Have you ever helped a hoarder move?

[Phentex]

My hoarder friend is moving. She has known for a few years that she would have to move this year but has put off most things (pretty normal). I tried to get her to seek counseling more than 8 years ago but she never did. So here we are.

She has rented four storage units and has filled three of them. The bigger items are still in the house; all of her parents furniture, plus her furniture. I have talked to her about getting her children to decide what they might want in the future. I have urged her not to burden them with making these decisions later. We aren't spring chickens. I am trying to do the same at my house but I have one junk room, not a whole house. I have talked to her about how much better it feels to donate things that aren't being used so she can help others who have nothing. I helped her with a garage sale a long time ago and she would barely sell anything even though she had dozens of the same items.

I am trying to be gentle because this is a serious issue.

She wants me to help her pack and I want to help her (kinda worried about mice, dog feces). She mentioned the word accountability which scared me a little.

Any advice?

[Dream Girl]

1. I don't have any advice, but bless you. You sound like a good friend.

[Phentex]

13. I don't feel like one...

but I am trying.

[Ziggysmom]

2. The International OCD Foundation has a video that may help.

They also have information on their site.

https://hoarding.iocdf.org/

[Phentex]

14. Thank you!

I will watch the whole thing later. I've been doing more googling about moving and hoarders.

[Cousin Dupree]

3. I'm sorry. I have to tell you that you are headed for a world of frustration.

And you will change nothing. Save yourself. Offer to help her find a company that will pack her up. Offer to take things for donation. Be kind and helpful up to a point. If you get into the deep weeds with your friend, you will ultimately be sorry.

[Phentex]

15. I found a local thrift...

that supports children with special needs families and that got her attention. I know I can't change her but maybe I can keep some of her stuff from going with her!

[Lettuce Be]

4. Fake sprain an ankle?

Regular moves are a nightmare. Can't even begin to imagine how you'd move a hoarder's belongings and how exactly do they put them in the new place? Just toss in and see where it lands? This would be one time a little white lie would be my go to, but that's just me and I have a warped sense of loyalty when it comes to moving others.

[Phentex]

16. I have had bad thoughts...

I won't lie to her but I have avoided this as much as I can. I almost posted here a week ago telling you all how bad I am for not wanting to help her. But now I feel like I have to do something even minimal. I honestly do care for her as a friend. She's a good liberal and a good person. She knows she has a problem.

[mucifer]

5. I had a friend who was kicked out of his apartment for hoarding and there were bedbugs

I told him he had to spend thousands of dollars to have it professionally taken care of or he would be in trouble. There was no way I would help him move.

Luckily, he had the money to do it and his place was fairly small so it worked out.

He definitely has gotten MUCH better about keeping clean since.

[Phentex]

17. I think she's been in this house more than 20 years...

it's not a huge place but it's full.

[Earth-shine]

6. If you want to keep your friends, do not ask them to help you move.

I learned that a long time ago.

Unrelated, there's a concept known as the cost to carry.

Everything you own costs you something, if only for the space it takes up, as well as the cost to move it there.

My computer and accessories take up a lot of space, but they are so useful, I easily pay the rent for the space and the electricity they consume.

In the case of renting storage units to hold onto things that one will never use, it's literally money thrown away. The cost to carry is easily calculated here.

There's also depreciation. The longer you have it, the more aged it is, the less value it has.

A basic Buddhist principle is that happiness is not found in things you can touch. Rather, things that can be touched and owned will make you miserable in the end (even that computer).

I used to be an accumulator. These concepts remind me to get rid of things. It feels good to be unburdened!

[Phentex]

19. I really need to share the cost to carry concept...

the storage situation horrified me and she knows how expensive that is but it's temporary. (Back of my mind, is it?)

I told her we needed to Marie Kondo as much as we can. Thank it for giving her joy in whatever purpose it had and then donate to someone else who really needed it. I already talked to her about releasing the burden of so much stuff.

[smirkymonkey]

36. +1000

Absolutely. I will not ask anyone to help me and I will not help anyone else to move either. I HATE moving and it is one thing I will not agree to help someone with.

[LizBeth]

7. Our kids will mostly not want it. I had to empty parents house and mostly just carried it with me

because of a sense of doing wrong getting rid of it. I made a move 4 yrs ago and packed the smallest uhaul and had goodwill pick up massive amounts of antiques, furnisher, crystal, china and the likes. I feel free having got rid of so much. I moved to my condo 2 years ago and did another cleaning of stuff. And I am due one more since I have gotten so good. I will never accumulate shit again. I feel light having so little. The flow of room and space feels incredibly good.

I had a neighbor that hoards come into my condo after updating paint, floor and kitchen. She sat in space of little stuff and felt so good. For 4 months she has been cleaning out her space. I feel good for her because I know she is going to so love it.

[Phentex]

20. That's what I want her to find...

the joy of being free. Most of us feel it when we retire and downsize (which will be coming up anyway if we all live long enough). I have rarely heard anyone say the opposite. It's a clean slate so to speak.

[LizBeth]

21. +1

[LisaL]

26. You want the impossible.

Hoarding is a form of mental illness. She won't find joy in being free.

[LisaL]

8. It sounds like a lot of work.

Did she really tell you that you will be accountable for helping her move?
As for her getting rid of stuff, a lot of hoarders can't-it's a mental health condition. They are very attached to their items and won't get rid of them even if those items are useless.
But that is not really your problem is it? Why don't her children help her with packing?

[Phentex]

22. It sneaked in...

first she'd say just come over and keep me company. Next time it was you can just watch me pack. Next it was I need you to keep me on track and keep me accountable and not distracted.

Like I would sit there and watch her? That's weird.

No, this is not my problem and I've kicked it along as much as I can. But she is my friend and I may find one day to try to help. Just wanted advice to see if anyone has done this before and what they did.

[Corgigal]

9. My father in law

passed away in his sleep. I then tried to clean up the hoarder house for his wife. Cleaned up the kitchen for a full day, and didn’t get it a,k done.

Got home and was sick. Please be careful, the “things” your will be stirring up that will enter the air is dangerous and disgusting. I would never do it again. I’m sure you will but use the best mask you have and wear gloves.

[Phentex]

23. okay now...

Valid point.

[Hotler]

10. Yep, I volunteered and didn't know it was a hoarder. That was the last time I hepled anyone move

other than my parents. I don't even loan my truck.

[Phentex]

29. I'm trying to imagine what the place looks like

now that three storage units are full.

[enough]

11. She's asking you to help her undo something she spent a whole lifetime creating.

This will become a huge undertaking for you. Don’t get involved unless you’re willing to take that on.

What in the world does she mean by “accountability?”

[Phentex]

24. see above

it slipped in when she was asking me to come over again.

[Doodley]

12. Be honest with her. Tell her how you feel physically and emotionally for being accountable for

such a daunting task. It's too much for you. The problem is greater than just packing. Maybe they don't want to be involved, but she needs to try to involve her children. You can help her figure out how to do that, if it is possible, how to involve a packing company, or how to make decisions on what to keep and what to sell or give away.

[Phentex]

25. You are right...

I'm doing the angel devil thing. She IS the kind of friend I think I could be honest with. But then part of me says help her for a few hours one day and be done with it.

[cbabe]

18. Three times.

Firm rules:
If you haven't used it in a year, it goes.

The time for sorting is over. This is moving time.

I can give you two hours. Then I'm done.

Once it's gone (recycle. donate. trash), it's gone. No asking for it.

Send homeowner out on errands. No asking questions or interfering. 'You asked for me. Now, go away and let me work.'

Cleaning one kitchen took over eight hours. Years out of date food. Bugs. Told them I was happy to return when the bugs were gone. Never heard from them again.

[Phentex]

27. ouch...

It's been a while but I helped her clean once when her kid was having a sleepover. The kitchen wasn't horrible but we did surface stuff like counters and floors and not really a deep clean. For the other rooms, it was more like clearing space. I felt like we were just moving piles to other places though we did get rid of some stuff. I know this is a very serious mental health issue.

[in2herbs]

28. I can't understand people that pay rental on a storage unit for items they haven't seen or used for

a long time, maybe years. I am currently purging my (large) house with the intent of reducing my footprint within the house. Thus far I have filled three 40-yard dumpsters, most of it consisting of husband's stuff as he recently passed. As I am doing this I ask myself this question: is it an item I have used in the past year? Does the item belong to me and not my deceased spouse? Also, you might try to convince your friend that purging items is akin to stepping into the 21 Century. For example, cook books are no longer necessary with access to computers, tax records don't need to be kept for more than 3 years (if that). If you have your taxes prepared by a CPA they keep a data base for years. Purging of these kinds of docs will clean out a lot. My husband had a workshop with tools and equipment valued at $20,000+. I looked around and found an all girls trade school that I was able to donate his workshop tools to. I guess the point is while trying to get her to purge her inventory try to make her feel good about herself because of her donating items to someone or some organization. I have learned one thing: what you see is being hoarded is only the surface of what is actually being hoarded.

Are people hoarders because they are depressed or are they depressed because they are hoarders?

[Phentex]

30. I feel like her parents may have been hoarders...

she told me they went to flea markets and garage sales for fun. They have passed and her siblings also took stuff but she is still very sentimental about some of their things. That's why I was trying to get her to see if the kids wanted anything cause face it, they may think it's junk.

[in2herbs]

31. If you give away clothes or furniture make sure you check the pockets and drawers. My H had a very

nice roll top desk but one of the drawers was locked. I tried to open it with the key but couldn't and was going to donate it without opening the drawer. A friend came over and opened the drawer -- inside was almost $9,000 in savings bonds. True story.

[cbabe]

32. I think it's

nest building for comfort and safety. Like wrapping up in a warm soft blankie when not feeling well. Only it gets way out of hand like most addictions and becomes piles and piles of stifling stuff.

[MissB]

33. No I haven't

My mother is a hoarder.

We won’t be moving her anywhere until she dies and then we will pay for dumpsters and dump pretty much everything.

None of us kids has the energy to actually sort through any of it. Every room is a hoard. None of the bedrooms are usable.

She’s also anti vax.

[hunter]

34. It took the police and paramedics many hours to drag my hoarder grandma out of her home.

She'd been declared a danger to herself and others.

Some of her neighbors adored her, others were scared of her.

Once she'd been removed from her home all her stuff had to be sorted. There was no way of knowing if a Styrofoam Big Mac box (there were hundreds of them...) would contain a half eaten mummified Big Mac, jewelry, ammunition, or ninety dollars and some change. There was money hidden in books as well.

People kindly attributed my grandma's hoarding to surviving the Great Depression and the recycling drives of World War II but it was 100% a symptom of her OCD.

A nearly insane attention to detail had served her well in her professional life but her personal life was always a catastrophe. She did not cope well with retirement even though she owned her house outright, had plenty of money in the bank, was a beneficiary of California's Proposition 13, and had a comfortable pension.

No assisted living place would keep her for long. If she wasn't being a Holy Terror she was collecting stuff, everything from plastic cutlery to pine cones.

Without money my grandma would have been a bag lady pushing around a huge shopping cart full of treasures she'd found.

You can't fix that.

[mnhtnbb]

35. I want to reinforce the danger of disease from helping this woman.

There was a hoarder on the floor of my downtown high rise apartment building where I used to live. He used to prop his hallway door open occasionally and the first time I passed by when taking my dog out to walk I couldn't believe the smell. That comes from decay. It was gross. I told management but they continued to let him live there.

When I'd pass by the open door I could see bags and bags and bags loaded with who knows what sitting on the floor, the kitchen counter, everywhere.

Be careful about going into that house.

[3catwoman3]

37. My close friend of my late mother was a hoarder. She died in Feb 2019, after several years...

...in assisted living and finally nursing home care. Her husband died a few years before she did. The house they owned has sat unoccupied for at least 10 years, full of stuff of every description.

Her daughter is also a hoarder, and is insisting on looking thru EVERYTHING in the house. Hasn't done it yet. Her son cleaned out the garage, and said that the rest was up to his sister. He found bags of dryer lint in the garage that his mom was saving to give to birds for building their nests. He tried getting rid of things in the house, and his sister would go thru the garbage and take things back out and yell at him for getting rid of things without clearing it with her first.

According to my mom, the basement is filled with boxes upon boxes, stacked high and so numerous that there are just narrow paths between the stacks of boxes.

When this woman's mother died, my mom's friend could not even bring herself to part with her mother's underwear, and explained her hesitancy to give it away by saying that she needed to be sure it would go to someone who would appreciate it.

When the father, who was also in long-term care, died, the daughter hung around in his room for well over an hour, taking pictures of her father's body.

I am friends with the son (we grew up together) and cordial to the daughter, who is 5 years younger than I am. I live several states away. The siblings are seriously estranged, for a variety of reasons, and the son finally got his sister to buy out his share of the house and wants nothing more to do with it or his sister.

I doubt she will ever get it cleaned out enough to put it up for sale. The best thing that could happen would be for lightning to strike it and have it burn to the ground.

[Phentex]

39. I can't say I haven't thought that same thing...

but worried about her animals. And I know fires are awful and you can't really hope it happens. But I was thinking more along the lines of then the stuff would be gone. I know she would accumulate more but it wouldn't be her parents stuff.

[sarge43]

38. Do not get involved.

You'll only become frustrated, angry and resentful for doing her work for free.

For the sake of your mental health you must tell her that you won't help unless she reduces that mess to a reasonable size. Otherwise, you'll be enabling her to continue to hoard and I know you don't want to do that.

Yes, that could be the end of your friendship. However, getting involved probably will ended it.