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trof

(54,256 posts)
Thu Apr 5, 2012, 07:29 PM Apr 2012

Mid-air collision during air refueling. A Ripping Yarn:

Oh hell, this deserves its own thread.
From my OP about first flight test of Boeing 727.
It's just a good yarn (I think).

I'll try and keep it understandable for the 'civilians'.


The airplane: Rf-84/F 'Thunderflash'.


The refueling looked like this:
?w=600&h=386

At 8 a.m we briefed a refueling mission to be flown in four-ship formation in finger-tip configuration.
....1
..2...3
..........4
Lead is '1', '2' flies his left wing, I'm '3' on lead's right wing, and '4' is on my right wing.
Each plane is stacked slightly below and slightly aft of the one he's flying on.
This is kinda tricky, but we're divided into two 'elements'.
'1' and '2' are the first element, and '3'(me) and '4' are the second element.
'2' and '3' should stick with/'fly on' '1', and '4' should consider me as his lead and stick with me, regardless of what lead does.
If I should leave the formation for any reason, '4' is expected to stay with me.
Clear?
OK.

My friend Jack is flying lead. He's one of the best pilots in the squadron. Flew P-47s and P-51s in WWII. An Ace. Really good 'stick' and I trust him implicitly.
When you're flying in tight formation in other than the lead position, the ONLY thing you have your eyes glued on is lead. And you do whatever is necessary to stay with him. You have no time to look anywhere but at his aircraft. If your lead flies into a mountain side, you'll hit a nano-second after he does. That's just how it is.
Several years ago lead in a four-ship USAF Thunderbirds team flew into a mountain during a practice flight. So did 2, 3, and 4.


The guys in the '2' and '4' position are new to our guard squadron. Not newbies just out of pilot training, but they had just joined our unit. Although they'd both done air refueling when in the active duty Air Force, it was their first refueling mission with us.

We did formation take-offs in elements of two, and joined up in our four-ship as indicated above and sailed off for our designated tanker track. No problem.

Jack found the tanker and we began to close.
Enroute we were cruising at 350 knots, but when you get within a few miles of the tanker you need to slow down to his speed of about 250 knots. All four of us, in formation, first have to fly in formation with the tanker. Once we're established there, we can slide in behind the trailing boom, one at a time, and start taking on fuel.

Note: ANYTIME lead makes a change in aircraft configuration (like putting down flaps, or popping speed brakes), he ALWAYS gives the rest of the flight notice so they can stay with him. On the radio he'll say something like "Bama Flight...speed brakes...NOW!
And everyone deploys speed brakes at the same time and are able to stay in formation.
That's the way it's supposed to work.

For some reason, Jack forgot.
For some reason we came SCREAMING in on the tanker.
WAY faster than they were.
Remember, I'm not looking ahead, or at the tanker, or anywhere but at Jack.
My eyes are RIVETED on him.
And I see his speed brakes (or 'boards') come out.
(These are panels on either side of the aft fuselage about 2' X2' that deploy about 80 degrees out from the fuselage and slow the aircraft down DRAMATICALLY.)

Jack gave no preliminary warning, but AS his boards were coming out I heard a rapid "speedbrakesNOW!"
Back then I was good enough that I could have stayed on Jack's wing no matter what he did.
I ain't braggin', but I was pretty damn good at close formation.
As soon as I saw his boards start to deploy I could have popped mine and stayed with him.
The switch was right there under my left thumb on the throttle.

In the nano-second that followed my decision process was as follows:
"Whatthefuck? Goddamit Jack! I could stay with you but what about the guy on MY wing?
I don't know how good he is. Could he stay with me if I stayed with Jack? I dunno. I'm leaving the formation."
I didn't pop my boards, and I didn't overrun Jack, I just began a slow pull up, slightly to the right and away from Jack while I called on the radio "3 is leaving formation." I expected '4' to stay with me, as he should have.

Well, he didn't.
I have no idea what exactly happened next, didn't see it.
But '2' and '4' somehow wound up canopy to canopy.
Busted both canopies and then the 'Mayday-Mayday-Mayday' * calls started.

Needless to say, we aborted the refueling mission.
I eventually found my wingman and established radio contact with him.
Sort of. The noise without a canopy is daunting.
We were near McGhee-Tyson Air National Guard Base in Knoxville and I alerted them to the emergency and flew his wing to get him on the ground there.
We sent our T-Bird 2-seater trainer up there to fetch him home that afternoon.
I returned to my base at Birmingham.

'2' somehow made in back to Birmingham alone, sans canopy.
Jack evidently never saw his wingman again and also returned to Birmingham.

After I'd parked and shut down, I saw Jack in the parachute shack where we kept our flight gear.
"Man?...What the fuck?"
He just shook his head.
"I dunno, I just don't know."


* Mayday is the international radio call for an inflight emergency. From the French M'aidez: 'help me'.






16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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CaliforniaPeggy

(149,775 posts)
1. Wow, trof!
Thu Apr 5, 2012, 07:41 PM
Apr 2012

Yeah, this deserved its own thread!

Talk about thinking on your feet...er, whatever...

Ya done good.

Don't know what happened to Jack, what made him do what he did...

GREAT story.

trof

(54,256 posts)
2. Well... we had to meet a Flight Evaluation Board.
Thu Apr 5, 2012, 07:52 PM
Apr 2012

The FEB is the hearing you get (lots of high ranking 'brass') when somebody screws up during a flight.
Especially when hardware is damaged.
As it certainly was in this case.

I came in and told my story, just as it happened.
So did Jack, but I have no knowledge what his testimony was.
We kind of mutually avoided each other after that.
I never got any explanation for his actions that day.
He soon 'retired' from the guard.
I received no reprimand.


OriginalGeek

(12,132 posts)
7. That was inTENSE!
Fri Apr 6, 2012, 11:44 AM
Apr 2012

Just from reading it I still have that weird feeling in my taint that you get when you look up from texting and see the cars in front of you have stopped...

(not saying you did wrong like a driving texter - just that I have that feeling now...lol)

trof

(54,256 posts)
10. Yeah, it went from routine to 'OH SHIT!' in a split second.
Fri Apr 6, 2012, 06:52 PM
Apr 2012

Which happens not infrequently in aviation.

P.S. Stop Wrecks, Don't Text.

OriginalGeek

(12,132 posts)
11. "Stop Wrecks, Don't Text."
Fri Apr 6, 2012, 07:17 PM
Apr 2012

yeah, NOW ya tell me....



thankfully that lesson only cost a little pride and a couple bucks.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
8. Sooner or later, no matter how good, how experienced, how talented
Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:24 PM
Apr 2012

we all screw up.

Good thing it was just 'stuff' that got bent up, and not people.

trof

(54,256 posts)
9. I still don't know what got into Jack that day.
Fri Apr 6, 2012, 06:49 PM
Apr 2012

I'd guess he was in his mid to late 40s.
Maybe he'd lost a step or two.
Flying fighters, at least back then, was a young man's game.
I was half his age.
As far as reflexes go, I was at the top of my game.
As pilots get older and begin to lose the edge on reflexes, they compensate in experience.
Especially in commercial flying.
You learn to fly 'smarter' and not get yourself into situations where lightning reflexes are needed so much.

Maybe he had something else on his mind, some personal problem.
He said he didn't know and I don't either.
I don;t remember any specific judgements or recommendations that the Flight Evaluation Board came up with. It was a long time ago.

If memory serves, that was Jack's last flight. He was put on the status 'Duties Not Including Flying (DNIF) and 'retired' from the guard a few months later.
We never met or talked about the flight after I confronted him in the parachute shack.

kcass1954

(1,819 posts)
12. What a story! In-flight fueling always fascinated me.
Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:49 PM
Apr 2012

My dad has some incredible home movies he took when he was pilot.

I remember one of us asking what happened if they "missed." He just said, "We don't."

KT2000

(20,602 posts)
13. Check out YouTube
Fri Apr 6, 2012, 10:22 PM
Apr 2012

There are some terrific videos of inflight re-fueling a variety of aircraft.
In 2006, they marked the 50 year anniversary of the KC-135. Apparently they released lots of photos and film accumulated over the years. You can enter into search "KC-135 tribute" and see some good ones. I recommend one by Oissia (sp) for video and good U2 music. There are some others that are still photos (JBryant and Spook50).

You can enter into search "KC-135 Boom" and go to the one that uses the Boom soundtrack to video.
There are lots of good videos that you would enjoy.

My dad was a Boeing engineer who spent much of his career on the KC-97 and then the KC-135. I always thought it was a troop transport until I came across these videos. Amazing and the skill of the pilots and crew involved is so impressive.

trof

(54,256 posts)
15. Yes, many times 'missing' isn't an option.
Sat Apr 7, 2012, 08:07 AM
Apr 2012

We brought 8 F-84s back from a joint exercise in Puerto Rico.
Non-stop from Ramey AFB, PR to Birmingham, AL, about 1700 miles.
Took us about 6 hours.
We accompanied by 2 KC-135s and each F-84 made a couple of hookups along the way.
Out over the ocean the choices were get gas or go for a swim.

A HERETIC I AM

(24,382 posts)
14. Very Cool. Regarding the Thunderbirds accident you mentioned, they didn't fly into a mountain.....
Fri Apr 6, 2012, 11:07 PM
Apr 2012

they flew into the desert floor.

Referred to as the "Indian Springs Diamond Crash"

1982. Quite a few more than "several years ago"!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_Crash

trof

(54,256 posts)
16. "The other pilots, in accordance with their training, did not break formation."
Sat Apr 7, 2012, 06:34 PM
Apr 2012

Yeah that was sad.
2, 3, qnd 4 did exactly what they had been trained to do, but lead had a malfunction.
The three wingmen probably didn't even realize the ground was rushing up to them.
In tight formation you are FIXATED on lead.
To STAY in tight formation you can't afford even a glance at anything else.
However, a 'planned level off at 100' is cutting it WAY to close for me.
bummer

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