An update to my "I fully expect to get hides...for annoying Sanders supporters" OP

[stevenleser]

here http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=17828

If you haven't seen it yet, Bravenak received a letter via US mail that was a very creepy stalking letter http://www.democraticunderground.com/118724424

and now several African American DUers have received timeouts, 1StrongblackMan and KMOD and I think one or two others for little more than annoying Bernie supporters and for posts in the AA group no less which should have been a safe haven for discussing African American issues.

I think we can see how the group that currently enjoys 85% support at DU is handling the power of being able to dominate jury results.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
- John Dalberg-Acton, 1st Baron Acton

[wendylaroux]

1. no one knows who sent it.--nt

[wendylaroux]

5. very true,there is a huge

amount of alert stalking.I just can't see a true Bernie or Hillary supporter doing this.I really can't.
So gd disturbing and scary to think it is so easy to find out where anyone lives.

[SidDithers]

6. Post was alerted...

Will edit in jury results when they come in.

Oh FFS:

On Thu Sep 10, 2015, 08:28 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

While that is true, it doesn't explain away the alert stalking.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=18444

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Sorry but accusing jury members of being part of an 'alert-stalking' conspiracy, or being freepers is just ridiculous...and totally unwarranted..

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Sep 10, 2015, 08:41 AM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Get real, Steve. I never took you to be one to embrace CTs like that.

Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't see any TOS violation
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't have a problem with this. Just this DU'ers personal observation. Leave it.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Looks like more alert stalking in safe haven groups. Hey, alerter, how about just staying out of the Safe Haven groups, if you don't like what they're posting.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Lay off the non-stop attacks and finger pointing at those DUers/Dems that don't support your candidate...focus on your candidate's positive. I've runout of patience with the negativity. Hide.

And the alert and hide proves your point.

Sid

[stevenleser]

7. Gosh, I'm so shocked.

and obviously the irony of alerting on a post that is talking about alert stalking was lost on the alerter.

Congrats to the alerter and the four jurors for proving my point!

The way I see it, since 85% of DUers are pro-Sanders, meaning 6 of every 7 jurors seated on each alert are Sanders supporters on average, so based on that I had two Sanders supporters voting that my post was not hide-worthy, so as far as I am concerned the post was vindicated.

[SidDithers]

8. And note the dishonest alert...

No where did you accuse jury members of anything.

Your entier post was about bad alerts made by an alerter.

And yet the alerter said: "Sorry but accusing jury members of being part of an 'alert-stalking' conspiracy, or being freepers is just ridiculous...and totally unwarranted.. "



Sid

[PoutrageFatigue]

34. Yeah, not so much...

Lesser's ENTIRE post was an attack on jury members as being RW infiltrators or freepers or part of a conspiracy...

Because NO-ONE alerts on a post because they're alert-worthy right? Nope....therefore there MUST be a conspiracy...

[Cha]

36. Nothing the OP said about the jury system was untrue. It's a fact.. the board is 85% BS supporters

and the jury pool is loaded.

Of course there are valid alerts but that doesn't mean the system isn't abused. So you can put away your little hat.

This is Hillary's Group.. we here to talk about what interests us. For Hillary Supporters.

[tblue37]

50. Steve, FYI--and also for others here in the Hillary group, I used to frequently refuse

jury service because to do it properly I feel I must read all posts in the thread or subthread leading up to the post that was alerted on. I am busy, so I often do not have that kind of time to easily spare.

But after serving on a number of ridiculous alerts on posts for certain high-profile DU members who are also frequently subjected to undisguised bullying that does *not* end up getting hidden, I realized that while the admins are probably correct to claim that alert stalking and jury bias are generally not a problem on DU, the fact that such things do not affect most members or most posts or most alerts and juries doesn't mean that they don't affect certain specific members or certain specific topics.

I realized after several truly absurd alerts that alert stalking does happen, but since it is quite "localized," it won't show up in a general analysis of all alerts on the whole site for a limited amount of time.

After realizing that some DUers were being bullied and some topics were being slyly censored by such means, I realized that I owe it to the DU community and especially to those who are being bullied to agree to jury duty every time I am asked, unless it really is impossible to spare the time.

My inclination is toward free-wheeling discussion, not suppression of ideas one disagrees with, so I enter jury duty with a bias against hiding. If the post clearly violates the TOS, I vote to hide, and if it is a personal attack on someone I also vote to hide.

But if it just expresses an opinion the alerter dislikes, no hide.

Your hidden post in this thread was clearly not hide worthy, and the hide and some of the excuses for hiding are ridiculous.

BTW, I am a Bernie supporter. If Hillary is nominated, I will support her wholeheartedly, but I hope Bernie wins the primary (though I honestly doubt that he will).

The nastiness you see from Bernie supporters is coming from a small group of aggressive people, not from most of us, so I wish you would not assume we are generally like that--or that Bernie himself is to blame for the fact that some of his supporters are jackasses.

A small number of Hillary's supporters act nasty to Bernie's supporters, too, but I know perfectly well that they do not represent the general group or Hillary herself.

These nasty, aggressive people on both sides are the sort of people who always use their "cause" as a weapon against others and as a justification for their anger and bullying. Every good cause has obnoxious (or even vicious) supporters whom reasonable advocates are embarrassed to be associated with.

I also believe that at least some of the worst behavior is actually a manifestation not of genuine support but rather of Rove style ratf***ing or Limbaugh stle Operation Chaos. Even worse, I suspect that the "deep state," including a certain element in the intelligence community, that serves the wealthiest and most powerful people and institutions (especially the MIC) could easily be doing everything they can to sow discord to divide any movement trying to put into office individuals who might act to curb their power.

We who genuinely support Bernie or Hillary need to keep in mind that despite our disagreements, we are ultimately on the same side, so we must not try to destroy the other candidate or alienate her/his supporters, because we will all need to work together to prevent a wholly owned GOP puppet candidate from becoming POTUS.

[Lisa D]

9. How did that post get hidden?

Last edited Fri Sep 11, 2015, 08:45 AM - Edit history (1)

Seriously? I've seen a post calling Hillary supporters "zimmermans" that didn't get hidden. Another post called a DU member a "Race Nagger" and that post wasn't hidden. But Steve's safe haven post got a hide?

Yeah, those accusations of alert-stalking are just so ridiculous

[mcar]

14. I was the alerter on the "zimmermans" post

My first alert in 13 years here. In my alert I noted that it was disgraceful to compare HRC supporters to a child murderer.

Jury voted 7-0 to leave. And, one of the jurors scolded me for calling Zimmerman a child murderer.

Figure that out, if you can.

[Lisa D]

15. It's really unbelievable.

But I guess anything goes for some "Democrats".

And Trayvon WAS a child. Anyone saying otherwise is a.....fill-in-the-blank.

[BooScout]

11. they won't stop....

Like I said....even this group isn't safe.

[BooScout]

4. some of us have a pretty good idea. n/t

[Cha]

39. That's right.. no one knows who sent it. Just "GO BERNIE!!!" at the end and warning Bravenak

that she better STFU

"We grew tired of your race baiting bullshit against the only candidate who actually cares about the plight of minorities and the 99%. You and your fucking lying "I really like Bernie" bullshit. So you got 4 hides in one day. You deserved more.

When you come off suspension, you keep running your fucking mouth, guaranteed you're going to get alerted on and suspended again. We'll make a point of it. There's a hell of a lot more of us than of you. So I suggest you dial it back a whole fucking bunch.

GO BERNIE!!!"

Mr Citizen
DU Member

1StrongBlackMan http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=24424

I know a Hillary supporter doesn't think that BS is the only candidate who cares about Minorities. And, all the Hill supporters I know.. knew that Bravenak was a Bernie supporter before that Saturday at Netroots Nation when #BlackLivesMatter Activists Protested.. and the internet exploded with accusations and CT towards the #BLM Activists from Bernie supporters.

It sickened her.. and she was trying to tell them to stop.. it wasn't working but too many of them doubled down all in the name of their candidate.

[wendylaroux]

40. I don't believe it was

a Bernie supporter,or,as someone else said,a Hillary supporter.Just a crazy ass stalker troll
who needs to be found and dealt with.

[Cha]

41. It sounds like a BS supporter to me.. although a very off the cliff and into the abyss one and

no way was it a Hill supporter. We're too busy looking out for our candidate.

[TheBlackAdder]

43. As someone who is against KXL, the image stikes me as slightly ironic in nature.

.


Certain Democratic candidates support KXL, and other do not.

There seems to be a conflict using that image.


.

[Cha]

44. I'm here to support Bravenak and against Alert Stalking.. stop trying to ignorantly hijack this

thread.

This is for Hillary Supporters. either you do or you're disrupting.

[ronnykmarshall]

51. "We'll make a point of it"

Jeeze how boil your bunny is that?

[BooScout]

2. I've seen it...

I no longer feel safe in GDP and not really here in this group either. If anyone wants a couple of safe places to hang out please pm me.

Stalking Bravenak through the US mail was the last straw for me.

[redwitch]

12. Me too.

Appalled the bravenak got that message through the US mail. WTF????

[Tommy2Tone]

10. Daily Kos is just as bad

It seems you can't say anything about Bernie or his supporters without a jury trial.

[Hiraeth]

13. KMOD is AA?

[BooScout]

17. what difference does it make?

Why are you asking?

[Hiraeth]

19. Because she is not.

[BooScout]

20. So it's not ok for someone to be in support of a POC

..who is being stalked? And fwiw, you are in the Hillary group so why are you here, because using your logic, you are not a Hillary supporter.

[Hiraeth]

21. I never said any of that. I asked one question and you give me attitude. How old are you?

[BooScout]

22. ...

byeeeeeeeeee

[Hiraeth]

23. cute.

[BooScout]

24. ...

[leftofcool]

32. Actually you are not and KMOD's ethnic background is not your business.

[Thinkingabout]

16. To take stalking to the point of obtaining a postal address to send a letter is much too far.

I know the postal department has been notified, this is terrible, it does not matter who sent Bravenak a letter via USPS, is very serious business. It appears whoever sent this letter has some knowledge of DU, I do not think I have read in the TOS where stalking via USPS is allowed. I wonder if the stalking on DU has gotten out of control.

[Gothmog]

18. The alert stalking is getting out of hand

[Goblinmonger]

25. I don't think they got a time out for

"little more than annoying Bernie supporters."

Those posts were over the top. A jury of their peers agreed. Or do you somehow think that Bernie supporters can somehow manipulate the juries to their control. I mean, Skinner is a Hillary supporter. Or is he just a Bernie supporter in disguise who rigs this site to get Hilary supporters hidden?

[BooScout]

27. you are in the HILLARY group

[Goblinmonger]

28. Yeah, I know.

I said nothing about Hilary. Just that those posts weren't innocent and to believe what the OP is saying takes a lot of conspiracy pills. Occam's Razor and all that. Maybe they got 5 hides because their posts were over the top and not because Bernie supporters control DU.

Or, said another way, I don't they should (or did) get 5 hides because they support Clinton and don't like Sanders. They should get 5 hides because those 5 posts were kind of nasty regardless of who they support.

[BooScout]

29. ...

[Cha]

48. Yeah, like "BYE".

[Cha]

49. It doesn't matter if you said "anything about HIllary".. this is for Hillary Supporters..so you're

either supporting her or you're here to disrupt.

You just don't get to insert yourself into the conversation and diss our members and members of the AA Group.

[upaloopa]

31. There is no such thing as "a jury of their peers"

at this time. I am sick of the lying bull shit.
I was stalked twice and will probably will be again. Jury of my peers

[Cha]

35. The board is "85%" BS supporters.. so a "jury of their peers" is somewhat disingenuous..

they aren't my peers.

And, yes you have that right.. Skinner is a Hillary supporter but what the hell does that have to do with the jury pool being 85% BS supporters?

[ronnykmarshall]

52. "Jury of their peers"??

Oh stop! Oh my! You're KILLING ME! Oh my sides! I'm laughing so much! Oh the humor!

[William769]

26. Kick & highly recommended!

[BooScout]

30. + 1000

Thank you!

[AgingAmerican]

33. Time outs are earned

Crying about them is pathetic, IMHO.

[Cha]

37. The OP is stating a fact.. that too many don't want to see discussed.. too damn bad.

[William769]

38. Theres going to be a lot of crying come Super Tuesday!

While Hillary Clinton supporters are celebrating Hillary securing the Democratic nomination.

[workinclasszero]

42. You are so right

I believe.

[Cha]

45. That was a bogus hide, Steven.. let me guess.. BS supporters didn't want you to be able to discuss

anything negatively relating to them?!

Quelle fucking Surprise!

See, I don't alert.. except if I see something so egregious it has to be alerted on. That's the difference between them and me. I don't try to shut them down.

[Jamaal510]

46. They're out of control.

Whether it's DU, Dkos, Twitter, or one of the rallies, a lot of them have acted childish and unfair. I've seen misinformation from their side about various popular Democrats, and they get mad at other people just for mere disagreements. I never thought I'd say this, but if BS continues to act like nothing is going on and do nothing to make the culprits in his camp come to their senses, then he deserves to lose the primaries in blowout fashion. I say this as someone who strongly thought about voting for him at one point. It's not exactly leadership or presidential material to claim that you want to run a positive campaign, yet do nothing as much of your supporters act contrary to that message. I'll never forget about all of this behavior coming from alleged progressives. I was naive and used to think it was just unique to RWers, but nope. Like other posters, I still hang around on this site, but it's maddening to see many of my favorite posters get put on timeout, so I have started posting on another progressive forum more often that has actual moderating and runs a tighter ship.

[Cha]

47. I know you use to be a Bernie supporter, Jamaal.. like Bravenak.. at least you were strongly

leaning his way.. way back before Netroots Nation happened.

The ones who have been acting like this must think they're Teflon and invincible.. and there will be no repercussions from their online actions.

I think they're in for a rude awakening.

"Like other posters, I still hang around on this site, but it's maddening to see many of my favorite posters get put on timeout, so I have started posting on another progressive forum more often that has actual moderating and runs a tighter ship."

Please PM the site, Jamaal