Somebody on the DU doesn't like Socialsist!

[Omaha Steve]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=776421

[VanillaRhapsody]

1. I do not agree with Socialism...

I am a Socialist Democrat because I want balace between Labor and Capital.....not the elimination of private ownership.

[mentalslavery]

3. socialism is not the elimination of private ownership, communism is

the difference is that a socialistic society with identify a robust array of services and products and define those as collectively owned such as gas, health, fire, police, etc. Everything else is private. Whereas, in communism, which does not exist and never has (besides small group tribal societies) is the complete elimination of private ownership.

[VanillaRhapsody]

4. Oh yes it is

Europe and the Netherlands are Social Democracies....not democratic socialist states and the existence of Capitalism is the distinction...

[VanillaRhapsody]

5. Democratic Socialism is..

Democratic socialism
Not to be confused with Social democracy.
Democratic socialism is a political ideology advocating a democratic political system alongside a socialist economic system, involving a combination of political democracy (usually multi-party representative democracy) with social ownership of the means of production. Although sometimes used synonymously with "socialism", the adjective "democratic" is sometimes added to distinguish itself from other models of socialism which democratic socialists perceive to be undemocratic.[1]

Democratic socialism is usually distinguished from both the Soviet model of a centralized economy and social democracy.[2] A distinction is also made between democratic socialism and social democracy in that the former is committed to systemic transformation of the economy while the latter is not.[3] However, "democratic socialism" is sometimes improperly used as a synonym for social democracy, where "social democracy" usually refers to support for political democracy, regulation of the capitalist economy, and a welfare state.[4]

Democratic socialism rejects the social democratic view of reform through state intervention within capitalism, seeing capitalism as inherently incompatible with the democratic values of freedom, equality, and solidarity. Democratic socialists believe that the economic contradictions inherent to capitalism can only be solved by transitioning from capitalism to socialism, by superseding private property with some form of social ownership, with any attempt to address the economic contradictions of capitalism through reforms only being likely to generate more problems elsewhere in the capitalist economy

[mentalslavery]

7. Yes, but not the elimination of private property or private business

Socialism, democratic socialism, is a mixed market economy. That is what you have posted. You do not understand what you have written

[VanillaRhapsody]

8. It says it right there in black and white....

No Capitalism and Social ownership of the means of production.....

That is why like Europe I am a Social Democrat....I want a balance between Labor and Capital...

[mentalslavery]

9. Your in over your head here

what you have written does not say that...you are not understanding a complex debate. And what you are saying is a straw man because no society has eliminated private ownership (or capitalism)-private ownership is marginally different than capitalism...so you need to decide what you are concerned about. You are conflating two issues. The Green bay packers represent the social ownership of the means of production. Alaskan oil revenue and profit sharing represents the social ownership of the means of production. Its not all capitalism Vs. all socialism.


Additionally, you originally said you were against socialism because you favor private ownership. Now, you are discussing capitalism, which is predicated off private ownership, but different. So, you need to find clarity in your position here.

Finally, we all know bernie is not trying to eliminate private ownership or capitalism....which is the only reason this debate is relevant... and it is nice that you have become interested in the topic...but it is more complex than you understand and what you have written is not what you think it says.

There are many assumptions understood in the word capitalism and social democracy and socialism because the above is written for those who are familiar with the debate.

[VanillaRhapsody]

10. Oh no I am not

Socialists ..Democratic or not oppose ALL Capitalism....that is why Europe and the Netherlands are all Social Democracies....NOT Democratic Socialist States...

Ask THEM.

Bernie has NEVER called himself a Social Democrat....not even once.....but he did call himself a Socialist 6 yrs ago....not a Socialist Democrat even....A full on Socialist....claiming to be the ONLY one in the Senate...

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/sanders-socialist-successes

[mentalslavery]

11. you cant be serious

your in way over ur head. You read a couple things on socialism and social democracies and now you think you know what your talking about....


So bernie is opposed to all capitalism.....HAAAA... I guess when he will come and take all your stuff and no one will have money and business will fail... and we will all be in socialistic bread LINES!!!!!


Good talking to you....im totally voting hill now....She loves labor!!!!

[VanillaRhapsody]

13. I am very serious....

THAT is why Bernie had to finally say he was a Democrat in New Hampshire yesterday.....he was a Socialist not a Democrat....

I gave you a link where he specifically said so on his official Senate website 6 yrs ago....during Obama's presidency for reference...

Bernie has had 40 yrs to say I am a Socialist Democrat.....if he didn't have an issue with the existence of Capitalism.....but instead he chose to never ever call himself a Socialist Democrat.....his perogative....and I do believe he is a very smart man and knows these terms and distinctions quite well....Yesterday....he was finally forced to become one of us....it was that or the campaign was over

[Hydra]

14. Had a similar "discussion" with that one a few days ago

Very scary red baity and all that. Must have gotten talking points sent to them.

[mentalslavery]

15. Yeah, and you know it is a really ignorant tactic

to come off like that. Sanders might have weakness's, but to create straw men that can easily be torn down makes me question whether one is really interested in a debate or merely thinks people here are easily fooled. You gotta bring it strong here, lots of people know policy, politics, and what-not!

[VanillaRhapsody]

16. Nothing straw about...

Either you believe he knows what he is himself saying....or yoi are claiming he doesnt know WTF he is talking about....its up to you...

[VanillaRhapsody]

17. Its not redbait...I did not say communist

And I gave the definition FROM Democratic Socialists

Either he knows what he is calling himself or he is ignorant....you decide.

[MADem]

2. I think that person is making fun of the OP -- who quotes a socialist website.

That is the socialist website that takes Sanders to task on a regular basis.

[OnyxCollie]

6. Socialism doesn't go well

with authoritarianism.

[Kalidurga]

12. Right wing talking points?

Um I don't think so those look like very far left wing concerns. So whatever. I didn't really check out the link in the OP so I dunno about that site.