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NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
1. We should have based more of our architecture on the Egyptians.
Sun May 17, 2015, 10:21 PM
May 2015

I blame this all on the burning of the Great Library at Alexandria and all of the knowledge lost in that tragic conflagration.

Glad they rebuilt it.

FINALLY!

UTUSN

(70,691 posts)
2. Did you see today's History (non-HITLER) Channel, "Ancient Impossibles"?
Sun May 17, 2015, 10:28 PM
May 2015

My gawd, I'm flabbergasted more and more over the Romans. It's always cute that they were afraid of the ocean (yet) ...

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
3. Missed it, but will look for that.
Sun May 17, 2015, 10:42 PM
May 2015

They had hydraulic cement, you know. And that was lost to history and gone for centuries.

Two different people are said to have rediscovered it. I go with John Smeaton, famous for his Eddystone Lighthouse which used dovetailed stones and hydraulic cement, redinvented by Smeaton.



In my first year in architecture school I built a model of this lighthouse, still have it though it needs some repair.

In my fifth year I chose as a thesis project a weather station design, similar in the sense that it has to endure bad weather.

Fun stuff!

trof

(54,256 posts)
17. My father was the keeper of the Eddystone light.
Wed May 20, 2015, 08:19 PM
May 2015

(You knew this was coming, right?
trof)

And he slept with a mermaid one fine night
From this union there came three
A porpoise and a porgy and the other was me

Yo ho ho
The wind blows free
Oh for the life on the rolling sea

One day as I was a-trimmin' the glim
Humming a tune from the evening hymn
A voice from the starboard shouted, "Ahoy"
And there was me mother a-sittin' on the buoy

Yo ho ho
The wind blows free
Oh for the life on the rolling sea

Oh what has become of me children three?
Me mother then she asked of me
One was exhibited as a talking fish
The other was served in a chafing dish

Yo ho ho
The wind blows free
Oh for the life on the rolling sea

Then the phosphorus flashed in her seaweed hair
I looked again, but me mother wasn't there
But I heard her voice echoing back through the night
The devil take the keeper of the eddystone light

Yo ho ho
The wind blows free
Oh for the life on the rolling sea

Oh, the moral of the story you'll learn when you find
To leave God's creatures for what nature had in mind
For fishes are for cookin', mermaids are for tales
Seaweed is for sushi and protecting is for whales

Yo ho ho
The wind blows free
Oh for the life on the rolling sea

aint_no_life_nowhere

(21,925 posts)
9. I saw some of it
Mon May 18, 2015, 02:09 AM
May 2015

They were discussing the ability of the Egyptians to cut solid granite stones which they said requires diamond tipped saw blades. Apparently they had gigantic rotating saws and must have used diamond blades back in 2000 B.C. whereas it was previously thought the Egyptians didn't know diamonds. A commentator suggested they might find microscopic diamond dust if they sifted the sand around those gigantic rotating saw pits.

struggle4progress

(118,282 posts)
16. It's possible to cut granite using a copper blade to move sand back and forth across the stone:
Wed May 20, 2015, 08:11 PM
May 2015

the quartz crystals in the sand have moh hardness 7, compared to the moh hardness 2.8 of the mica and moh hardness 6 of the feldspar in the granite, so such abrasion will erode the mica and feldspar in the stone, and may then mechanically dislodge quartz crystals from the matrix. Modern carving of granite by sandblasting works for the same reason; nothing as hard as diamond is needed

UTUSN

(70,691 posts)
7. From Wiki (that wingut source, could snip on and on)
Sun May 17, 2015, 10:59 PM
May 2015

*********UNQUOTE*******

As second in command, Guevara was a harsh disciplinarian who sometimes shot defectors. Deserters were punished as traitors, and Guevara was known to send squads to track those seeking to go AWOL.[70] As a result, Guevara became feared for his brutality and ruthlessness.[71] During the guerrilla campaign, Guevara was also responsible for the sometimes summary execution of a number of men accused of being informers, deserters or spies.[72] In his diaries, Guevara described the first such execution of Eutimio Guerra, a peasant army guide who admitted treason when it was discovered he accepted the promise of ten thousand pesos for repeatedly giving away the rebel's position for attack by the Cuban air force.[73] Such information also allowed Batista's army to burn the homes of rebel-friendly peasants.[73] Upon Guerra's request that they "end his life quickly",[73] Che stepped forward and shot him in the head, writing "The situation was uncomfortable for the people and for Eutimio so I ended the problem giving him a shot with a .32 pistol in the right side of the brain, with exit orifice in the right temporal [lobe]."[74] His scientific notations and matter-of-fact description, suggested to one biographer a "remarkable detachment to violence" by that point in the war.[74] Later, Guevara published a literary account of the incident, titled "Death of a Traitor", where he transfigured Eutimio's betrayal and pre-execution request that the revolution "take care of his children", into a "revolutionary parable about redemption through sacrifice".[74]

********UNQUOTE********

a la izquierda

(11,794 posts)
8. Che was an exceptionally complicated figure...
Sun May 17, 2015, 11:38 PM
May 2015

who eventually behaved like those he loathed. His violence was wrong and misguided. Supporters of the US government, however, have little room to cast stones.

However, he has inspired millions of poor people to stand up against corrupt, oppressive regimes, the bulk of which still keep them ridden with poverty in Latin America (from where I type this message).
I'll stand with them.

LibertyLover

(4,788 posts)
10. As someone with a degree in Ancient Near Eastern History and Culture
Mon May 18, 2015, 09:24 AM
May 2015

with a specialization in Egypt, I have to ask why? The Egyptian civilization is amazingly diverse and the history fascinating.

UTUSN

(70,691 posts)
11. Oh, I'm fascinated, love the video documentaries about the amazing accomplishments
Mon May 18, 2015, 07:36 PM
May 2015

I still remember my heyday in the '70s touchy-feeling years when professors were telling us that the future was in interactional esteem activities "not in THE PYRAMIDS," and today we are more amazed by the ancient Egyptians than ever.

But to answer for my off the cuff remark, fear is based in ignorance, no? I don't know enough to penetrate the mystery and the impression of absolute power, find the latter especially intimidating.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
12. Why, if I may ask?
Mon May 18, 2015, 07:37 PM
May 2015

Ancient Egyptian civilization has fascinated me since I was a wee lad. Fascinating stuff.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
13. Just reading the history of mathematicians
Tue May 19, 2015, 01:33 AM
May 2015

It became apparent that civililization was advancing as mathematics was as well. Babylonians began with addition and subtraction to algebra. Greeks came in with advancements in geomtry and astronomy. The discovered irrational numbers but didn't like as they weren't helpful in their areas. The concept of "negative numbers" was something considered controversial at the time. Islamic civilization improved on irrational numbers as they were good with decimal numbers, also trigonementry and advancing on Greek geometry discoveries. This later part was part of the "Golden Age of Islam"

Experimental medicine

Avicenna (Ibn Sina) is considered the father of modern medicine, for his introduction of experimental medicine and clinical trials, the experimental use and testing of drugs, and a precise guide for practical experimentation in the process of discovering and proving the effectiveness of medical substances, in his medical encyclopedia, The Canon of Medicine (11th century), which was the first book dealing with experimental medicine. It laid out the following rules and principles for testing the effectiveness of new drugs or medications, which still form the basis of modern clinical trials:

"The drug must be free from any extraneous accidental quality."
"It must be used on a simple, not a composite, disease."
"The drug must be tested with two contrary types of diseases, because sometimes a drug cures one disease by Its essential qualities and another by its accidental ones."
"The quality of the drug must correspond to the strength of the disease. For example, there are some drugs whose heat is less than the coldness of certain diseases, so that they would have no effect on them."
"The time of action must be observed, so that essence and accident are not confused."
"The effect of the drug must be seen to occur constantly or in many cases, for if this did not happen, it was an accidental effect."
"The experimentation must be done with the human body, for testing a drug on a lion or a horse might not prove anything about its effect on man."

Peer review

The first documented description of a peer review process is found in the Ethics of the Physician written by Ishaq bin Ali al-Rahwi (854–931) of al-Raha, Syria, who describes the first medical peer review process. His work, as well as later Arabic medical manuals, state that a visiting physician must always make duplicate notes of a patient's condition on every visit. When the patient was cured or had died, the notes of the physician were examined by a local medical council of other physicians, who would review the practising physician's notes to decide whether his/her performance have met the required standards of medical care. If their reviews were negative, the practicing physician could face a lawsuit from a maltreated patient.

This is just on the Philosophy front. Greeks get a well deserved focus but what was left out was the civilization advancing right there with them.

On the subject of Socrates I highly recommend his statements to the jury where he was executed for "corrupting young minds if you can believe it".
http://rocket.csusb.edu/~tmoody/Death%20of%20Socrates.html

This is a from Plato who wrote the book on Socrates -- the truth they spoke as incredible "the difficulty is not so much to escape death; the real difficulty is to escape from doing wrong,

On edit -- this is probably better for an overview but it is the mathematics, science, & philosophy stuff I had in mind when I made my statements -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

In addition to clinical trials there is this
Healthcare

Hospitals in this era were the first to require medical diplomas to license doctors. In the medieval Islamic world, hospitals were built in most major cities.

Medical facilities traditionally closed each night, but by the 10th century laws were passed to keep hospitals open 24 hours a day, and hospitals were forbidden to turn away patients who were unable to pay. Eventually, charitable foundations called waqfs were formed to support hospitals, as well as schools. This money supported free medical care for all citizens. In a notable example, a 13th-century governor of Egypt Al Mansur Qalawun ordained a foundation for the Qalawun hospital that would contain a mosque and a chapel, separate wards for different diseases, a library for doctors and a pharmacy. The Qalawun hospital was based in a former Fatimid palace which had accommodation for 8,000 people - "it served 4,000 patients daily." The waqf stated,

"...The hospital shall keep all patients, men and women, until they are completely recovered. All costs are to be borne by the hospital whether the people come from afar or near, whether they are residents or foreigners, strong or weak, low or high, rich or poor, employed or unemployed, blind or sighted, physically or mentally ill, learned or illiterate. There are no conditions of consideration and payment, none is objected to or even indirectly hinted at for non-payment."

The first institutions for the care of mentally ill people were also established.q

The History of Mathematics in a way that wasn't deliberate, the parallels were clear. Famous philosophers such as Socrates were mathematician. Leonardo Da Vinci -- mathematician which his Treatise On Painting is filled entirely with math. Philosphy was the most fascinating. The concepts used in math were behind on a lot of philosophy Socrates "The key to understanding mathematics is necessary for a sound grasp of ethics"

Philosophy of education

In the medieval Islamic world, an elementary school was known as a maktab, which dates back to at least the 10th century. Like madrasahs (which referred to higher education), a maktab was often attached to a mosque. In the 11th century, Ibn Sina (known as Avicenna in the West), in one of his books, wrote a chapter dealing with the maktab entitled "The Role of the Teacher in the Training and Upbringing of Children", as a guide to teachers working at maktab schools. He wrote that children can learn better if taught in classes instead of individual tuition from private tutors, and he gave a number of reasons for why this is the case, citing the value of competition and emulation among pupils as well as the usefulness of group discussions and debates. Ibn Sina described the curriculum of a maktab school in some detail, describing the curricula for two stages of education in a maktab school.[57]
Primary education

Ibn Sina wrote that children should be sent to a maktab school from the age of 6 and be taught primary education until they reach the age of 14. During which time, he wrote that they should be taught the Qur'an, Islamic metaphysics, language, literature, Islamic ethics, and manual skills (which could refer to a variety of practical skills).[57]
Secondary education

Ibn Sina refers to the secondary education stage of maktab schooling as the period of specialization, when pupils should begin to acquire manual skills, regardless of their social status. He writes that children after the age of 14 should be given a choice to choose and specialize in subjects they have an interest in, whether it was reading, manual skills, literature, preaching, medicine, geometry, trade and commerce, craftsmanship, or any other subject or profession they would be interested in pursuing for a future career. He wrote that this was a transitional stage and that there needs to be flexibility regarding the age in which pupils graduate, as the student's emotional development and chosen subjects need to be taken into account.[58]
Philosophy of science
See also: Islamic science
Scientific method

The pioneering development of the scientific method by the Arab Ash'ari polymath Ibn al-Haytham (Alhacen) was an important contribution to the philosophy of science. In the Book of Optics (c. 1025 AD), his scientific method was very similar to the modern scientific method and consisted of the following procedures:[35]

Observation
Statement of problem
Formulation of hypothesis
Testing of hypothesis using experimentation
Analysis of experimental results
Interpretation of data and formulation of conclusion
Publication of findings

In The Model of the Motions, Ibn al-Haytham also describes an early version of Occam's razor, where he employs only minimal hypotheses regarding the properties that characterize astronomical motions, as he attempts to eliminate from his planetary model the cosmological hypotheses that cannot be observed from Earth.[59]

In Aporias against Ptolemy, Ibn al-Haytham commented on the difficulty of attaining scientific knowledge:

"Truth is sought for itself [but] the truths, [he warns] are immersed in uncertainties [and the scientific authorities (such as Ptolemy, whom he greatly respected) are] not immune from error..."[36]

He held that the criticism of existing theories — which dominated this book — holds a special place in the growth of scientific knowledge:

"Therefore, the seeker after the truth is not one who studies the writings of the ancients and, following his natural disposition, puts his trust in them, but rather the one who suspects his faith in them and questions what he gathers from them, the one who submits to argument and demonstration, and not to the sayings of a human being whose nature is fraught with all kinds of imperfection and deficiency. Thus the duty of the man who investigates the writings of scientists, if learning the truth is his goal, is to make himself an enemy of all that he reads, and, applying his mind to the core and margins of its content, attack it from every side. He should also suspect himself as he performs his critical examination of it, so that he may avoid falling into either prejudice or leniency."[36]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_philosophy#Aristotelian_logic

I have strong appreciation for Greek & Islamic pioneers. Don't know much about the Roman Empire & not familiar with the Egyptians in all this -- the History of Mathematics touched on a wide variety of notable figures and movements. He began with the number counting system from Babylonians.

CrawlingChaos

(1,893 posts)
14. Something I once read that interested me
Tue May 19, 2015, 03:20 AM
May 2015

A theory that most people lean distinctly toward either the ancient Greeks or the ancient Egyptians in their sensibilities.

For instance, the sky - a person with Greek sensibilities will seek out dwellings that bring the sky right down into the room; they want to touch infinity. Whereas to an Egyptian type, the sky is threatening - a menacing void to be sheltered from.

Me, I lean Egyptian (although it could be I read too much cosmic horror).

DFW

(54,378 posts)
15. There were Greeks and then there were Greeks
Tue May 19, 2015, 07:02 AM
May 2015

Athens was like Cambridge, Massachusetts for a while.

Sparta was like the Citadel.

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