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Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsLooking for someone much more articulate than I, and
More versed in communicating with those who seem immune to logic and reason and just won't consider or accept fact.
My wife is convinced that a home thermostat works the same as a gas/brake pedal in a car. I'll explain further in a moment.
First of all, she isn't stupid. She runs the book keeping dept. for a rather large collection of regional dealerships. In the areas of anything concerning numbers, contracts or organization, she is brilliant, maybe even approaching genius level. Outside that narrow band of competence and expertise, however, she is sorely lacking.
Over the nearly 30 years we've been together, I have tried to explain to her, countless dozens of times, the basics of how a thermostat actually functions. She believes cranking the heat/AC all the way up is the same as flooring the gas in a car. That it will get cooler/warmer faster. And that when, because she's wandered off and forgotten about "flooring" it, when it inevitably gets too warm/cool, turning the thermostat all the way down is the same a applying the brakes. That setting the thermostat at 65, for instance, means the AC/heat blows 65 degree air. Or 78 degrees at that setting. She also believes that setting the oven for ,say, 350 degrees, you get a 350 degree flame.
Each time I explain to her that, no that isn't how things work and go on to explain how things, in reality, work, she'll give me the skunk eye, as if I just make this shit up as I go along, and go right back to her 350 degree flames and flooring it. She is very big on researching to verify or discount things to her personal satisfaction, yet being convinced that her thermostat lunacy is unimpeachable, she refuses to research this topic.
After dealing with this, even though without success, for more than a quarter century, I've become accustomed to the futility of broaching the subject except in extreme situations, which still prove futile.
The situation now, is that having listed our home, and leasing a condo for a year while we look at new homes, we're paying both mortgage and lease payments, making her exceptionally aware of every cent of income and pay out.
While I am quite comfortable with the AC set at 72-74, she'll come home after 5:00 on a mid 90s day, fire up her 350 degree flame oven for dinner, which in this small condo pushes the temp up to close to 80 to where the AC is running non-stop. Running at capacity. She'll turn the AC down to 63 or so, convinced the 63 degree air will cool us off,( it doesn't).
So now, because of this, our power bills are WAY higher than they should be. She believes the reason is that I must be doing something weird, electrically, when I'm home alone. She's even come home unexpectedly, during the day, a few times when I'm off work and she's not, trying to catch me doing whatever weird electrical wasting nonsense she might imagine. Every month, both when the power bill comes and again when she goes to send payment, she gripes at me to stop whatever it is I'm doing that makes it so high. *Sigh*
So I try to explain, again how thermostats work, and that turning it further down when the AC is already running at full capacity does nothing other than force it to run at capacity even longer. For my trouble, I get the skunk eye and the strong insinuation that I just make this shit up as I go along, while she keeps on keeping on.
Any ideas on how I might get her to consider fact, logic, reason and reality would be greatly appreciated.
DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)I've seen this happen on both sides of a partnership. For example, the hubs thinks running the A/C on high fan if it's humid enough to make the window unit freeze up, is a good thing.
Thing he's not understanding is that he just needs to turn the ACTUAL fan on, that's in the room, to keep the air circulating from the other A/C units, and turn OFF the affected A/C and let it thaw.
I have this argument every summer with him. And then when it gets "too cold" for him, he turns on the heat in the bedroom. We have individual thermostats in each room for the heaters. Or, the windows are open, so he turns on the heaters. No, close the window, and don't turn on the heat. If it's not cold enough to turn on the heat, put on some MORE clothes, like a sweater or sweatshirt to be comfortable.
I've had to show him the electric bill, NUMEROUS times to get through to him that what he's doing is actually increasing the usage. Both of his actions make the A/C units that aren't having issues work HARDER. This not only increases my bill, it shortens the life of the unit.
I feel your pain. There is no easy way for you to do this.
stopbush
(24,396 posts)Unfortunately, some people are loath to believe explanations from people they don't consider to be authorities, even if the explanation makes perfect sense.
She might change her mind if she reads it coming from a third party.
Better yet, have her call any reliable AC repair company and they'll explain it.
I'm currently unemployed for the past two weeks. I'll be getting UI benefits. My wife asked why I don't consider doing some off-the-books work as an Über driver to make extra cash. When I told her that Über wasn't off the books she didn't believe me, because her "friends" (none of who are Über drivers) told her it was off the books. I told her doing so would screw up my UI benefits, and encouraged her to look up on the web what an Über driver makes. She did, and she saw that they don't work off the books.
Hayduke Bomgarte
(1,965 posts)Too many times to count. In her mind there is no earthly reason to waste the time looking it up, because there is no way she can be wrong.
One thing I didn't address is why she runs the oven on hot days.
We have never given our dogs dog food. Researching the subject years ago, she became enamored of the raw food diet for pets. Raw beef. Raw chicken, ground up bones and all. Either with pet friendly veggies mixed in. The dogs we've had over the years all appeared to benefit. She got into this because of an article on pet food additives possibly shortening the life and diminishing life quality of pets.
Over the span of a few years, it became too much trouble and time consuming to prepare their meals each day in that fashion. So it evolved to where she now, and has for a good while, crock pots roasts, skinless-boneless chicken breasts and the like, for the dogs. Trying to explain to her that cooked food amounts to leftovers and leftovers are universally accepted as being unhealthy for pets. Maybe even more unhealthy than the dog foods she is so dismissive of. For my trouble, I get the skunk eye and... Well. you get the idea.
So one crock pot batch makes two days of meals for our dogs. Hence the oven. Not wanting to feed them cold stuff, she uses the oven to take the chill off, then since it's already on, she'll make our dinner using the oven. Now, we have a microwave oven she could use on these hot days. She won't use it, even though I do myself, with no adverse affects, because she is convinced microwaves somehow poison or otherwise render foods unhealthy. When I try to explain why that isn't correct, I get the skunk eye, and...
I have suggested, numerous times, that she look these things up. Waste of time. No point. Skunk eye.
stopbush
(24,396 posts)Have you tried yelling louder than her?
Hayduke Bomgarte
(1,965 posts)That REALLY doesn't work.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)If she's truly "immune to logic and reason and just won't consider or accept fact" then nothing you say will have the desired effect.
If there's one thing I've learned from being knowledgeable on a subject and then trying to help say, my parents, with the same knowledge, is that I am dismissed because I'm not an official authority on the subject. Now, if a magazine, whose authority is trusted, comes along and says the exact same thing as what I tried to offer, well they're accepted without question.
So, my advice is for you to find someone, say an a/c/ repair-person or salesperson in that field to explain it to her. They have to work with the public all the time and likely understand how to "dumb it down" best without being condescending. Plus, they are an official authority. You are not, and you never will be. That's just the way it is with some folks
Good luck!
haele
(12,650 posts)Or take an A/C repair class at the local CC, so you can claim authority.
Actually, if you live in the Southwest, taking A/C repair may become somewhat of a survival skill requirement. Along with learning how to make and maintain personal home evaporators...
Haele
kentauros
(29,414 posts)while I was likely still proofing mine
Also, home evaporators only work in dry conditions. Most of the South is along the Gulf of Mexico, so humidity is high and home evaporators won't work. I figure what more people will begin using are mini-splits. Despite the disadvantages that link lists, a mini-split allows you to cool only those rooms you're actively using.
Right now, I'm in one room of my apartment. There's absolutely no reason why my bedroom, living room, kitchen, and both bathrooms need cooling. When I'm ready to work in my kitchen, or eat a meal, I could shut off the one in here and turn on the others as needed. Of course, I don't have mini-splits. I can't think of any apartment complex that does, other than window-units.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,683 posts)They turn off when the temperature reaches what they were set for. But you knew that. I'm trying to think of a way to demonstrate that. Maybe you could do it by timing how long it takes to reach the desired setting. Say your house is at 80 degrees and you want to cool it to 70. Your wife thinks it will get cooler faster if the A/C is set to 63. So do exactly that and time how long it takes to get to 70. Then let it warm up to 80 again and set the A/C for the exact temperature you want, 70 degrees, and time it. QED.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)Use the microwave.
Limit stove-top cooking, use the side burner of your grill if possible.
No crockpot cooking.
She will be surprised by the savings.
Hayduke Bomgarte
(1,965 posts)There really haven't been any ideas I haven't already tried, in nearly 30 years.
I think I'm just screwed.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)Put a locked clear case over the thermostat. If she wants to change it, she'll have to ask you to do it. You can then tell her why you're not going to, or set it to what you think it should be. And then lock it up again. Hide the key, too; don't put it on your regular keyring.
At least you can get something done. I told my landlord that my thermostat was acting up by not being able to figure out whether it should be on or off or back on again or back off again. He acknowledged my text, and I never heard from him again on it. That was two months ago. I'm concerned that it might burn out the unit, the last thing I want in Texas summer heat and humidity. And the last thing I would think a landlord would want is an expensive repair when preventive maintenance is such a better monetary choice.
mnhtnbb
(31,384 posts)I was typing while you were posting.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Sentath
(2,243 posts)there are reasons I'm single.
Ron Obvious
(6,261 posts)I've had the same conversation with people many times. Even when I explain how it works, I still get looks of disbelief.
More proof, if it were needed, that using logic never seems to convince anyone.
Ptah
(33,028 posts)Show her that the air comes out at the same temperature whether the thermostat at at 72 or 63
mnhtnbb
(31,384 posts)Tell her she can yell and scream as much as she likes but it will make no difference. You have
decided to follow reason and science.
Then tell her you are taking her out to dinner. Period. End of discussion.
(Just make sure any weapons have been hidden before you try this.)
Hayduke Bomgarte
(1,965 posts)Never got around to it. Now, in a rental, I don't want to go drilling holes in the wall.
Besides that, she is very likely at least mildly bi-polar. It runs in her family, with an aunt and sister both on meds for it, and she herself exhibits many of the main characteristics, but doesn't believe in modern medicine or Doctors and refuses to see one, or acknowledge she MAY be afflicted. Her unpredictable explosions of rage are, to me, to be avoided at all costs, even though they are brief and never physical. Not knowing what might provoke one of her "conniption fits" I tread very lightly.
benld74
(9,904 posts)Iggo
(47,552 posts)ArtD48
(150 posts). . . that the fire in the heater is the same temp. regardless of if the temp is set to 78 or 98.
Hayduke Bomgarte
(1,965 posts)Too many dozens of times, over nearly 30 years, to count. I've explained that the thermostat merely regulates how LONG the appliance runs to reach desired temps, BECAUSE the flame/air temp remains the same regardless of settings. As I said more than once, those explanations only get me the skunk eye while she continues on.
trof
(54,256 posts)But she believed it when I explained it to her.
Sorry, dude.
mnhtnbb
(31,384 posts)If you haven't already had the tech out this year to do preventive maintenance on your HVAC,
then schedule the appointment when she will promise to be there.
Then raise the issue and ask the tech to explain the situation so she can hear
first hand from someone who is an authority.
Hayduke Bomgarte
(1,965 posts)Humiliating to ask an expert to explain to my wife what is essentially, in their field, why and how 2+2=4. Knowing her, as I do so well, I also wouldn't be surprised to be accused, by her, of some sort of bribery or trickery.
There actually was, years ago, a stretch where she seemed to absorb what I was telling her and left the therostat alone for most of a winter, before returning to the SOS. When I spoke to her about this being a settled issue, that I'd explained and she'd seemingly accepted reality during a discussion, pointing out that she left the thermo untouched for months, she claimed no memory of any such conversation.
There really are dynamics at play that you couldn't grasp without several pages of back ground info. Bottom line is, I can't win with her.
Thanks though.
mnhtnbb
(31,384 posts)"Bottom line is, I can't win with her."
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Hayduke Bomgarte
(1,965 posts)I never though of that.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)It sounds like you have a lot more going on there. My son is bipolar, and that has been a heartbreaking challenge from when he was very young. Meds were extremely helpful at times, when that was possible.
In marital relationships, marriage counseling can be helpful in a general way and can help stave off a negative progression in the relationship. But I don't think they've found a way to solve the Battle of the Thermostat yet.
Personally, I set my A/C at 85°. But I live alone and can sit around in my shorts. Outside temp is currently 104°.
Best of luck to you!
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,683 posts)the elevator will arrive sooner.
Iggo
(47,552 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)The more you press it the sooner you'll get the pedestrian 'Walk' signal. It's a very well known fact!
rug
(82,333 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)Set your thermostat to where you want it.
Next, install a fake thermostat over your existing thermostat. Then she can enjoy believing that she's changing the temperature, and you can enjoy the fact that she isn't. win/win lol
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Nice thought, though.
Ptah
(33,028 posts)In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)He'll just have to tell her he installed a new one.
I was curious, so I did some reading about this. It turns out that most large office buildings have fake thermostats installed. Studies tend to show that people find comfort in what the thermostat says the temperature is, even if it's not accurate.
Now if she's going through obscene hot flashes like me, you can throw all this advice right out the window. If she's hot, she's going to find any means to cool down. My poor husband, and what he has to put up with. I kept the windows open in our bedroom all winter long. I slept with a sheet, he slept with four blankets.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)While I set the AC to 85° in summer and sleep with whatever temp my open windows reduce it to at night, I prefer around 65° for sleeping but I'll take it even lower and just cover up more.
I know, right? It's easier to add a few layers for warmth than it is to try and cool down.
eppur_se_muova
(36,261 posts)Last edited Wed Jun 29, 2016, 07:58 PM - Edit history (1)
Ask her how SHE thinks the thermostat works, first of all. It sounds like she'll tell you it somehow heats more the higher the thermostat, and cools more the lower it is. Then let her know that only high-end, usually custom-tailored heating/cooling systems work that way. Most homes/apts have the simple on-off system because it's (1) much cheaper to implement, and (2) much simpler to set up. If you were living in a 36-room mansion you'd probably have a system like she imagines, which would have been carefully fine-tuned over several days after installation for maximum comfort, but you aren't, so you don't.
It wouldn't hurt to acknowledge that yes, her idea seems to make more sense, and it would probably work much better in terms of maintaining comfort. But that's not what the gloriously infallible Free Market provides. The homebuilding industry is based on volume production, which tends to make it very conservative -- i.e., non-innovative. I have often wondered why things don't seem to have improved much over the several decades of my life, given how much almost everything else seems to have changed so much. IIRC the White House has had separate temperature controls for each room since it was constructed, but this has never moved into most residential housing. Apparently shipping tons of granite around the world to make (sometimes radioactive, radon-emitting) countertops is a more profitable enterprise than building a better thermostat. Now, it's true that mercury switches on bimetallic strip thermometers have given way to programmable digital thermostats, but most houses/apts still have a single, central thermostat, and it's not always in a location that gives representative readings (we had to close the vents in the hall bathroom completely to stop the AC from flipping on/off too quickly -- thermostat's in the hall, of course). I note that our thermostat can display both Fahrenheit and Celsius temps, but can only be set in 1 degree increments, which means that if you prefer Celsius temps you can only turn the settings up or down by 1.8 deg F at a time. Why aren't there decimals, or at least half degrees, on this "modern" thermostat ? Basically, because there's no big profit margin in making such "small" improvements, no matter how much the customer might want them.
(I dislike posting/emailing advertising, but the GIF caught my eye . Perhaps this is an easy, non-permanent installation, which can be done w/out running a lot of wiring ? If so, I'm glad to see someone is FINALLY thinking in this direction: http://santafeair.com/blog/article/how-to-stop-fighting-over-the-thermostats-temperature-setting )
ETA: Here's a link to some minimal hardware: http://www.smarthome.com/residential-control-systems-001-00242-zc2s-hvac-2-zone-controller.html Note that you need to install remotely controlled dampers in the ductwork, though. I would have thought that by now someone would have designed drop-in units that fit in a standard vent, get power from a nearby outlet, and communicate by wifi with the base unit thermostat -- i.e., a fraction of the sophistication that's shown in all those fancy new security gadgets flooding the market. As I said -- not very innovative.
athena
(4,187 posts)in the commercial building where I have my studio?
I tried to explain to her how thermostats work the first time she cranked up the heat to 86 F in the winter, and she yelled at me. I hate confrontation, so this was very upsetting to me, and I didn't bring it up again. Since then, I've tried to program the thermostat around her, and mostly have had good success. She only changes the setting when she's hot or cold. If I program things so that the place is always comfortable, she doesn't mess with it. Have you tried this solution?
The other possible solution is that you could take over the cooking. Why is she the one doing the cooking, anyway, when she doesn't even understand how ovens work?
Finally, you could invite her to do an experiment. For one month, program the thermostat around your schedules and don't touch it. See what happens to your electricity bill. You could offer to take her out to dinner if you lose.
Final solution: get a divorce. Seriously, if you can't communicate over something this impersonal and objective, there must be other, subtler and more important things about which you're also not communicating.
csziggy
(34,136 posts)If so, explain that the thermostat is like the cruise control - it doesn't make the car go faster or slower, it attempts to maintain a constant speed. Same for the thermostat - it just attempts to keep a constant temperature.
Unfortunately from what you say, that analogy may not work. In which case, go with the faker thermostat. Or get a programmable one that will return to the desired setting in a short period of time.
My thermostat drops back to the factory programmed temperatures at 6 am, noon, 6 PM and midnight. When on air conditioning it is preset at 74 at night and 76 during the day. On very sunny hot mornings, the room my computer is in will heat up to 80, so often in the morning I will kick the setting down to 74, knowing that it will reset by the time the sun is not hitting the windows in my room. I could program it to do it automatically but I don't get uncomfortable every morning so I only need to change it when I get too warm.
My thermostat looks almost identical to this Honeywell one - though the one on this page has some options ours doesn't, such as "Multiple hold options - fixed temporary, adjustable temporary, and permanent holds available" that would be perfect for your situation.
http://www.lowes.com/pd/Honeywell-7-Day-Touch-Screen-Programmable-Thermostat/3574008
That one is a learning thermostat - it will adjust to resets and remember them. That might not be what you want, but I bet there is an override for it.