Found some 60-70 year old negatives and 8mm film!

[csziggy]

Some stuff from my Dad that he had tucked away in his dresser. None of us ever even knew he had a 8mm camera - but the camera was in the drawer, too. There might still be some unexposed/undeveloped film in the camera, but that will have to wait for my next trip down.

The 8mm film is going to a local camera place that has the equipment to scan frame by frame, clean the images up and put onto DVDs. This stuff is in terrible condition since it was stored badly for decades in a Florida house with no air conditioning. I'll discuss it with the technicians, but if they can get anything off of the film it will be a gain since no one alive has ever seen it before.

So far I have been able to get three rolls of 35mm negatives uncurled and into negative pages. It's far too curled to scan, so I am weighting the pages to flatten the film and hoping I can work with them in the future. What I can see of the images seem to be of my older sister as a baby in 1946, so we're talking nearly 70 year old negatives! I can identify some frames from the old prints we have of her as a baby - but we only have one or two of the images from that roll of film so it will be exciting to see what other pictures are on there.

The rest of the negatives are too tightly coiled to uncurl. I'm taking them to the camera place, too. Even though I have the technology to scan them, I don't have the equipment or supplies to uncurl them. I've researched on the internet suggestions for how to uncurl old film, but I think I will be better off letting the professionals work with this stuff. Even if all they do is get it flat enough for me to scan, that will make me happy.

One roll may be old nitrate film - it is very brittle and the edges are disintegrating. I'm scared to touch that one again.

There were several rolls of never opened film, both 35mm and some called Panchromatic on fairly wide spools. I'm not sure what size film that is. And there are also come rolls of each that seem to have been exposed but never developed. I'll see if I can get them developed and see if there is anything on them.

Another clue as to the possible dates of some of these things - under the 8mm reels were a lot of clippings of a trip my Dad as a Boy Scout took to the 1939 World's Fair. His entire troop and a Sea Scout troop traveled to Jacksonville, Florida, took a Coast Guard vessel to New York, arriving just as a German ship was escorted out of New York Harbor. This was just after Germany invaded Poland and Germany and the US broke off diplomatic ties. My Dad told us that out to sea the Scouts could see other ships waiting to escort the German one out of US waters.

A last clue is that none of this stuff seems to date to as recent as when I was born (1952). That year Dad started his own business and the family had to move out of the company owned mine town and into a house of their own. I suspect the birth of a third child on top of all of that stressed his finances and time so he didn't have money to develop the film or continue his photography.

[raven mad]

1. We have some 8 mm movies that out local University now has in their archives -

the early days of my father and mother-in-law in the Fairbanks area.

Great discovery! The film is probably still able to develop; I had some old, old film of my mom's about 20 years ago that, at that time, was over 40 years old, and it came out fine.

[csziggy]

3. The hard part may be finding a lab to process the film

For instance, if there is 8mm film in the camera that has been exposed (the counter is at 25 feet), there is no where local that can do it. The place I talked to suggested Seattle Filmworks. I hate the idea of sending off the film though. I'm going to check in the Tampa and Orlando areas - both are closer to Mom's house where the camera is and are larger metropolitan areas than Tallahassee.

Some of the 35 mm rolls are off brands - one I remember is Ideal. I've never heard of it and a quick internet search doesn't come up with it. So I'm not sure anyone will know what process to use.

But if we can find the right lab, I have hope. When my husband was in college, his Dad let him use an old film pack camera for a class. When he started to load it he found a film pack that had probably been in the camera for 40-50 years. As part of the class he developed it and found a picture of an island, probably in some Minnesota lake.

He thinks that camera may have been one his great grandfather Thomas Sadler Roberts used for taking pictures of birds. Roberts is famous as the father of Minnesota ornithology and pioneered photographing birds. He wrote an article on photographing birds for "Bird-Lore" which later became Audobon magazine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audubon_%28magazine%29).

[alfredo]

9. Terrific find. Found his picture

and this of his family



http://blog.lib.umn.edu/uar/naturalhistorymn/2013/07/extreme-sports-1900.html

[csziggy]

12. Yes - that is Thomas! My husband's brother looks amazingly like him

There is a great book about Thomas Sadler Roberts: 'A Love Affair With Birds' by Sue Leaf. She got many photos and a lot of family history from my MIL and comments in her introduction about the resemblance. But most of Dr. Roberts' papers and photo collection were given to the University of Minnesota rather than kept in the family - as it should have been.

The family has continued the interest in bird watching - my husband's parents were among the first members of the Audobon Society in Panama City, Florida, and he grew up bird watching. He and I share the activity since I used to do it with my great aunt while I was growing up.

[alfredo]

13. It seems you have a rich family history.

[csziggy]

14. Both my side and my husband's have saved lots of stuff

And members have been into genealogy for decades. We joke that my family never throws anything away - we have ledgers from my great grandfather both for his hardware store in Escanaba and for their home. Last year I found a small wallet with a little notebook in it that had notes about "money I took from home when I left 5 September 1812."

But no one has sorted this stuff or taken the time to preserve it. Some stuff we know that had been saved has been lost - a letter that went with a secretary made in the 1830s was chewed up by mice. That letter was from the man who had it commissioned to the newly wedded couple that owned it and passed it down in their family, so it was valuable provenance as well as a piece of history. The letter was still in existence in the 1950s when my grandmother bought the secretary from the original family but was lost since.

So I'm trying to archive and preserve as much as I can. Eventually I will begin working to donate the items to appropriate locations since no one in the family has the space or inclination to store it all.

[alfredo]

15. My family wouldn't talk about our history. You are lucky to have such documentation

We do have one relative of note, Uncle Albert the composer/musician/publisher.

He also composed ragtime under another name. This song is quite popular at Ragtime competitions. It is also played at Disneyland.

I like this one:

My sister and I were able to get some music scholars to see if Albert and Mark were the same person. They did forensic research on the music and found enough similarities to rewrite American music history. In Europe they have agreed on the findings, though one scholar insists that Mark Janza is actually uncle Albert's wife.

[raven mad]

10. You should be able to find a competent lab in Orlando -

even check with the Disney people. We were lucky; the 8 mm was of interest to UAF (University of Alaska, Fairbanks) so they did the process for us, and gave us copies on VHS and DVD!

[csziggy]

11. I'm going to call the Florida Archives

Some of the pictures they scanned from my grandparents' photo album are in their Florida Memory Photographic Collection. My parents provided them with a lot of historic images from the Bartow area and also obtained copies of many for the Polk County Historical Quarterly during the years Mom edited the publication.

If any of these pictures or movies include either phosphate mining or any of the old company mine towns that have been destroyed, they will love to have copies of the images. At the very least they can advise me on where to get the film processed or the 8mm copied. I don't think they have the technology or the budget to do either for me without knowing what is on them.

[jmowreader]

16. Try here

http://www.filmrescue.com

They can develop nearly anything, so try them.

As to your curly film, try this: get a 35mm film canister for each curled roll. Roll the film opposite the direction of curl, stick it in a canister, put the lid on, set in a warm environment, and leave it alone for three to six months.

[csziggy]

17. Thanks for the reference to Film Rescue!

I'll check them out.

I'm not sure if I can unroll the curled film at all. I spoke to one person at the Florida Photographic Archives and she recommended soaking it (in warm water?) then hanging with a weight - but until one of the experts looks at the film and verifies for me that it is safe with the rolls I have, they will not see any liquids.

The one really curled roll I attempted to unwind is so tightly curled I can't get it unwound so rolling the other way around will be impossible. Since my scanner needs 6 frame strips, I am hoping to get segments flat enough to put into negative storage pages, weight them for a few months and then see if I can get them into the negative carrier to scan.

I did get three loosely coiled rolls cut and into storage pages and even after just a couple of days they seem flatter.

The worst rolls were very tightly coiled and some had the remains of rubber bands still attached. They were not in any kind of film can - but since I read that old film out-gasses stuff that can harm the film that could be an advantage. The several rolls that are in metal film cans I've left alone except for one roll that is very brittle. I suspect that might be on a nitrate base. I did not want to attempt re-rolling it to go back in its original metal canister but I did get it into a plastic one.

I'm not in a huge hurry - this film has sat for so long I can take some months to figure out how best to handle it!

[jmowreader]

18. Once the expert verifies it's safe, don't try it yourself

What I would do - and what I recommend you not do personally - is to soak the film in a solution of film wetting agent like Kodak Photo-Flo for about a month to let the fluid soak all the way through the emulsion, then hang the film in a dust-free drying cabinet with a heavy weight at the bottom until it's bone-dry before cutting and sleeving it.

The one roll that is very brittle may or may not be nitrate; cellulose acetate films also suffered from embrittlement. One way to tell without trying to set some of it on fire is to smell it. If you smell vinegar, it's not nitrate.

My best advice to you: make friends with the manager of the best museum in your area.

[csziggy]

19. I am very reluctant to try it myself

Since I have never developed film, don't have a dust free area to work in, and don't have any of the supplies.

I left a message for the head of the Florida Photographic Archives. Since my family has donated lots of pictures for their Florida Memory project and I have a family journal he really wants to scan (and wants me to donate) he will probably help me if he can. The problem is that with the last three Republican governors, all have cut back funds for the Archives (Jeb Bush wanted to eliminate it altogether) so they don't have as much money or time to help citizens with their archival projects.

Once that brittle roll is in the plastic film can for a week or more, I'll smell it. It had an odor when I opened the film can but I didn't note what it smelled like. It's just a completely different feel than the other rolls. If it is the roll that I think it is I have one or two prints from it that are both black and white. And if it is that roll, the Photo Archives will want copies - although my Dad was concentrating on taking pictures of my oldest sister, the background is of a phosphate company town that no longer exists.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. How exciting for you, my dear csziggy!

What an amazing find! I sure hope the technicians can do their magic and produce some pictures for you.

I had a faintly similar experience when I came into possession of my dad's digital camera last year, after he'd died. There were pictures on it! I retrieved them and was so happy!

I gave the camera to my daughter and I had left the pictures intact, so she could have them too. She was thrilled! Not nearly as exciting as your find, but enough that I can really understand how happy you are!

[csziggy]

5. This is great fun - and such a mystery

For one thing, Mom said in their almost 68 years of marriage she never looked in his dresser. Even after he died she didn't open the drawers!

All these "new" old things were found since the house was flooded and my sister had to empty the bedrooms and some closets. While it was a panic at the time, it has been a bit of a blessing. Mom never went through some of these closets since they moved in there in 1978. Dad put stuff in the closets and she just left them alone.

We've been looking for excuses to go through stuff and the flood let it happen. Another thing I found this last trip was Mom and Dad's Navy service records! Even more information about their lives they didn't share with us, LOL.

[Curmudgeoness]

4. Odd treasures in the strangest places.

This sounds like a great find. I have so few pictures of my parents in the early days, I would love to find something like this.

[csziggy]

6. We've got lots of pictures, but only of some time periods

Though my sister has found others. For instance, we didn't know much about Mom's time as a Navy Nurse. My sister found envelopes of pictures that show Virginia Beach, Santa Marguerita Ranch, and Aiea Heights Hospital. When she showed them to Mom, Mom told us things about her time in the Navy she had never talked about. We had never known she was among the first nurses stationed at Santa Marguerita Ranch which became Camp Pendleton!

I scanned all those pictures and put them in a notebook along with as many other momentos from her service. Now with her service records, we can assign dates to the time periods of the photos.

I've become the family archivist so I am trying to preserve as much as possible and get as much in coherent order as possible. I'm not sure if I would rather have less information or more!

[Curmudgeoness]

7. More information.

I realize that the more you have, the harder your "job" or archivist will be. But not having much information leaves so many gaps in my understanding of my parents and their families. I have one photo of my mom as a child, one photo of my father as a child, one photo of my parents when they got married, one photo of my parents with my brother as a baby. And nothing until much later. We were not a family to have cameras.

[alfredo]

8. Great story. I can't wait to see how the images turn out.

[fizzgig]

20. what a wonderful find

please keep us posted.