Age Discrimination

[groundloop]

So what the hell is an "old fart" to do?

I'm an engineer who was unlucky enough to be laid off several months ago (after over 17 years at the same place) due to corporate restructuring (the company was profitable but wasn't making as much they wanted). I'm over 50 and have become convinced that my age has been a detriment to landing a new job.

I've applied for jobs which were a perfect fit for me, even ones where the job description says at least 10-15 years of experience. I've had very good phone interviews, but can't get past that. The people I've interviewed with are smart enough not to come out and ask my age, at the end of the conversation they ask what year I got my degree and then I never hear from them again.

Other than to keep on trying, and praying that I find something before I have to start robbing from my 401k what else can be done? I just have a sick feeling that I'm screwed.

[jtuck004]

1. You are screwed. The sooner you accept it and move on, the sooner you will quit trying

to reclaim something that is never coming back.

I would waste your time telling you we are in a recovery and you should just keep the faith, etc., but you need advice that is best for you. 10 million people have dropped into poverty waiting for a non-existent recovery in the past 6 years, along with another 20-30 million who moved down into near poverty. Most of them and their kids will be there for the rest of their lives.

Until the people have recovered what they lost it is disingenuous to talk about a recovery.

At least you have a 401K if needed, and it probably will be. Regardless, if you want to preserve it, start right now thinking about how you can get some money coming in WITHOUT working for someone else. Lawn mowing, cooking, making something - whatever you can do.

Spend a little time each day thinking about it this way instead of trying to restart the past.

Btw - if I am full of it, and a resume does bring you a windfall, that's great. But the odds may be about as good as a lottery ticket.

Others may disagree, but that doesn't help you, when you need a plan. Other plans would be interesting.

Oh, and I'm 60, used to work on large computer networks, a soul-sucking job.

[groundloop]

2. Gee, thanks for the uplifting post :)

Yes, to be honest I've gotten an extremely bad attitude lately (somehow I manage to keep it in check and be all cheerful when talking to recruiters). I feel like what the hell, I've done what good Americans are supposed to do - go to college, work hard at making lots of money for my employer, and now I get tossed aside.

I need between 5 and 10 more years of gainful employment before I feel like social security and my 401K will support us. Yes, I suppose we're in better shape than a lot of people, but it just really sucks to think about the prospect of having to move out of the house that I built.

[jtuck004]

3. Yeah, I thought about becoming a motivational speaker, but I have a nasty moral streak

that might interfere.

I had a college and career path in networks, did well and got paid well, but left to help an inlaw for 10 years, and then when I turned 59 it all came apart. It's a bit of a struggle and the next few years are going to be perilous, but it beats not having anything.

I did play the resume game for quite a while, built my own lab and got a couple of clients, got current on some things, but since the big growth in jobs is in fast food and home care, the need for all this isn't what it could be. So I decided to move more toward finding something to make, and sell.

I know and talk to people who were in the same realm and they are still sending in resumes, paying $40K to that private sort of IT school, burning assets in expectation that the past will return. I wish them luck, but at some point you need to ask whether you are getting a good return for spending what you have left, eh?

I hate losing the work I did on this house, adding the addition. If we do. But that's not the worst thing in the world.

[jtuck004]

12. "an extremely bad attitude lately" < See, that's what people accuse me of, when I think I am just

being realistic. The same people continue to point out that I am no fun at parties.

I would rather be pleasantly surprised than disappointed.

Lately I have been trying to spend most of my time learning new things about candy, hopefully find a niche in that. Soon. And maybe some way to work others into that, people who seem to still be depending on what was.

I think many people would be a lot better off if they would just entertain the thought that the life they knew is dead, and any time wasted in trying to "integrate" oneself back into it again might be better invested in ways other than bemoaning a loss they will never recover, eh?

Good luck.

[mahina]

16. I have an idea for a business that's really needed.

My old gas stove stopped working on 3 burners so I finally called a repair guy.

He came and told me it was not worth fixing and I should go buy a new gas stove.

I asked him the model number and what the name of the part that was broken was.

He told me both. I looked up the manual and found out I could buy the gas diverter thingy that distributes the gas to the burners, delivered, for 70 bucks.

So I did.

When my washer broke, the repair guy told me...it was not worth fixing and I should go buy a new washer.

Same thing.

I think there's a big need out there for honest advice from someone who can read a schematic diagram. I bet a lot of people would pay 30-40 bucks for help, rather than pay 150. to be told to throw out your appliances. Wordpress is dirt simple to set up. I can help you!

I'll keep thinking...

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

4. What type of work do you do? n/t

[groundloop]

5. I'm an electrical engineer

Funny, I keep hearing that there's a shortage of engineering talent in this country yet here I sit chomping at the bit for a chance to provide some of that talent. The truth is that there's a shortage of engineering talent that's willing to work for peanuts.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

6. have you consided consulting?

I've been consulting for about 20 years.

[groundloop]

7. I wouldn't have a clue how to begin

Besides most consultants I know have their PE, which I don't. I'm not opposed to doing consulting, but just really have doubts about being able to hook up with people who needed my experience (I've mostly done industrial control systems).

I've done contract engineering before for several years and have been looking for a contract gig which fits my experience, so far I just haven't been able to find one that's anywhere close to where I live.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

8. I don't have a PE

I do software and systems work mostly. The systems work is mainly writing so I can do some of that from home. I work through an agency. (Actually I remain in contact with several agencies, always on the lookout for another or a better opportunity.)

I can DUmail some names and numbers to you of some agency rep/recruiters.
Also, consider signing up at: http://www.cjhunter.com/ceweekly.html
...and uploading a resume.

Where do you live? I noticed you host the Georgia group. I work in Atlanta right now. Are you near there?

Any special reason why your averse to traveling? I've been principally on the road for 14 years.
Lots of frequent flier miles...

[groundloop]

9. Yes, I'm near Atlanta

And sure, if you know of any good agencies etc. I'll certainly talk to them.

I look at the listings on CEWeekly from time to time but haven't seen anything that would be a good fit for me. You think it would be worth paying for a membership to post my resume with them?

As far as travel, I've been there and done that to the point of mental exhaustion. It was ok before I had kids, but once I had a family I just had to get off the road. Maybe in a couple more years when they're finished with school I won't mind as much, but for the time being I need to be able to be around to help with schoolwork etc.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

10. I understand wanting to be home

I'll be at the office tomorrow. I work near GA Tech and I'll ask around among the EE folks for you if they know of openings.

I'll DUmail you some agencies that I talk to in a bit once I have some names & numbers put together.

Homework help wasn't fun by cell phone but my youngest daughter is 26 now and a manager for Sears Auto. I live near Philly.

It's $25 for a year online which I see as a cheap investment.

I hear a lot about age discrimination. I'm sure it's a fact but a lot of offices are individual. In my group our manager is the 2nd youngest (late 40s); we 1 woman (39) and two men that are directs (late 40s and early 60s). I'm one of 3 contractors (mid 50s, me, 60 and 71). We have 2 offsite contractors that do firmware development and both of those guys are around 60.

Have you done any aerospace or military work? Would you relocate for the right opp?

[CK_John]

11. Check out possible career path that may work for you, posted today.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1119620

[RandySF]

13. My age is hurting my chances of getting a promotion.

I know I know, at least I'm working. But it hurts anyway.

[libdem4life]

14. There is one job where your age does not matter...truly. But it's tough...Sales. I've seen many

jobs on job boards for sales/specific market experience that I don't have. I was a school teacher, a real estate agent and office tech sales, then online work. They will put you on, but you have to "earn it". Not the worst situation in the world if you don't have a job.

Change your Search to Sales and see what's available in your area and your field. Wish you success...lots of Job Boards online.

[InkAddict]

38. That might work if you are

cosmetically acceptable. No gray hair unless you are a "silver fox." Are you sagging facially or physically - time for facelift and/or the gym and a diet. Be sure your posture and balance are in tip-top condition. Be sure your dental care is up to date - lovely white biters with no rotting/tobacco laden bad breath. You'll also require an elegant, non-offensive quality to your voice, and your language can give away your age. A relaxed congenial well-groomed and hygenic man may indeed land the job. Lot of folks are also looking for the person with a very large database of "friends" and networking contacts, so if you only hang with the family and are not presently smooging it up in the community saloon, you might not be the right "fit."

The daily challenges to meet the team goals will be equally as challenging should you land a spot.

Sorry to be the debbie downer, but appearance and other "social" skills and qualities seem to be really important over product or process knowledge and/or experience that comes with age-in-grade.

[Jax90]

15. My father was in the same type of situation.

3 years away from retirement, my father's company shut down. He's been going through pretty much the same issues you're dealing with. I hope it all works out for you!

[openheart]

17. Pray to god sincerely and God will help you.

Before two month, I wanted to change my job,and called many number,for some reason they don't employ me.I was depressed after meet so many failures.my friends told me that God is there and you can ask God for help, So I pray to God,truly believe that God controls everything. Then one day, I called a number and it's okay, thank god! In some degree, young people have more chance to find a job, but don't be sad when it's hard for the old. God love and care all the people, young and old, pray to god sincerely then God will help you.

[mackerel]

18. I'm going through the same thing right now. Did Groundloop ever find a job?

[groundloop]

22. Well, I did find a job but it didn't last... so now I'm in the same boat again only worse

I found a job last year. It was a very small company, the owner gave off some bad vibes but I was desperate for a job and took it. That only lasted about a year though, so now I'm looking again but with the added burden of having to explain why I held that job for such a short time.

[mackerel]

24. I started substute teaching-I call it guest teaching-the pay is decent and as a guest

teacher I can pick and choose the school and age I want. Now I'm doing a long term English guest position for 7th grade and I love it.

[Michael621]

19. Don't lose your patience

Forget what happened and try at some other places to get a job.

[drm604]

20. I can identify.

I'm a software developer who's over 50. For over a year I've had one interview after another. The technical people always like me and my background, but HR always has one bullshit excuse after another. "He didn't seem enthusiastic enough about the job". "Not a cultural fit". One actually told the recruiter that they'd decided to go with someone more junior. And lately I've been receiving hostile questioning about why I haven't worked in a year. I feel like telling them "because assholes like you won't allow their company to hire me even though your technical staff likes me!"

I can't give up. I have nothing to live on and I'm not old enough for social security. I'm at my wits end.

[Phill_Dalton]

21. Everything is your hands

I understand, this thread is a little bit old, but who knows, maybe following tips will help someone.
– Ask Peace Corp for opportunities. It's a great way to meet another countries and transform your experience and passion to helping power.
– Start your own company. You don't have to do engineering, maybe if you try to help guys like you("old farts" if you will), it could be useful.

[EllaJones]

23. Great option to do

Hey Phill,
Your suggestions are very nice and implementable.

[liberal N proud]

25. I was just laid off this morning

After 32 years in engineering, who is going to hire a 58 year old engineer?

I will never make what I was making again, retirement is screwed.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

26. What type of engineering?

What region do you live in?

[liberal N proud]

27. I am/ was the CAD Manager

Currently in the Cleveland area, but we are going to take this opportunity to relocate to the SE part of the country South Carolina down through Georgia.

We may just move and then find a job, but would love to find something ahead of time.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

28. Would you consider consulting?

I've been doing that for a long time.

http://cjhunter.com/index.html

Move somewhere cheap to live that works for you and travel to where ever the work is.

[liberal N proud]

29. I have tried to figure out how to do that for years

It might be my best option at this point.

We already know the part of the country we want to live. SE US.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

30. Please let me know if I can be of any help

Are you a solidworks wizard?
What tools are you skilled with?

[liberal N proud]

31. Autodesk Inventor is the 3D tool

But doing SolidWorks isn't that much different, I evaluated both.

I was responsible for the implementation of Autodesk Vault for data management and developed Automated Engineering Change Process.

And I can still do mechanical design.

I think, for me, the issue is surviving until your business gets going, then any downturns. But consulting is something that one could do well into retirement years.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

32. I'll be in touch and let you know what I find out

[liberal N proud]

33. Any help is appreciated

Sent you my email

[groundloop]

34. I have seen quite a few contract openings for people skilled in both SolidWorks and Inventor

Last edited Sun Oct 16, 2016, 12:37 PM - Edit history (1)

Gulfstream (in Savannah) is hiring contract engineers out the wazoo right now. You can go to this link and search for contract jobs :


http://cjhunter.com/jobsearch/cjsearch.html

Also, you're ahead of the game by being willing and able to relocate. I initially didn't want to relocate to stay close to some family as well as having a deep attachment to the house that I built, but finally set some parameters for where I'd be willing to relocate to.

[liberal N proud]

37. The plan is to relocate

It's time to make that change.

[groundloop]

35. You CAN find a new job, but it's likely to take longer than it used to

I'm a year older than you, after 8 months of job hunting and 125 applications submitted, 27 of which progressed to at least the telephone interview stage, I finally accepted a job offer this past week with a very good company.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

36. Congrats, that's fantastic.