Hillary Clinton
Related: About this forumThe left’s absurd Hillary hate: Why this ridiculous anti-Clinton crusade needs to stop (HRC GROUP)
Written by a Sanders supporter
http://www.salon.com/2015/12/05/the_ridiculous_left_wing_crusade_against_hillary_clinton_needs_to_stop/
The media coverage of Hillary Clinton is a lesson in paradox: Shes the most admired woman in America, but no one is excited about her presidential campaign. Shes inevitable, but she cant win an election. And even when she wins a debate, she still lost it.
This might seem like an indication of what we already know that the former secretary of state is an extremely polarizing candidate, whose very name is treated as a curse word or a reason to break out the Holy Water during the Republican presidential debates. The New York Times Mark Leibovitch wrote earlier this year that divisive has become almost associated with her very name: Clinton has worn the polarizing badge more than any other politician since the word came into its unfortunate vogue. But as Leibovitch argued, Hillarys status as a divider is less a product of her politics than our own.
Leibovitch compared the phenomenon to Bush derangement syndrome, a term coined by Charles Krauthammer to describe the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency nay t he very existence of George W. Bush. But while the adverse reaction to Bush often bordered on hysteria, Krauthammers phrase comes from 2003 when America was becoming deeply entrenched in a costly war that it became clear was founded on a myth. If Saddam Hussein was not involved in September 11, as Bush later admitted, the opposition to Dubya was less derangement than a deep sense of betrayal.
The biggest difference here is that before Krauthammer labeled Bushs critics deranged, George W. already had three years of policies behind him. Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, hasnt been in the Oval Office a single day, and her presidency is already being treated by some as an unmitigated disaster. Whats more, even members of her own party are getting in on the action. In a recent column for Salon, self-avowed millennial progressive Walter Bragman suggests that Clinton isnt just a bad candidate shes a threat to the future of the Democratic party itself and compares her to the second coming of Reagan, a corrosive force that will destroy the foundations of American progressivism.
Weve clearly moved past derangement. This is the time of full-on Hillary hysteria.
Much more at the link... much of which I'm sure readers will be familiar
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)As much as I would like to see Bernie Sanders become the next Democratic nominee, it does us absolutely no favors to let Hillary hysteria win the day. The response from many among Sanders white male voter base to Hillary Clintons continued success in the polls is to refuse to vote for her in the general election, as if the only thing worse than a Republican presidency is four years of another Clinton. But instead of folding our arms like a pack of third graders who have been told recess is cancelled, Sanders supporters should hold Hillary Clinton accountable to the right things, instead of quibbling about how much we just dont like her, make her a better candidate.
Bernie Sanders supporters might accuse Clinton of sounding like a Republican, but were the ones who are doing the GOPs dirty work for them.
The truth spanks
MADem
(135,425 posts)angrychair
(8,700 posts)I seriously doubt you are a Sanders supporter or want to see him as the nominee. When you say tired old racist and sexist things like:
"The response from many among Sanders white male voter base..."
It is dog whistle racist and sexist bullshit.
On women and people of color:
Roughly 301,000 women have donated to Sanders's campaign compared to 240,000 for Clinton, a more than 60,00 edge as of the last reporting period at the end of September.
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/fundraising/261342-sanders-claims-more-women-donors-than-clinton
NARAL 100% rating (1996-2014)
NAACP 91-100% rating (1995-2014)
ACLU 100% rating (1999-2014)
Human Rights Campaign 100% (1995-2014)
Disabled American veterans 100% (1999-2014)
Https://votesmart.org
The point is that all these "stop the Hillary hate" people need to look in the mirror and pay attention to their own language.
Bernie has proven, not just in the last couple of years, but for decades that he is an ally of women health, women rights, LGBTQ rights and veteran's health and rights.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)Cha
(297,305 posts)hysteria to quell gets the same.
I seen this.. "Weve clearly moved past derangement. This is the time of full-on Hillary hysteria."
You all should own it and quit trying to deny it.
This is Hillary's Group.. I ask that you respect the boundaries.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)I liked. Not participating in smears.
Cha
(297,305 posts)I'm sure there are Sanders' supporters who actually recognize the reality of this. I know rare.. yet here it is.
Excellent article.
spooky3
(34,458 posts)Please read the original Salon piece at the link.
Choosing to post a quote without context or personal perspective leaves the reader to assume acquiescence at least or whole cloth agreement at best.
My response is not meant to be argumentative but to point out two things: first, to make the point that there are actors in both camps trading in false narratives.
Second, that using language like "white male voter base" is dog whistle racism and sexism. I posted hard facts to point out that there is nothing reflected in Sanders political career to support that he is in anyway racist or sexist. Not now and not 20 years ago or 30 years ago.
I have no issue debating policies and perspectives. When I see it, in either camp, I will continue to call out racism and sexism and ageism.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)I only posted the article and my only addition was to point out that a Sanders supporter wrote the article.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)Cha
(297,305 posts)hysteria to quell gets the same.
I seen this.. "Weve clearly moved past derangement. This is the time of full-on Hillary hysteria."
You all should own it and quit trying to deny it.
Tommy2Tone
(1,307 posts)I see no need for another title like progressive.
GusBob
(7,286 posts)That word just sticks in my craw.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Teddy Roosevelt being a rather notable example of that...
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)The frothing-at-the-mouth Berners (not all Sanders supporters, just some) post the right-wing crapola with glee.
When Clinton finally wraps this up, the GOP will step in where the Berners leave off, and it will be much, much worse.
Consider this preseason training: honing skills for the big game.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Granted, the frothing-at-the-mouth crew are the Junior Varsity, but by the time we've played them for a season, we'll be well warmed up to take on the rusty "A" (is for a-hole) GOP team.
It'll be all "asked and answered." And they'll have to defend their candidate as well--it's not easy to fling shit when you're cowering behind a shield. Every single candidate they have has "problems."
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)about Hillary hate ie, any opinion that doesn't support her, then his/her remarks about how HORRID Bernie supporters are. Sad.
I have SERIOUS reservations about Hillary and I WILL voice them. Linking disagreement about Hillary to disloyalty and even collusion with the right wing is a right wing tactic used to shut down dissent. Bernie is running and excelling because of people like Hillary. You may find this hard to believe but some of us are old enough to remember what dems stood for and most importantly FOUGHT for even if there was no hope of winning.
She voted for a war based on bullshit like the others with the intention of keeping her job, not because anything presented was true. Then she stood up in front of zillionaires when the country was dissolving and thousands were dying and said the war crime she enabled was a great business opportunity. That is not defensible. That actually was a character moment for her and what I learned sickened me. If that came out of Mitt Romney or Donald Trump's mouth there would be vociferous responses from this forum. That it came from her and many find nothing deeply disturbing about it is also a character moment for them.
I have policy issues with Clinton. I also have problems with Bill hanging with pedophiles when his wife is running for president. I have problems with their foundation and their pay for play business plan. My issues with her are substantive and if you want to gloss over them by calling me a republican enabler go ahead. That speaks for you, not me.
These threads want dissent to end. They want oppositional opinion to end. There's an easier way to do it. Put everyone that hurts your feelings on ignore. Eventually, the only people you will be able to read and speak with will be Hillary supporters. Problem solved.
I am an FDR DEMOCRAT. I am a LIBERAL. If you have a problem with that, examine your conscience.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)murielm99
(30,745 posts)I don't go to the Bernie room and spew crap.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Followed by...
and then...
Fascinating.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)That is exactly why HRC going through the primaries uncontested would be counterproductive.
Bernie is a nice guy with a very narrow basis of appeal. I'd vote for him as the nominee, but reluctantly. He keeps HRC's feet to the fire, and the Bernie supporters keep us on our toes; some of them teach us to have tough skin in the face of endless insults.
Not whining, just giving a pep talk to the junior varsity.
Cha
(297,305 posts)want. Quell it with the Hysteria.
MrWendel
(1,881 posts)of coming into a HRC group and preaching about "Whining"?
William769
(55,147 posts)I think you all know why I quoted that part.
SunSeeker
(51,571 posts)yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)the Republican Party.
Sometimes, it can be hard to tell the difference here at DU.
SunSeeker
(51,571 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)murielm99
(30,745 posts)And I think, while youth is represented here, most of us are older.
I think that is why the AA group here is having so much difficulty. I never thought I would see such a level of racism and misogyny on a Democratic site. I have lost respect for a number of people here, people I have interacted with for years. I am not so sure about those who are supposed to police and/or own the site, either. I am questioning whether or not I want to continue to support this site financially. I guess we will see how things look after the primaries.
Fla Dem
(23,690 posts)LuvLoogie
(7,011 posts)might gave some unresolved Mother issues.
Just sayin'...
Laser102
(816 posts)William769
(55,147 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)I've never seen so many BREITBART and Daily Caller references here of late. We never used to see those sources, or if we did see them, they'd be prefaced by something like "Can you believe what those morons over at BREITBART are saying?"
phantom power
(25,966 posts)LuvLoogie
(7,011 posts)Feeding here and there, but never cultivating.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)Cha
(297,305 posts)SunSeeker
(51,571 posts)maindawg
(1,151 posts)From the left. I see the squeemish reluctance of the left to embrace her just yet. Allow the process to run its course. I think it dumb to assume that she will be the nominee. Hell,the MSM is still trotting jeb around like he matters. I am tired of being told who to vote for by some billionaire. We all are.
lobodons
(1,290 posts)Thanks for running Bernie!! Bernie has excited the Progressive Left which will be important for the Democratic Party as a whole come 2016 General Election. With an excited Democratic Party as a whole, we can not only win the White House (GO Hillary!!), but also take back the Senate and win seats in the House!!
Without Bernie this would have been a horrible Non-Primary for the Dems.
SCantiGOP
(13,871 posts)Sanders is my favorite member of Congress, but I won't consider supporting/voting for him in the primary because he can't win the nomination, and if he did somehow win it he would lose the general election in a landslide (please don't resort to obscure, manipulated poll interpretations that show otherwise).
Simple fact is the most conservative or most liberal representative of either party cannot win a general election.
I do think, however, that his run has been good for the party, the progressive movement and Clinton's GE run. He has raised important issues and will help Clinton's run as a liberal (not socialist) candidate in 2016.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Or Sec of HHS
MADem
(135,425 posts)He has always said his signature issue is working wages...
I don't know if he has the background to bring a 'medicare for all' strategy to the fore. He has the interest, but we've seen what happened in Test Case VT...and that was pretty daunting. I think the only way to slice this cake is incrementally. I know people what it all and want it now, but I think it's going to be a tweak and twist and shift and pull exercise.
Boomer
(4,168 posts)I'm a older white woman who supports Bernie Sanders. I don't have to hysterically hate Hillary Clinton to support another candidate. She's just not my first choice.
Get over it.
CountAllVotes
(20,875 posts)I'm with you!
Cha
(297,305 posts)BS fans should own it and quit trying to deny it.. or stop if it can't be owned.
Cha
(297,305 posts)spooky3
(34,458 posts)On Sat Dec 5, 2015, 11:58 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
The lefts absurd Hillary hate: Why this ridiculous anti-Clinton crusade needs to stop
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110728945
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This is trolling. No substance bashing of Bernie Sanders supporters
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Dec 5, 2015, 12:05 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Posting a legitimately and reasonably expressed opinion published at Salon.com, a reputable source, is not trolling.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No, this alert is "trolling." Why on earth was this post alerted?? If you don't like what is posted in the HRC group, don't go there. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this post.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I support Bernie, but I can take this. I don't support mod-by-alert by anybody.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Yes, the piece is pretty low on substance, but still, IMO, within the bounds of discourse. You might reply to the OP pointing out the lack of substance.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is a terrible alert, stalking of Hillary Group posters, an alert on the alerter is in order
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Good jury...
navarth
(5,927 posts)Response to spooky3 (Reply #18)
IHateTheGOP This message was self-deleted by its author.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Response to spooky3 (Reply #18)
IHateTheGOP This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to spooky3 (Reply #18)
IHateTheGOP This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cha
(297,305 posts)I have no interest going in there but they cannot respect our space.
MADem
(135,425 posts)That's just not right. Juror 7 and Juror 3 make some great points.
Cha
(297,305 posts)OKNancy
(41,832 posts)That's crazy. You can't even post a Salon article without getting alerted around here.
William769
(55,147 posts)OKNancy
(41,832 posts)If my many written then deleted posts are an example!!!
William769
(55,147 posts)yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)a lot of "Listen to what I say, not what I do."
You remind me of Scotty, the barroom brawl, and "The Trouble with Tribbles"!
Cha
(297,305 posts)This is for the jury! Thank you!
Response to OKNancy (Original post)
Bobbie Jo This message was self-deleted by its author.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I can't even wrap my head around someone alerting on this. SMH.
navarth
(5,927 posts)It's best to admit the difference.
Response to OKNancy (Original post)
IHateTheGOP This message was self-deleted by its author.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)is the best qualified candidate for the Presidency. nt
Cha
(297,305 posts)JackHughes
(166 posts)Any progressive who believes that Hillary Clinton's ideology isn't "pure" enough to deserve their vote in the general election -- assuming she is the Democratic nominee -- will be casting a de facto vote for the Republican candidate.
Keeping the Republicans from controlling the executive branch and making Supreme Court appointments is the highest priority. That means supporting the Democratic nominee, whomever that will be.
As Bernie Sanders himself has said, Hillary Clinton on her worst day will be a better president than any Republican on their best day.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)What a pile of crap! He doesn't know what he is talking about. He is conflating right wing baseless mud-slinging with the mindset of progressives in the Democratic party and projecting that we have the very same reasons to oppose her. As if the majority of us, or even a significant minority, are concerned with the faux Benghazi witch hunt, or the over-inflated email "scandal". Yes, you idiot, the "oft-cited ties to Wall Street and her hawkish foreign policy" ARE some of our main concerns. Jesus..speak for yourself you fucking twit! I highly doubt you are really a Bernie supporter as he himself rebuked this kind of stupidity.
"...how often are they the central force of the criticism lodged against her campaign?" Uh....pretty much 100% from the left. Of course there will always be some exceptions, but most of us follow Bernie's example and realize that the email "scandal", and Benghazi are ridiculous, and are meant for another audience; the Faux News and hate radio crowd. Sure you will find one or two ignorant irrational haters, even on DU, but to imply that there is any concordance among any significant portion of Bernie supporters with the GOP that Benghazi and emails are Hillary's biggest problems is appallingly disingenuous and yellow journalism of the lowest order. And even worse, we are so stupid that, unlike the GOP that let slip this is all political theater, we actually believe these faux scandals into a "full-on Hillary hysteria".
This article is laughable if it wasn't so harmful. Ironically he is perpetrating exactly what he purports to be exposing; polarization in the Democratic party. Trying to create a larger flame war on baseless accusations. Splitting the party further with those on one side saying, " See...this confirms what I always knew...Bernie supporters also support the GOP's witch hunt!" While at the same time this piece of garbage also makes us in Bernies camp angry at that induced reaction, and the flames reach higher.
Cha
(297,305 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 5, 2015, 08:01 PM - Edit history (1)
"This is the time of full-on Hillary hysteria."You all should own it and quit trying to deny it.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I think some people have themselves so worked up they are going to start speaking in tongues.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)That left wing Clinton haters are just a bunch of crybabies.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)69% for Obama during the healthcare.gov fake scandal and Clinton now at 64% during endless fake scandals. Neither of them ever get the benefit of the doubt, there's complete certainty about what they think and will do, they're personally blamed for everything, assumed to have hidden agendas and owners, only care about money and power, you know the rest. Cartoon villains. Even Republicans are allowed a human personality and seen as individuals. And of course if you call this unfavorable rating demographic what it is, white men, they get mad at you for not respecting their individuality, offended that it might be predicted what they will think and do.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)I might have thought that after six decades I would have run out of whatthefucks, but no.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)applegrove
(118,683 posts)the never vote for Hillary meme. Funny how the greatest Hillary haters on the DU went silent for a month after Hillary crushed it during the Benghazi hearing. All in unison the anti Hillary crowd went silent. Shows you how well trained that group of paid GOP trolls are.
Cha
(297,305 posts)No kidding!
But, I take exception to this from Bernie..
Yeah. and then in the second debate BS decided that there should be more investigation of the emails. Not only wasting taxpayers money$$$$$$. But, negating what he said in the first debate.
Thank you, Nancy.