Electrical question.

[blogslut]

blogslut jr has a kitchen with two-hole wall outlets.

Is it safe for her to plug a microwave oven with a three-hole plug into a two-hole outlet using an adapter?

[Kali]

1. it MAY be ok if the adapter is one that you screw to the center screw on the face plate

but watch the breakers and the plug for heat - may not be wired for that kind of wattage/voltage or whatever (and don't trust me, I am an idiot when it comes to electricity)

whatever she does, do NOT remove the ground (third prong) from the appliance's plug.

[blogslut]

3. Thanks.

When I get over there, I'll screw the adapter grounding adapter hole thingy to the faceplate.

[BlueJazz]

2. My answers >

1. She really should have somebody change the outlet to a grounded plug.
2. If she insists on using the microwave, wear rubber gloves.
The "Ground" wire is (of course) attached to Ground..The actual ground...like dirt outside.
IF the hotlwire/hot circuit was to touch the outside frame of the microwave and she touched the frame while being grounded..the result would be shocking...she would complete the circuit.

[blogslut]

4. I'll tell her about the rubber gloves.

For now, I told her not to touch the microwave while it's running and to unplug it when it's not in use.

Sadly, I doubt her apt. manager will change the outlet to three-hole but I'll check into it.

[Wounded Bear]

5. Also...

if the plug is within 3-6 feet of a water source-such as a sink-it should be a GFCI protected plug. The actual distance probably varies from county to county, but it's a good safety feature to have. You can tell a GFCI plug because it will have buttons in the center for testing and resetting the ground circuit.

[blogslut]

6. Aha!

Groovy! There's a Home Depot right across the street from her. I'll tell her to get one of those toot-suite!

[Callmecrazy]

9. 2-4 feet actually. Per National Electrical Code. nt

[Wounded Bear]

20. Thanks, I wasn't sure...

Local codes could still disagree somewhat, but it's a good feature. Just having an ungrounded outlet anywhere can be kind of dangerous. I don't think they even sell them any more, do they?

[Callmecrazy]

24. No, not if it is UL listed.

Article 250 of the NEC is the largest section in the code book. All it covers is grounding. If a system isn't grounded, it's deadly. When I build electrical systems, they are grounded everywhere with multiple redundancies.
I was so furious when I heard that some of our troops died from electrocution in Iraq. They died because the Contractors cut some corners during construction and probably pocketed the money. Had they done something like that here at home they would be imprisoned.
One rule I always follow is: When in doubt, ground it out.

[Wounded Bear]

27. I worked in electronics for 30 years...

I don't know building codes or UL as well as a true electrician, but I understand safety. You get that when you work around kilovolt systems. The radar I worked on had many ways to knock you down and out.

[Jenoch]

7. I had this same problem

years ago in an old house I was renting. I bought a grounded electrical outle and ran a wire inside the wall. I punched a hole in the wall underneath the kitchen sink and ran the wire over to a copper pipe to complete the ground.

[blogslut]

11. Oh, we won't be able to do that.

But thanks!

[Callmecrazy]

8. Hold on...

All outlets in the kitchen are protected by GFCI. Press the test button on the GFCI outlet(s) in the kitchen and it should kill the power in a non-GFCI outlet in the kitchen as well. The GFCI outlet is the first outlet on that circuit breaker and controls up to four outlets downstream of it. If there is no GFCI outlet in that kitchen, get the landlord to bring it up to (national) code. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen. If the cord is undamaged on the microwave, there shouldn't be any risk of electric shock. Forget the rubber gloves.

I'm a journeyman electrician with 20 years of experience. I know what I'm talking about.

[blogslut]

10. I'll take a t look at her breakerbox when I get the chance.

Thanks.

[Callmecrazy]

12. The circuits in the kitchen...

may be listed as small appliance circuits and should be 20 amp breakers or fuses and there should be only 4 outlets on each small appliance circuit.

ETA: but you don't really need to get into the breaker panel if you have a GFCI outlet. Hit the test button on the outlet and it should kill the outlets downstream of it. If there are no GFCI outlets in the house, you need to get on the landlords ass about it. This code has been around for over 20 years and you really should have them for your protection.

[blogslut]

13. understood

Once again, thank you.

[Callmecrazy]

14. You are most welcome.

Hit me up if you have any more questions. I'm glad to help.
Oh, and check my edit to my previous post.

[edgineered]

15. Could you elaborate more

on how the advent of the UL certification and polarized outlets put an end to using the chassis as a ground. Upthread there was a mention of it, some do live in old houses and have old gear - MOST don't have this to worry about.

[Callmecrazy]

16. Polarized outlets are for polarized cord plugs...

to insure that the hot wire is fed into the device properly. Many electronic devices have polarized plugs so that you don't feed the device backwards and damage the circuitry. The neutral tang on a polarized plug is larger than the hot tang so it only goes in the plug one way. The neutral tang won't fit into the hot side of the outlet and back-feed the device.
UL (Underwriters Laboratories) is the agency founded by an electrical engineer to insure that the materials and devices that you install during construction as well as end-user products meets minimum safety standards for personal safety and fire protection.

You can still use the metal box to ground you outlet if there isn't a green or bare ground wire in the box in the wall. Newer construction includes at least one ground wire- sometimes two for isolated ground systems. I'm sure you don't have an IG and that's okay.

[edgineered]

17. Thank you professor -

Between knowing this, and not to put pennies into light sockets, I will sleep soundly tonight.

[Callmecrazy]

18. Anytime.

[Paulie]

19. OP said two hole non ground plugs. They even make a GFCI with no ground hole?

Might be old cloth wrapped wiring behind the plate. Eek.

[Callmecrazy]

21. No. GFCI's have ground tangs.

The plugs down stream of the GFCI should be replaced with grounded outlets as well to accommodate three prong plugs, but by using the adapter they spoke of upthread there will be a viable ground if it is attached to the screw. The screw attaches to the outlet frame which attaches to the box in the wall which is grounded.

[Kali]

23. hey they worked fine for 80 years!

[Kali]

22. you are assuming house is up to code

hell, we upgraded in the early 90s but still no gfci's in the kitchen. glad to have dedicated circuits for the fridge and microwave, though. LOL

there were some outlets left "as is" in the living room (due to Grampa and his gun - yes, I am serious) and one was a single paper-wrapped line that finally went out or rather, caused the computer to fail. when I opened the box up to put in a new outlet I discovered THAT.

[Callmecrazy]

25. You might have a Breaker in the panel that has a GFCI test button on it that covers the kitchen.

An ungrounded kitchen outlet is deadly serious. If you don't have a GFCI outlet or breaker for the areas around water, in the basement, the garage or outside, you have a recipe for tragedy. I can't stress the importance of these devices. They detect a fault and react much faster and are more sensitive than a regular fuse or circuit breaker.

[Kali]

26. nope

had one for the pool only and it was put in a few years later.

we need to do some work in this area soon, though. there are not enough outlets in the living room and I would like to add a few more outdoors as well.

hopefully next year. our water situation is even worse LOL, not like there is actually a whole lot of it anyway.

we are ag-exempt for some of the safety rules with the natural gas, maybe that is why the electric didn't get done that way or maybe it was just before the codes changed? come to think about it that was late 80s, not early 90s when we did the electric. (I finally said we have to do something because nail holes in the tin roofing of the garage were glowing!

[Callmecrazy]

29. Holy shit!

[NYC_SKP]

28. Codes for rental vary from place to place, some require GFCI near water.

I have a condo that is currently rented and I had to change out several to GFCI before I could get a permit to rent.

Happily, it's easier to do than it used to be, back in the day when you had to change the breaker.

Now you just need to change the outlet but the wiring must be modern enough that you have three-wire conductors coming into the box.

Older homes, pre WW2, may have only two conductors and no ground, in which event you can't really install a functioning grounded outlet or a GFCI.

If blogslut jr has an insulated black and insulated white and an insulated green or bare copper conductor coming into the box with these receptacles, then grounded receptacles or GFCIs can be installed.

Turn off the breaker, follow directions on the box, done.

[Callmecrazy]

30. ALL areas around water require GFCI.

That's written in the National Electrical Code. The NEC establishes the minimum requirements for all electrical installations in the U.S.. Local codes may require more stringent installations but they cannot ignore the NEC.
You do not require a ground wire to install GFCI.
A GFCI can be installed if the wall box is metal. Just attach a ground wire to the box and to the device and you have a viable ground.
Trust me, I do this for a living.