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Judi Lynn

(160,530 posts)
Tue Feb 28, 2023, 03:05 AM Feb 2023

Bill to define sex in state law advances to Senate floor

Tom Kuglin 2 hrs ago



Sen. Carl Glimm, R-Kila.

THOM BRIDGE, Independent Record

Tom Kuglin
ASenate committee late Monday night gave approval to a bill that would define sex in state law.

Sen. Carl Glimm, R-Kila, brought Senate Bill 458 to the Senate Public Health, Welfare and Safety Committee that same night. The bill drew several proponents who said the legislation is about basic biology and bringing fairness to women’s sports, but an onslaught of opponents said the bill would effectively erase people who did not fit within the definition, whether due to gender identity or for medical reasons.

The bill now moves to the full Senate for consideration and needs to clear the chamber by Friday to meet a procedural deadline. Before the committee passed the bill, all Republicans voted to add a severability clause, meaning if part of it is found invalid, other parts would remain standing. Sen. Jen Gross, a Billings Democrat, also brought a motion to table the bill, but committee chair Sen. Tom McGillvray, of Billings, declined to allow that.

The legislation offers the definition of sex as “determined by the biological indication of male or female, including sex chromosomes, gonads, and nonambiguous internal and external genitalia present at birth, without regard to an individual's psychological, chosen, or subjective experience of gender.” The 60-page bill then goes on to touch on sections of law that would reference that definition, including insurance, athletics and legal documents such as marriage licenses.

Glimm and other supporters said that while “sex” and “gender” may have once been considered synonymous terms, that is no longer the case.

More:
https://helenair.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/bill-to-define-sex-in-state-law-advances-to-senate-floor/article_ad517b3f-e9df-5c41-b8fa-5cf5288c4470.html

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Bill to define sex in state law advances to Senate floor (Original Post) Judi Lynn Feb 2023 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author Hugh_Lebowski Feb 2023 #1
You honestly believe dpibel Feb 2023 #2
Naw I didn't really mean that ... Hugh_Lebowski Feb 2023 #3
Doctors do not need legal recognition of your chromosomes Ms. Toad Feb 2023 #6
Thank you! vercetti2021 Mar 2023 #7
Sorry didn't realize the medical aspect was such a sensitive topic Hugh_Lebowski Mar 2023 #8
See my reply to Vercetti above Hugh_Lebowski Mar 2023 #9
Thank you for the apology and the delete. Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #11
Great advice and valid points, thanks for that. You're 100% right ... Hugh_Lebowski Mar 2023 #12
2 years NED, and counting! Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #13
Doesn't have any reason for the bill except hate. sinkingfeeling Feb 2023 #4
He looks rather creepy. twodogsbarking Feb 2023 #5
Would still need an Intersex catagory IbogaProject Mar 2023 #10

Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
3. Naw I didn't really mean that ...
Tue Feb 28, 2023, 03:44 AM
Feb 2023

It's much more of a 'a stopped clock is right twice a day' kind of point.

Ms. Toad

(34,072 posts)
6. Doctors do not need legal recognition of your chromosomes
Tue Feb 28, 2023, 10:58 PM
Feb 2023

to provide medically appropriate treatment.

Suggesting they cannot treat you properly without legal recognition of your chromosomes is trans-hostile, and has no place on DU.

vercetti2021

(10,156 posts)
7. Thank you!
Wed Mar 1, 2023, 06:32 AM
Mar 2023

Ingrid saw this and let me know. I'm so fucking tired of this shit. My doctor knows I'm trans and she is fully supportive of me and is respectful. This shit has no place on DU, but it's worded so it doesn't break a rule.

 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
8. Sorry didn't realize the medical aspect was such a sensitive topic
Wed Mar 1, 2023, 09:12 AM
Mar 2023

I'm very trans-friendly, and have a friend and co-worker I shared an office with 8 hours/day the whole time they were transitioning, which was like 2 years.

Direct quotes from a slack chat I had with Krista a month ago when she came back to work with us on contract:

"once i transitioned and life started making sense, the rest of everything in my head (mostly) just fell into place

i'm glad you were there and helping me out be being normal and not getting weirded out

that helped more than i could explain in an hour or two
(snip)
but having you around at work was very comforting and stabilizing, and i needed that"


I was thinking more of the circumstance where you're not at 'your doctor', perhaps due to incapacitation or bad accident you're at an ER type of thing.

I only said that out of concern for your care, not for the reasons this asshole is proposing this for. After further thought on it, if it's in your medical records, that's going to provide for the only concern *I* have in this regard at least in the vast majority of plausible situations.

My apologies in any case. I'm in no-way transphobic and please believe I'm on your side.
 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
9. See my reply to Vercetti above
Wed Mar 1, 2023, 09:30 AM
Mar 2023

I get the point, and self-deleted. Apologies, it came out differently than I meant it.

I'm here to learn. I mean, I'm not trans and don't have a trans child, and I don't know everything about the subject. You teach me stuff often Ms. Toad, and I appreciate that.

Ms. Toad

(34,072 posts)
11. Thank you for the apology and the delete.
Wed Mar 1, 2023, 05:54 PM
Mar 2023

Just to elaboorate a bit more. The sensitive issue is supporting legal or social distinctions based on gender assigned at birth, or chromosomes - and rationalizing it by suggestion that there is a medical need for it (not medical care, specifically). Those opposing LGBT rights are very good at making arguments that pull in even people who would like to be supportive.

Before same gender marriage was recognized, out of the blue I had friends who started saying that we should create a separate legal status because they didn't believe that faith communities would be forced to marry same gender couples, which they believed would happen if same gender marriages were legally recognized. They missed two things:

(1) faith communities are never forced couples who don't met the criteria set up by that particular community, and in fact already routinely refuse to marry mixed gender couples (e.g. couples who aren't members of their church, divorced catholics, etc.). Making same gender marriage legal will no more force faith communities to marry same gender couples than permitting remarriage after divorce forces Catholics to marry divorced parishioners now.

(2) the initial source of the "concern" came from people who don't want us married in the first place - and they crafted a message which would pull in a lot of folks who otherwise want to be supportive.

The same is true here.

As to #2, the source of the proposed law is obviously trans-hostile.

As to #1, All sorts of invisible things impact optimal medical care. This is especially true in emergency situation, when you are being treated by a doctor with whom you are unable to communicate. But I can easily think of dozens of invisible things which are more critical for an emergency doctor to know than chromosomes (medicines - narcotics, blood thinners; conditions - diabetes, allergies,etc.) The reality is that emergency doctors work all of the time with incomplete information - sometimes hidden information that can even be life-threatening. Why legislate mandatory legal recognition of one piece of hidden information that might influence your care in the very rare circumstance when you cannot communicate that information to the doctor, but not others?

As to ongoing health care relationships - I encourage everyone to share openly with their doctors about everything that might influence their health care (supplements/alternative medical care, drug and alcohol use, health conditions, etc.). Not everyone chooses to be so open with their doctors. It's a choice. Again - why mandate legal recognition of one piece of information it might be helpful for your doctor to know, but not others?

As an ally, I'd encourage a couple of things:

1. If it's a law being sponsored by people who are trying to kill us/legislate our lives out of existence/make our lives illegal - assume it is evil. It probalby is. Even if you can think of some rationale for it.

2. Listen lots - particularly to those whose lives are being legislated - before weighing in.

3. If you still truly believe there are valid reasons for the law, ask yourself are there other circumstances that raise similar concerns which are not being legislated. Then ask yourself why this one.

4. Finally - talk to your trans friends (if you the kind of relationship with them in which they are willing to help you learn)

 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
12. Great advice and valid points, thanks for that. You're 100% right ...
Wed Mar 1, 2023, 06:30 PM
Mar 2023

And I do have people to ask about stuff with, that being Krista who've I've known 15 years, or Ashley, cashier at the Walgreen who I see every other day or so for the past couple years, and with whom I try to include some kind of gender affirming comment to every time I see her, which I know she appreciates (she's literally told me so). My Walgreen's account shows my name as being 'Dude' (long story) so she always makes it a point to say 'Dude' to me, and I call her 'Missy' ... cause she's probably 1/2 my age. She'd tell me if she didn't like it.

Anyways, I'll try to do better. I'm really only being a Nervous Nellie about the idea of someone erasing all vestiges of their chromosomal 'sex' from all records because I honestly wonder if that could come back to hurt them in an emergency sitch, but you're right ... there's a lot more likely dangers that might be avoidable, and nobody tries to legislate those away.

I sometimes wonder if the real money behind the transphobic legislation we're seeing ... isn't Big Insurance. Both Health, and Life. Logically, Insurance Companies want this subject to be cut and dry. I think ambiguity ... fucks with their business model and algorithms and such. They, perhaps above all other large entities, probably hate the idea behind people altering records of their sex when they transition. I'd not be surprised if they aren't behind these kinds of laws in a similar way Big Petroleum is behind efforts to deny climate change.

Anyways ... peace to you and yours, and I'm pulling for you with the sarcoma thing

Ms. Toad

(34,072 posts)
13. 2 years NED, and counting!
Thu Mar 2, 2023, 05:44 PM
Mar 2023

As to insurance - pretty sure insurance isn't driving the legislation. The attacks are way too emotional to be driven by insurance. Insurance works behind the scenes with money, assistance in drafting legislation, etc. It doesn't murder people, cast them out of families, etc.

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