A question about the gender wage gap. (X post from GD)

[rrneck]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024235860

[Major Nikon]

1. A better question is how much of the gender wage gap one thinks is due to discrimination

The BLS web site lists the current weekly earnings for women at $574 vs $712 for men which is a 19.4% gap.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t01.htm

Some feminists believe all of this gap is due to discrimination which is completely ridiculous. Also from the BLS web site, among full time workers, men work almost an hour more per day than women.
http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2009/jun/wk4/art04.htm

So if men are working about 10% more hours than women, right away you can account for about half the pay gap. Most competent studies on the subject account for other factors that whittle any portion of the pay gap which might be due to discrimination down to a statistically negligible amount. If you factor out non-wage considerations like the preference for higher fringe benefits and lower risk of physical injury, the portion of the gap which may be due to discrimination almost certainly gets even smaller.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2524351?uid=3739920&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21103170306031

[rrneck]

2. Discrimination may be rooted in something more fundamental

than just differences in gender. I doubt that discrimination is the result of misogyny.

[Major Nikon]

3. I'm just pointing out what part of the gap might be due to discrimination

Pretty much all comprehensive wage gap studies (including one done by feminists) put the unexplained portion of the wage gap at around 6%. Within that 6% you have a number of factors which are difficult to quantify, one of which is discrimination.

[rrneck]

4. I suspect that

most of the reasons for the any pay gap have deleterious effects on both men and women while a small portion of it is the result of discrimination against women.

[lumberjack_jeff]

5. Most of the gap is the result of choice.

Fewer hours, in shorter careers, in lower paying occupations.

The remaining differential (6-ish percent) is at least partly due to men's greater likelihood to negotiate for salary and women's greater priority of flexible hours and benefits.

Consider this. What would be an economically rational decision for new parents with fixed expenses, with the mom home on unpaid maternity leave? More overtime for dad, perhaps?

Strangely enough, both ends of the pay gap (men making more and women making less) are partly attributable to women's choices.

[rrneck]

6. There's choices and then there's choices.

How many people choosing careers that don't pay much would turn down the money if they could get it doing the same thing? How many people who enjoy their work and make money at it would take less money to do it?

Nobody does anything for just one reason, and those reasons spring from both inside and outside their skulls.

In terms of how people structure their lives in a cooperative relationship I think your description is spot on.

[lumberjack_jeff]

9. You make it sound like that there's no reason that some careers don't pay much.

People go into teaching or social work despite the low wages because of the perceived nonmonetary reward. Enough choose careers for that reason that a) pay is flat and b) credential creep requires a bigger investment by the worker to get a job in that field.

I make about one-fifth of the salary of my previous job because I chose to do something that is more closely aligned with my personal goals. That 80% pay gap is not some kind of conspiracy, it's a direct consequence of my choice; pay is less important than nonmonetary reward.

My job is fun - of course it pays less.

[rrneck]

11. Same here.

There's certainly a reason that some careers pay more than others. But I doubt that that disparity exists because of some enmity between the sexes. Would you, for example, rather be a citizen of ancient Sparta or Athens?

And what made each culture develop the way it did? Cultural development is a response to environmental pressure. If we don't understand why a culture functions the way it does, we can't change it.

If you keep poking me I'm going to wind up writing a big honking piss everybody off OP.

[Major Nikon]

7. Doublethink

Women are to be valued for spending 53 minutes more with household activities, but men are not valued for spending 73.8 minutes more with work and work related activities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink

[lumberjack_jeff]

8. In general, couples behave as a team.

What the family needs is determined and a strategy is developed to make it happen. Since the women give birth, and the men are trained in higher-paying occupations, it usually makes sense for the woman to take on the bulk of the housework and the man to take on the bulk of the income creation.

In families where the mom is the one trained in the higher paying occupation, is where see the stay at home dads.

[Major Nikon]

10. Gender equal opportunity does not necessarily mean equal outcomes

I'm not sure why this is so hard for so many to understand.