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Fri Apr 15, 2016, 07:54 AM

Can the lounge please check my logic?

Last year(2015) I had 28 hours of vacation time that I didn't use. I took a couple of days off in early April 2016.
The company I work for claims my vacation hours expired on March 31(2016). I disagree. Before I present my defense can you check my logic. I only ask because they have done this to coworkers also and I think they are wrong
based on the company policy statement which reads...

"Up to 50% of your Vacation hours may currently be carried over into the next calendar year, they must be consumed by March 31st of the following calendar year."

My logic says the hours from 2015 can be carried over to 2016 and must be consumed by March 31st the"following year which is 2017".

It's a good company. I think they are just confused by their own statement.

Edit to change of to off.

14 replies, 2501 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 14 replies Author Time Post
Reply Can the lounge please check my logic? (Original post)
amerikat Apr 2016 OP
amerikat Apr 2016 #1
Turbineguy Apr 2016 #2
amerikat Apr 2016 #3
Phentex Apr 2016 #8
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2016 #4
amerikat Apr 2016 #5
amerikat Apr 2016 #6
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2016 #7
amerikat Apr 2016 #10
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2016 #12
amerikat Apr 2016 #13
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2016 #14
malthaussen Apr 2016 #9
amerikat Apr 2016 #11

Response to amerikat (Original post)

Fri Apr 15, 2016, 08:02 AM

1. The calendar year is Jan 1 to Dec 31.

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Response to amerikat (Original post)

Fri Apr 15, 2016, 08:06 AM

2. 2015 is "currently"

2016 is "next"

2017 is "following"

That's how I read it. Anyway, I think that taking away accrued vacation is a bad idea. Although saving up months and taking it at once is a problem too.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 15, 2016, 08:19 AM

3. It's only 28 hours.

So my Logic is correct. Thanks Turbineguy

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Response to amerikat (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 15, 2016, 09:59 AM

8. Your logic may be correct but I don't know why their policy would allow it...

they have worded it wrong but I am guessing they mean for people to use up their vacation by March 31st of the year immediately following the year it was earned. Sounds like they want people to use up their vacation and not carry it.

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Response to amerikat (Original post)

Fri Apr 15, 2016, 08:22 AM

4. The problem is with how they've phrased the policy

"Up to 50% of your Vacation hours may currently be carried over into the next calendar year, they must be consumed by March 31st of the following calendar year."


This statement may be grammatically interpreted to agree with your statement. However, I feel that it is somewhat obvious that the intent was as follows:
"Up to 50% of your Vacation hours may be carried over into the next calendar year; they remain available until March 31st of that year."

You would have trouble convincing a party of your position based on the phrases "into the next calendar year" and "of the following calendar year" apparently not agreeing. Your assertion (that 14 hours of 2015 vacation) remains available until 31 March 2017 falters a bit in that the New Year's 50% reduction could be applied twice to the same set of hours.

Arguing with payroll may not be in your best interests.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 15, 2016, 08:31 AM

5. I get 80 hours vacation. so up to 40 can be carried. i'm only asking for the 28 hours

left over from 2015.

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Response to amerikat (Reply #5)

Fri Apr 15, 2016, 08:59 AM

6. I have to get some sleep before work. I'll check back in before

I leave for work at 5pm. Thanks .

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Response to amerikat (Reply #5)

Fri Apr 15, 2016, 09:47 AM

7. You can explain your view regarding the phrases containing the words "next" and "following".

No one can really fault you for making the interpretation you have explained here.

IMHO it is without a doubt that the policy as written contains ambiguities. Most payroll departments list any paid time off (PTO) available on your check stub. Your first check for a pay period ending on or after the first of April should have reflected the number of hours to which you had eligibility. If you are paid weekly for weeks ending on Fridays or Saturdays, the check you received last week should have reflected the lost hours. If you took the time before you received that check or if they don't list vacation on your stub, you may have an case.

OTOH if this has happened before and they've not let you have the benefit, your case may be weak. The same is true if they've disallowed the benefit to others.

It is important that employees be treated fairly and the company may balk at the idea of giving you the benefit of the doubt when they've denied others the same.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:26 AM

10. They use a payroll company.

As of today the 28 hours are still shown as carryover vacation hours. However they deducted the time I took off from what are called floating holidays. We are a 24/7/365 operation. I often work holidays without extra pay and
get floating holidays to make up for it.

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Response to amerikat (Reply #10)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:20 AM

12. Vacation usually has a process associated with it.

One usually checks in with management about the days to be taken in some written form. Take your copy of your stub and written vacation approval to your manager and ask him/her to correct the mistake.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:04 AM

13. Yes all vacation requests are made thru the third party payroll site.

He thinks he corrected it by taking my compensation from other time earned and not from the 28 hours
of carryover. The request was granted. I asked it to be taken from the rollover time. I'll keep working on this
and I will eventually get the 28 hours back.


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Response to amerikat (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:06 AM

14. good

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Response to amerikat (Original post)

Fri Apr 15, 2016, 10:04 AM

9. It is ambiguous as written...

... but if in practice the company has already interpreted "following year" to mean "next year," then they won't make an exception for you. Your only recourse would be legal arbitration, in which case you might win your point (ambiguous language is usually interpreted against the party who wrote the language), but all of HR and the company's administrators will hate you -- and so will any co-workers who have previously been burned by the policy. So what's that 28 hours worth to you? Note that even if your interpretation is reasonable by logic or law, that doesn't mean you'll win your point.

The language is strikingly similar to the old "Reserve Clause" in baseball, which was ultimately overturned after long legal battles; but the players who first began to fight it in court were soon anathema to the entire league, and now of course traditionalists bitch that free agency has ruined the sport.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #9)

Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:38 AM

11. Our site administrator interprets it this way.

Not sure if HR or legal interprets it that way. I'll ask for clarification from higher up the food chain.

I believe I can do this anonymously through a third party provided by the company. They offer help
in issues such as drug abuse, tax problems, legal stuff.

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