"They"re Going To Have To Find Out For Themselves When They Can't Sell Their House" - NYT

[hatrack]

EDIT

Irked by the debate and concerned that the news media wasn’t doing enough to cover what she was seeing on the beach, Ms. Gill, whose father was a producer for CBS News, started shooting videos with her iPhone during her morning walks. “I started going around and filming more and more and more and more,” she told me as we stood on the Naples pier. On Nov. 26, one of her videos went so viral that it drew the notice of The Naples Daily News and local news stations.

In the video, Ms. Gill zoomed in on a six-foot-long, stiff, glistening dolphin carcass, its mouth frozen into a toothy smile. The creature was one of more than 20 dead bottlenose dolphins that had washed up on local beaches in recent days. “This is the seventh one in 24 hours,” Ms. Gill said through tears in the video. “When is this going to stop?”

EDIT

Yet despite that literal, concrete evidence, Professor Kirtman told me that a third of those he talks to about the data behind human-influenced climate change just don’t buy it. So he has stopped trying to persuade that part of the population. “They’re going to have to find out for themselves,” he said, “when they can’t sell their house.” I hadn’t heard that kind of pessimism from Mr. Kirtman when I met him four years ago while covering the governor’s race. I wondered whether Facebook hadn’t contributed to hardening positions, with increasing talk of the “deep state” providing denialists with a fresh line of attack.

EDIT

By the end of my time with Ms. Gill, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration declared that 42 dolphins had died in the previous 10 days. And a new emergency was breaking out. Sea birds — including sandwich terns and common terns — were dropping out of the sky, dying by the hundreds. Veterinarians at the von Arx Wildlife Hospital of the Conservancy of Southwest Florida were deluged. The director, Joanne Fitzgerald, told me they weren’t ready to blame red tide. Working in the reality business, they were awaiting lab results. But she added that she had never seen anything like it in 25 years.

EDIT

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/02/business/media/climate-change-news-media-red-tide-florida.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fclimate&action=click&contentCollection=climate®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront

[2naSalit]

1. It's the only point that makes sense to them...

if they choose to accept it.

[olegramps]

14. Maybe, just maybe when they need a boat to leave house.

[mountain grammy]

2. K & R

Everyday brings new horror to the FL gulf coast and, for the most part, the national media ignores it.

[Honeycombe8]

3. What does that have to do with selling a house? nt

[thucythucy]

6. Would you buy a house

in the midst of an all pervasive stench of dead and rotting mammals and fish and birds?

Not to mention the possible health effects of red tide on humans.

[aggiesal]

26. Or the rising tides that is happening throughout Florida? ...

The rising tides will bring the red tides into our city streets.

Try buying or selling your house with that pestilence at your door step.

[Honeycombe8]

31. I live in Louisiana, so you're asking the wrong person.

But I see. I thought there was some direct connection with housing sales, but it means a general lack of desirability would interfere with house sales.

People will buy houses anywhere. The only issue is price.

[PeeJ52]

9. On some days...

it's hard to breathe due to the odor of the bloom and rotting fish.

[moreland01]

10. Do you live on the beach in Florida?

We did for 12 years (1990-2002). We lived in constant fear that our insurance company would drop us and we wouldn't be able to sell our house. We kept saying 'One more hurricane and we're toast.' When the beach is disappearing and the hurricanes are getting worse and the insurance companies are leaving town, it's scary to have your nest egg invested in a house at the beach. Even back in 2000. The "red tide" crap? Can't even imagine what that's like. Who wants to buy a house with that smell? Or the view when you just want a nice walk on the beach.

[Honeycombe8]

32. I live on the Gulf Coast in Louisiana.

I regret moving back here last year, on my family's pressure to do so (I'd planned on moving somewhere in Texas).

I'm going to try to sell (at a loss) and move to Texas. This was a huge mistake.

We're 60 miles from the coast. People here have the attitude of "well, this is Louisiana, so we have hurricanes. La-de-dah." They think the rest of the country has the same situation, only w/different kinds of disasters. They don't understand that NO...many many areas have little chance of going through a disaster, and if/when they do, it won't have the destruction that a hurricane does.

People here don't get around much. But I need to get out, while I'm still young enough to settle somewhere else.

[misanthrope]

35. I can sympathize

I have been stuck in Mobile, Alabama for decades now. Long story short, my wife said she wanted to leave but after we were married it became evident that wasn't going to happen.

I think there's a kind of mass delusion about their situation as it regards weather and the Gulf of Mexico. They possess the same willful ignorance you describe.

My wife's family even has a beach house on Dauphin Island, a barrier island that is a glorified sand bar. I have been telling them for decades to sell it, that the rising cost of insurance and encroaching surf are a recipe for disaster. Two houses between them and the water have been washed away in the last 15 years. Their turn is coming.

Still, they won't try to defray the financial loss. They refer to their emotional ties to the house, "all the good times" they had there decades ago and how much their deceased relatives used to love it.

This is becoming an increasingly more precarious place to live. The summers grow longer and hotter, more dangerous. Mosquito-borne contagion will increase in an already rainy area. Then add to it the hurricanes and anyone with objectivity can see what's coming.

The Gulf Coast is going to become quite a dangerous place to live in the coming decades.

[Honeycombe8]

37. Exactly. It's going to become "quite a dangerous place" in the coming decades. nt

[radical noodle]

12. It won't be easy to sell a multi-million dollar beach house

if water is lapping at your doorstep or there are dead fish outside your window. That's when the wealthy will begin to wonder if something can be done. It has to hit their bottom line or they don't care.

[Honeycombe8]

33. Most people are that way, I've found.

I found that out when I started telling people about my problems with the ACA individual policy program. Even to this day, not one person has acknowledged those problems exist. Most people are okay with anything, as long as it doesn't cause them problems. "If it's good for ME, that means it's good."

Most people are more understanding of taxes that others have to pay, than they are of taxes THEY have to pay.

I guess it's human nature.

[Moostache]

4. 2 words - Deepwater Horizon

MILLIONS of gallons of chemicals dumped into the gulf, hundreds of millions of barrels of oil...think that had no impact on the food chain and ecology?

[Ferrets are Cool]

8. Don't forget the cane field run-off.

Both are influential in causing this tragedy.

"While South Florida sugar cane growers excel at providing the sweet ingredient for everything from cakes to candy bars, polluted phosphorus-laden runoff from sugar cane fields has damaging consequences on the Everglades.

About 62 percent of the polluting phosphorus that flows toward the Everglades comes from water draining off farmland dominated by sugar cane, according to state environmental records."

[Submariner]

29. Phosphate mining of millions of years worth of bird poop is a huge Florida disaster

https://www.sarasotamagazine.com/articles/2017/4/26/florida-phosphate

[JudyM]

30. Little heard about Taylor Energy spill is an uncontained 14 year old leak that rivals Deepwater...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/a-14-year-long-oil-spill-in-the-gulf-of-mexico-verges-on-becoming-one-of-the-worst-in-us-history/2018/10/20/f9a66fd0-9045-11e8-bcd5-9d911c784c38_story.html?utm_term=.fd276a51d571

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_oil_spill

More unrestrained drilling, please...

[Ferrets are Cool]

34. TY I did not know about this one

[misanthrope]

36. Don't forget about the dispersants

I haven't seen anything conclusive about its possible harm but I'm leery.

[Honeycombe8]

38. Of course not! Oil is a natural substance, after all.

What's the problem?

That's my dad's point of view. (I thought to myself...natural substances are only natural in the place they are supposed to be; how would you like several barrels of oil in your living room, Dad? It's a natural substance, after all!)

[misanthrope]

39. Even more so, water is a natural substance

How about four feet of that in the living room?

[Honeycombe8]

40. Even better, since we live in a flood area. nt

[Dopers_Greed]

5. And when they can't sell their house

They'll probably want the tax payers who believed in global warming to step in a bail them out

[hatrack]

7. Or when the tide comes in and doesn't go out . . .

.

[2naSalit]

15. No probably about it...nt

[bronxiteforever]

11. Kick and recommend.

[Yellowdog88]

13. Mark my words:

If they can blame it on the blacks, they will.

[llmart]

16. Kicked and recommended.

This is a frightening environmental crisis in my opinion. Yet voters in Florida still voted for the ones who've done nothing about this.

Yes, when it starts making the gulf coast no longer a vacationer's dream and the tourist dollars start dropping, then they'll start worrying. Nothing moves Americans more than money, or loss of it. Environmental concerns are just for those librul' tree huggers.

[safeinOhio]

17. Not to worry Florida....

Your new senator Red Tide Rick has it covered.

[PeeJ52]

20. Just like he covered (IT UP) 8 years as governor...

And they voted in another anti-environment Republican as governor. FloridIans aren't too bright...

[calimary]

22. We have to start calling him that.

That.

Red Tide Rick. Reminders like this of that horrid marine affliction are quite useful. Attaching something widely acknowledged as negative and/or outright noxious to someone. The concept to the person. In this case the concept being the ecological calamity that is actually, literally, genuinely, tangibly happening.

Happening right now in the real world in real time.

Further, that helps connect another dot. Attaching “Red Tide” to Rick Scott makes it clear that the dreaded “Red Tide” applies to him or is somehow connected to him. Well, he was governor in Florida. Why would one couple “Red Tide” with Rick Scott’s name? Because maybe as governor it happened on his watch?
Because maybe as governor it DEVELOPED on his watch?
Maybe as governor he had a hand in that development or enabled it with friendly executive directives or “creative” manipulations of laws or regulations?

And you can retrace the steps from here... why did he want to use his powers and authority as governor to enable conditions that eventually resulted in red tides? Why did he, how exactly did he, when did he - and for how long?

And who benefits? ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ask who benefits. And how do they benefit? And “how” leads directly to “how much”. Money is usually involved. Usually BIG money. Big money from whom? And why? For what purpose?

If we start planting this seed, seeds like this, it will begin to sow doubt as those seeds germinate. It’ll serve to remind that the red tide conditions that are proving to be literal threats to local economies as well as drastically and directly (and extremely negatively) affecting the local ecosystem. And Rick Scott’s leadership as governor has directly led to this. GOOD that the “Red Tide” label be attached to him by name. That’s GOOD. It can help wake people up. At least a few. At least for starters.

Hard to live in a bubble where you’re constantly told that everything’s fine, when you step outside your own front door and see it right there in the flesh along the nearest neighborhood shoreline or waterfront. Or you know people who attest to this happening in THEIR neighborhoods.

Seeing is believing. We can only hope that enough people start waking up, and coming to their senses NOW. And you can start that by messaging. Planting seeds in people’s minds. Perception management. Managing their perception of the world and the world around them. I just regret that too many people in this country can’t learn a lesson in any way other than the hard way. There’s a fair amount of grief and anguish ahead.

[safeinOhio]

25. Thank you for the eloquent reply.

Be great if it sticks.

[aggiesal]

28. Nice 4 word catch phrase ...

Red Tide Rick Scott!!!
Great bumper sticker.

The RWNJ's should understand that.
Well, maybe not.

[world wide wally]

18. And so they vote their Governor into the Senate

Is that so he can do for America what he did for Florida?

[defacto7]

21. They probably didn't vote him in.

A minority just seized it.

[world wide wally]

23. As they say, "same difference"

[calimary]

19. This makes me so sad.

So very sad.

[SunSeeker]

24. K & R for exposure.

[LonePirate]

27. My apologies to Florida DUers but I would never buy property in the state.

Climate change will erase so much of the state from the map as ocean levels rise; but this red tide is making some of it uninhabitable now.