaline
(6,858 posts)UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)MaryMagdaline
(6,858 posts)But theres no way Ill ever have the same respect from the employees who heard me. My mother used to say, you cant take back words; once you let them out, theyre out.
Thank you for the kind words!
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The problem is if you do it enough, those comments will inevitably wind up going places you wish they hadnt.
MaryMagdaline
(6,858 posts)Iggo
(47,583 posts)Never talk shit about co-workers in an email.
I mean, try not to do it at all.
But don't ever write it down.
Ohiogal
(32,134 posts)that allows me to take back an email after I hit Send.... it lasts for about ten seconds... .I have never used it but am glad its there, in case I ever goof up and send something to someone I shouldnt have. I dont have a similar story to relate but I can only imagine the panic you must have felt! I would have reacted the same way. It sounds like you did everything you could to make it right. Technology.... sometimes good, sometimes very bad!
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I was just too stressed and too tired. If I hadn't have been, I probably never would have made such a stupid mistake in the first place. Once I realized it, it was too late to hit "recall". I guess it serves me right. Maybe it will cure me of a bad habit. Thanks, Ohiogal!
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,925 posts)("Stephanie, do you have those budget numbers ready?" or "Larry, is your sales report finished?" should ALWAYS and ONLY go out on a personal email account.
All too often people use their work email as their general email, which is a truly crappy idea, especially as a lot of companies have clear-cut rules about how the work email is to be used. And then they're shocked when they find out management has been reading their emails, which is their perfect right.
All of my sanctimoniousness aside, you appear to have made exactly the kind of apology warranted I hope she's big enough to accept it.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)person. The only thing is she kind of scares me a little. She's not the most stable person in the world. My boss said he would come in with us together. I kind of hope he does. Thanks Poindexter!
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,925 posts)It's hard.
I've had my share of screw-ups at work. They never happened to involve emails, but that's because most of my working life occurred before emails, and the two or three jobs I had after email was there, I'd already figured out to totally separate work email from personal email.
Actually, I'm rather good at apologies. What I need to get a lot better at is not creating the situation that requires an apology.
BlueSpot
(856 posts)Maybe I'm just lucky but I've also never had a job where you screw up, get busted, sincerely apologize and don't do it again doesn't result in forgiveness. I know this from experience as I have been yelled at a few times in my career.
Everybody makes mistakes. Owning up to them and then learning from them is growth. Your future actions will demonstrate this. It might be awhile before you can forgive yourself but you will in time.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)That makes me feel better. I know this will pass eventually. I have honestly never screwed up this badly. Hopefully I never will again.
BlueSpot
(856 posts)I don't know your age or anything but, unless you're about to retire, it is likely you will put your foot in your mouth again. Totally different circumstance and it will catch you by surprise. Just remember to own it and learn from it. No one is prepared for every possibility. How you respond is what matters. And phony won't work. Be true.
Best lesson I ever learned in life is that you will never be perfect. Set your sights on always improving your "batting average"and you'll be OK or better.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I won't again. It's not like I will never make a mistake again, but hopefully not one this big.
I will be honest. I do not have a lot of respect for this person, but I will apologize respectfully. I really did not want to hurt her. I don't dislike her, but it bothers me how she takes advantage of people. However, that is really none of my business I guess. That is between them and her. I will let them deal with it.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,350 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Olafjoy
(937 posts)I used to have such a big mouth at work. I would complain and talk sh#% about people who sound just like the ones you were talking about. I just love the diarrhea on Monday and migraines on Friday people both of which are the busiest days at my job. Little did I know my co-worker was going to my boss and telling her everything I was saying. Needless to say, I got reamed. I never say a word about anyone at work to anyone at work. Never. Only to my family.
I also have broken my bad habit of always jumping in to help people at the expense of my work. my son is a recent college grad with his first job. I have repeatedly warned him never ever to talk or complain at work. Complain to me, any time I told him. Boy does he. Apparently Brent is the worst.
I so feel for you Smirky! Ugh. So sorry!! Such a crappy feeling...
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I guess I think when things like this happen, there is always a lesson. I don't know what will happen, but I honestly don't I technically did anything that was a major breach of protocol, just something that was ethically distasteful. I didn't lie, I didn't cheat. I didn't say anything that wasn't true. I did something that was in poor judgment, stupid and catty.
Thanks for your concern!
backtoblue
(11,347 posts)When I was in college I had a professor Schofield whom I nicknamed "Professor Scrotum" in my email.
I had no idea that the nickname showed up in his email......
He was really hard on me, but I had been calling him scrotum for two years before I realized he knew...
I was embarrassed and learned a big lesson in not sending (or texting) ANYTHING that I wouldn't want someone else to see.
Your situation sucks. Good for you on your apology. Hope the awkwardness from it goes away soon.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)There is nothing worse than realizing that you have majorly fucked up in print. Well, maybe there is, but it is incredibly humiliating and there is no going back. The only way forward is a sincere apology. Nothing gushing. Just a straightforward and heartfelt apology.
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)and the problem is the management is not addressing it. Management is creating resentment by not addressing the issue and OF COURSE the other employees are going to talk about the one who is not showing up constantly. The problem is with the management ...NOT YOU.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I admire my boss for giving her a chance, but she has been a burden on the rest of the team - including my boss - because of her incompetency. Sooner or later they will have to realize she is too much of a burden to carry. I honestly believe she is taking advantage and playing on people's sympathies, especially my manager, who is a very caring person. But she is taking a toll on him as well. She is dragging the whole team down and it just isn't fair.
There are many people who are resentful that this isn't being addressed. I was wrong for doing what I did, but there is still a problem.
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)names, you didn't disparage....you said the truth. The more this person gets away with the more bullshit they will try. If anything it is you who could go to HR because this person is not working her full allotted time. She has all these days off? Is she getting paid while not showing up???
People are gonna be people and people are going to talk...yeah you fucked up by putting her name on the email but I don't see what you have to apologize for...FOR WHAT?? Because you said she doesn't show up which is the truth!!
Your bosses have some fucking nerve I tell you.
3catwoman3
(24,085 posts)Last edited Wed Nov 13, 2019, 11:38 PM - Edit history (1)
...wish you could go back in time a few minutes.
How is it that someone who has only been on the job a couple of months can get away with not showing up for work so frequently? Competence, or lack thereof not withstanding, not showing up is usually cause for getting canned.
I suffer from a ridiculous excess of self-control, which has its own downside, but does tend to protect one from foot-in-mouth syndrome, whether spoken or written. I only ever win arguments when talking to myself in my car, and sometimes not even then. In my next life, I fantasize about coming back as a restaurant or movie critic, so I could be free to say, "That really sucks," not feel bad about saying so, and getting paid to say it. Might be fun. Restaurant critic would be better - I wouldn't want to watch a lot of crappy movies.
Hang in there.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I remember her first week, she asked me how often people come into the office during the week. Her first week! She was already looking for a way to stay home. We have a fairly flexible policy as far as core "in office" days/hours go and most people respect it, but she has abused it from the beginning.
However people who are on probation or having performance problems are usually required to be in 5 days per week. She's not on official probation in this position yet since she hasn't even been here long enough to go on it. She's maybe in 2 days per week and then not even the entire day. Nobody takes advantage that much. Not even the senior people.
Thank you!
AJT
(5,240 posts)Maybe getting to know her a bit, and she getting to know you, may help settle things down.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)She isn't a bad person, but I do think she might have some issues. She reminds me of some people I have known before. They are manipulative and crazy making. I have nothing against her, but I don't trust her.
WestLosAngelesGal
(268 posts)...go on walks with my trusted confidante on our breaks and never put any criticism in writing. It was all verbal and it was way before cell phones when I worked there. I was pretty sure that a network administrator read every email in an office that I worked in. Email was kind of a new thing when I worked there and they wanted to ensure that people were using it for only work purposes.
FakeNoose
(32,843 posts)... it's not your job to do that. However bosses usually know more personal details about employee absences, for example maybe her kids are sick, or something she's keeping to herself.
In light of the fact that the boss called you, I think it's reasonable that he asked you to apologize to her in person. That should be the end of it - really. Hopefully everyone learned something. I'm assuming you want to keep this job and stay on your boss's good side. Best of luck!
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I got sick today after lunch and had to go home. I'm still feeling pretty ill over the whole thing. I will apologize tomorrow. Thanks!
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,498 posts)There's an old adage that says when we openly criticize another human being, we're simply trying to elevate ourselves above them and make our self look a tiny bit better - which is egotistical and selfish.
I've also used the trick of asking myself "is this really my job?" Usually, the answer is NO and at work it's typically only the job of the HR Dept.
Keeps us out of trouble and we get to keep all our teeth.......
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I was just kind of angry at how so many people were bending over backward to help her and her not showing up just seemed to be disrespectful and rude given her situation. I should have just kept it to myself. The problem is, the HR dept. for our group is offsite, so nobody is really watching.
However, they are on to her. I have seen some emails going back and forth (I was cc'd on them) and nothing I said was untrue. The only problem is that I was careless enough to put her on the email and she found out about it. Fortunately, I wasn't very specific.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)to you? Is he or she facing repercussions as well?
I remember this happening at a place I worked years ago. Almost exactly the same type thing involving emails. In that case, two employees got in trouble for it. I dont think they were fired right away, but they were gone not too long after.
The worst thing was the company put out a memo about email usage right after the snafu. They did not name names, but word soon got around. It might not hurt for you to contact HR yourself. At any rate, good luck. It certainly is not the first time it has happened and not the last either.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)proverbial s**t hit the fan, which is good for him. We talked on the phone later and he re-assured me that I was not a bad person, and said nothing that was untrue or inflammatory, but the fact that she saw the email was a problem.
I did contact both my boss and the HR person and apologized immediately and attached my email apologizing to her. I told them it would not happen again. I think they know that it was out of character for me and that I was not trying to be malicious.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Please let us know how it all works out.
I would think your apology is all that is needed. Hang in there!
in2herbs
(2,947 posts)the defendants who was scheduled to appear in court was due in court on pedophile charges. He was a repeat offender. While not to the public, all the clerks were sharing their opinions of this guy except for one clerk. Turns out this pedophile was the sister of one of the clerks. Didn't realize it cuz the last name was different. Don't know if you can ever make something right out of this kind of wrong but, IMO, the effort to make it right needs to be made and it sounds like you did that.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I hope it all worked out ok today.
flying_wahini
(6,679 posts)she Put it in her own employee record for everyone to see. Its off your plate.
Dont kick yourself over it. All HR has to do is check her attendance records.
My bet is that she is going to leave quickly.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I have seen emails discussing her unfitness for her job, so what I said was not untrue. Still doesn't make what I did right and I should really keep my mouth shut in the future, but she has been in the dog house for a while starting back from her previous position at the company.
I was going to apologize today, but got sick again after lunch and had to go home. It is still upsetting me very much.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Hey, its the weekend now!
sir pball
(4,766 posts)I don't disagree that you really didn't mean anything overly nasty, but she found out about it and got HR involved. At that point, as a manager with lots of dealings with HR (in a restaurant, there's always some kind of HR issue going on), my professional advice is to apologize endlessly, grovel if need be. Accept all blame thrown at you, even if it isn't true nor right. If you do that you can probably get off with a stern tonguelashing and no Permanent Record...while I understand the need for HR, they're for the most part unpleasant people more interested in protecting the company rather than the individual. It sucks, but it Is What It Is...I've had to do it a couple of times and my HR manager is actually a really cool lady. If I had a nickel for every time she's sighed and said "Pball...I mean, you were right but you just can't DO that!" I'd have fifteen cents.