I am so sad right now and don't know what to do.

[wilsonbooks]

My daughter is a Senior this year and has attended a very good private school (on scholarship) since she was in the fourth grade. She has always excelled and has taken the hardest courses available. Nine AP classes over the last two years. She is a wonderful young lady and I am so very proud of her. She applied to 10 schools that offer complete scholarships and to our State University. She was wait listed to four of them and granted admission to the honors College at the state University. The state University will only cover half of her costs Which means that if she goes there she will graduate with a 50,000 dollar debt.

The problem is that some of her fellow students were admitted to the same schools that she applied to. Several of them had lower academic achievements, but their parents could afford the tuition, which we can't. Admission to these colleges is supposed to be blind to your financial situation but obviously they are not.

Life is not fair but it is heartbreaking for me to see my daughter have to learn this lesson at a young age.

I am not asking for any financial help, but if you have any suggestions that would help me ease her pain and disillusion, I would welcome them.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. That is such a hard place to be...

I hope that she can learn that life isn't always fair. She is very young, but maybe with patience and time, she can come to see that.

If you can be calm and matter-of-fact, that will help deliver the message. But that won't make it any easier.

Or perhaps she could go to one of the schools that will offer her the complete scholarship?

I wish I had more concrete suggestions.

[angstlessk]

2. Search for any scholarships for which she is eligible

There are many out there, search them out, and if you can't find one hire a company that does nothing but search for scholarships.

GOOD LUCK!

[Kaleva]

3. I don't know how you or your daughter feels about serving a stint in the military

"The NROTC Four-year Scholarship:

Full tuition at one of the listed college or universities
All colleges/university educational fees
Stipend for text books
Provide all uniforms
Subsistence allowance each academic month:
Freshmen receive $250
Sophomores receive $300
Juniors receive $350
Seniors receive $400"

http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/rotc-scholarships-navy.html

[mackerel]

4. Can she go to the local community college for 2 years and then transfer? That's the way

I did it and I was able to pay my student loan off in 5 years.

[wilsonbooks]

6. That is probably what she will end up doing.

She can attend the local school here and graduate in 2 years without any debt. . She has enough AP credits to start as a Junior.

I just don't know how to ease her pain. She is a tough kid and has never let anything stop her and won't let this either, but I am afraid that this will leave scars.

[mackerel]

13. You have to help change the way she is looking at it.

I received an excellent education and I'm proud that I paid everything on my own. I've met amazing people in my life and had excellent professors. I believe I've had the experiences I've had because of me and not because of my designer jeans.

My son had a similar experience last year. He ended up going to the state university that was the most affordable for us and for him. His friends were all going to more elite schools or farther away. The thing is it didn't totally work out for about half his friends. One friend ended up getting 51/50 at the school he got into. He found that while it was a gorgeous campus and that academically it was going to look very good on his resume, he didn't mix well with the other kids. It was an uber conservative school with a very elitist attitude. He ended up staying at a psyche facility for a month and then back at home. Two other classmates of my sons dropped out of their schools after a month. It just wasn't the right fit for them. He just told me that another of his good friends is seriously considering not returning back to the school he choose after he finishes the year. He says he is very lonely their and that he isn't having good social experiences.

In the end you have to make it work. It's what you bring to it but always you have to be practical.

I have a cousin who went to UC Berkeley for undergrad and then to Boston U for grad school. She now owes $130,000 and she only makes about $70K a year. She is always stressed out about money. What's the point? She could have gone to the local grad school here and cut her student loan debt in half. She realizes that now.

My niece got sports scholarships all through school but it wasn't the school of her choice. Now she's out of school, has a good job in the city and she doesn't owe any student debt.

Your daughter is great kid, she'll be grand where ever she goes.

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. Same problem for my son right now.

[wilsonbooks]

7. I feel your pain.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. It's a terrible feeling, knowing they are meant to go to college but either can't or

have to start out life in massive debt!

[MADem]

9. Schools want MONEY. They will take stupid(er) kids whose parents will just write the check.

It's not always about GPA and intelligence and who is the best, brightest and smartest.

The schools want that cash, so that is not unimportant. They also like to say that they want a mix of abilities--so the "less smart" kids might add value to the school in other ways, say, with social skills or outgoing personalities, or sports talent.

Grades are not what it's all about. Those luxury dorms and late night eateries that make so many of these campuses attractive cost money.

The only thing you could do is help her pay off her loan after she's done, if you can't get her a scholarship. Start saving now, even while she's going to school. Even if you put a small amount aside every month, pay it like a bill, it can add up. Also, she can do summer work, maybe take a part time work study job, and that can lower the bills, too.

ROTC is an option if she would like to go that route (but a bad option if she does NOT want to go that route--so no forcing).

Yours is a cautionary tale for anyone with children--it's NEVER TOO EARLY to start saving for college. When they're one month old, open that doggone account.

If she wants to go to that honors college, she should go. Bite the bullet, accept the debt. 50K might sound like a lot of debt, but I graduated with probably more of that (in today's dollars) back in the dark ages, and I managed to chip away at it and get rid of it. It's not fun, it takes time, but it can be done. And believe me, I came from a huge family, and the only way we were going to school is if we worked long and hard during the summer, part time during the year, and took on loans--it wasn't happening otherwise.

It's important that she get a good loan, though, with a low interest rate. Maybe you can co-sign and help her with that, too. Start looking at your options. Don't give up.

[wilsonbooks]

10. It is not about the money in the end. We will

deal with that. It is the fact that the deck is stacked that upsets her.

[MADem]

11. It always has been, though. That deck will always be stacked.

That stupid kid who plays football really well, Mr. Gentleman's C, he doesn't have the academic talent, necessarily; that foreign student (whose parent is willing to pay full freight AND pay for a semester of ESL classes, to boot) isn't going to excel in class, either; that person who won a scholarship that was awarded by another agency and is an established scholarship that has been given out for the last hundred years or whatever might not be the best qualified person, but a board of people found something in the winner that put them over the line. And the legacy kids--great grandpa, grandpa and pa went to the school, so junior must, too. And, most importantly ... They have the cash. And schools run on cash--even state schools. The money for all the things that makes a university education worthwhile has to keep coming in--someone has to pay.

It's never too early to learn that yeah, life is not fair, but you have to push on, anyway. If your daughter has the talent (and it sounds like she does) she'll come out on top if she perseveres.

[Arugula Latte]

23. The deck was stacked, but smart kids could also attend great, affordable public schools

for a very reasonable amount. Now even "cheap" state schools put you deep into debt.

But I guess asking for affordable college is asking for "ponies and unicorns," according to some on this board.

[MADem]

25. You've taken a thread by an individual looking for support, and turned it into a bitter, angry

and entirely pointless diatribe with that post.

This poster needs support, not a litany of complaints about how life sucks and it's not fair and damnit, that's a reasonable excuse for not trying, etc. Anyone trying to help you is in the "ponies and unicorns" club.

There are scholarships out there. Smart kids--and the thread starter has one of those-- CAN qualify for them. There are other programs with "payback" clauses (military, teaching in underserved areas, etc.) where kids can cut into their debt. Work - study does exist. Summer jobs do, too. Parents CAN help, especially if they are in a place where they can afford to co-sign a loan and get a better interest rate for their child.


Negativity and a finger pointing lecture won't help this DUer.

Heckuvajob.

[Arugula Latte]

28. Oh, please. Such drama.

Talk about angry and bitter.

It's a discussion board. Get over it.

[MADem]

29. Objects in your mirror are much closer than they appear. nt

[steve2470]

15. excellent answer, as always! nt

[So Far From Heaven]

12. Help her look at long term vs short term.

A classic example is Elizabeth Warren.

She has a couple of things she can do in the short term to blow away everyone else in the long term. Make the Deans list and 4.0 for the first two years. She gets Presidential scholarships at most colleges as long as her GPA stays high enough, all the way to graduation. At least that is true at all the schools I attended and those I teach at.

She will also have the ability to apply for transfer to the other schools, which will sit up and take notice of Presidential Scholarship eligibility. Those scholarships MEAN something beyond financial aide, they mean you're to be taken seriously.

In the end, those with the means usually have an easier time of it, not better, and seldom more meaningful.

Character is earned, not bought.

[AngryAmish]

14. This is why Ivy League people should not be allowed in public life.

They make the rules to benefit themselves. Screw that.

It makes me puke that every Supreme Court Justice went to the Ivy League. It represents an intellectual monoculture that ends up screwing unions, for the least example.

[MADem]

16. "Not be allowed....?"

I find myself in the very uncomfortable position of defending Ivy Leaguers.

If we didn't "allow" Ivy League people in public life, we'd have no FDR, no JFK, no Ted Kennedy, no John Kerry, no Barack Hussein Obama, no Al Gore, no Jenifer Granholm...and that's just for starters.

If you don't like the fact that the Ivy League produced the Supremes, you're gonna hate the Catholic Church--they have their oar in there, too. You think imposing religious tests on public figures is a good idea? I hope not.

That kind of "exclusion" based on where someone came from, went to school, where they worship...that's not how we do it.

[Corgigal]

17. If you're a zero on her fafsa

Then you do what my son did and attend berea college. Once she's in the first year, then she's set until she finishes her 4 years. My son went to China 2 years ago and will graduate in May. Look into it, and apply quickly cause they fill up fast. Look at videos on YouTube and talk to her. It's the most beautiful campus we ever seen, and we looked at 7 of them. It's not a broke school at all and have almost 1 billion in funds.

[wilsonbooks]

18. Thanks for that. It sounds like a beautiful school.

[Laffy Kat]

19. We were in the same boat with our #2 son.

He got almost a free ride at an out of state small private college which he LOVES. The yearly tuition at his school is close to $40K and we pay what amounts to about $1,000/month which includes everything. He had good grades in high school but his ACT score was NOT stellar. I'm just sayin' the name of the school is not important and neither is the location. Look at smaller schools in smaller towns. See if they can stick it out for two years and then rethink. Save the big name colleges for graduate school, that's really where it counts, anyway. Good luck.

[a la izquierda]

30. Depends on what your child wants to do in life.

Sorry to be totally blunt, but yeah, it just d of does matter where one goes to school. And I say this as someone who went to state schools from Kindergarten through PhD. I KNOW I didn't get jobs because I didn't go to the best schools. I work with people who don't admit students or job applicants based on a school one attended.

So...yeah.

[mnhtnbb]

20. It's been this way since I was in high school--and I graduated in '69.

My brother and I were both excellent students and Stanford legacies (our father did his Master's in Chemistry there in 1931). On top of that,
my dad did some serious fundraising for them in the greater NYC area in the late 50's and early 60's. Neither one of us was accepted,
although they deigned to agree to take me as a sophomore if I maintained a B average. Fu*k that, Stanford.

The only person from my brother's class who was admitted to Stanford from our high school was the C student granddaughter
of a woman who had a building named after her at Stanford.

This was 50 years ago. Nothing has changed.

There are lots and lots of scholarships out there. You/she might be able to cobble together some additional funds to help her.
Work/study might help.

If she does think she wants to go on to graduate school, I agree with the suggestion that she minimize her expenses at the State University
and save the name place for grad school. Many of the graduate schools offer excellent financial aid packages. My youngest son went
to UNC -Chapel Hill (in state tuition) and had a private scholarship that paid most of his tuition that my husband helped him find; applied for/received a Fulbright scholarship to spend 10 months in Berlin a year after he graduated, and ended up at Yale School of Drama where he's doing his master's, thanks to an excellent financial aid package.

Doing well at the State University can be the path to making her dreams come true.

Good luck!

[MADem]

27. George H. W. Bush gave heavy donations to both Harvard University and Phillips Academy,

of the "building" variety (libraries, I think) and guess where Monkeyboy went for his prep and post graduate work? Jeb (the class weed dealer) went to PA, too!

I can imagine that your family was FURIOUS at Stanford. Very recently, they've started to be a bit less obvious about legacies in general, but the Daddy Warbucks types who throw the construction dough at the school usually pave a way for Little Legacy to get in. The only reason I can think that Stanford would turn you down, with strong grades and a fundraising pops, is that there must have been someone who was jealous of your old man on the board, or something--maybe in school your dad stole his girl, or something!

[Stuart G]

21. The world goes on...Be sure to tell her that you love her no matter what.

That is most important..

[surrealAmerican]

22. Look at which schools will give her credit for those AP classes.

With nine of them, that could save her one or two semesters of tuition.

[TexasBushwhacker]

24. Perception is everything

She was wait listed at 4 of the schools. There's a reason for wait lists; because some students are accepted at multiple universities and openings come up.

Regarding student debt, $50K is not a lot if there is a path to paying in back. If she wants to go into a well paying career like engineering or medicine (including nursing) - go for it. Even if she wants to go into education, urban and some suburban school districts pay their starting teachers pretty well - $50 to $60K right out of college. Depending where she wants to settle down, that is a very livable income, even with student loans. But if she wants to major in undetwater basketweaving and live in San Francisco, acquiring lot of student debt is a bad idea.

[MADem]

26. Good advice.

LOL @ the "underwater basketweaving" major--haven't heard that in years! Ahh, memories!

[a la izquierda]

31. Depending on what your child wants to do...

She needs to go to the best school possible. End of story. We are a superficial society, and name recognition matters (totally don't care what anyone else says on here).

[Generic Brad]

32. Encourage her to work (I know this is an unpopular position)

My daughter was in the same position three years ago. We encouraged her to go out and work and boy did she. She is due to graduate cum laude in two months with a double major and a minor. She probably sleeps about 5 hours a night due to her drive and thirst for knowledge. She studies extremely hard, but she also works. She kept her part time job at a local business working there one day a week. Then she landed a part time job as a personal assistant for the president of her university. Then she also became a teaching assistant for two classes in her main field. Then she got a fellowship in her field of study with a state agency. She has done all of this simultaneously and is graduating debt free. We helped her out by continuing to let her live at home and staying out of her way.

Last week she accepted an offer from an Ivy league school to enter a PhD program where she will be salaried and have her tuition and health care paid for over the next 5 years. My wife and I are immensely proud of her.

While I acknowledge my daughter is not the norm, I can attest that it is still possible to get through college without debt regardless of what everyone else on this board says. My wife had a burning desire to get educated against the wishes of her family and she financed it herself and did it. My family wanted me to get a manufacturing job and avoid the education nonsense, but I worked my way through two degrees with minimal debt. Now my daughter has done the same. It can be done with talent, desire, grit, and a little luck.

I suspect that most people at DU probably think I am full of B.S. about this and if they don't they would most likely consider it shameful that she worked four jobs simultaneously to graduate debt free. No matter. Pretty much only her former teachers, professors, and my wife and I realize exactly how exceptional she is. Intellectually, my daughter is in the 99th percentile in virtually every test category and she has been driven since kindergarten to eventually become a college professor and a world expert in her field.

Three years ago even she did not foresee the success she is currently enjoying. We all had the same anxieties and concerns you are expressing. But remember, your daughter is just beginning her journey. Just impress upon her that every experience is potentially an opportunity. She has the power to make things happen and the ability to prove naysayers wrong. I wish her all the success in the world. If she really wants a degree, she will find a way to get it.

[TexasBushwhacker]

33. I so agree

I was a teacher for 9 years and ran into one of my former students and her sister at a concert. It turned we were all fans of this local band, so we became friends.

It turned out both of her parents were teachers so money was tight. They had 4 kids, spaced fairly close together. They had a family meeting at some point and told the kids that their college educations would be their responsibility. While they obviously valued education, they said they simply couldn't finance college for all 4 and save anything for retirement.

They suggested that the kids work hard and do well in school so that they could get at least partial scholarships and that they plan on working part time and summers. ALL 4 kids went to college and finished their degrees and didn't have mountains of debt. It was important and they worked for it.

[IdaBriggs]

34. Ahem. Did 75 credits in 8 months and saved a fortune.

Used CLEP to successfully test out of 7 classes (I tried for 10) which netted me 25 credits, then did double loads (28 credits the semester I got married). I did not sleep.

CLEP rules are different for each school, so investigation is necessary. I was already an adult when I did this, so personal motivation was very high. Also, socialization was not the focus of that period.

Good luck!

[Iris]

35. What about a school in Canada?

We have neighbors whose child went to school on Canada because the tuition was significantly less than even a state school.