Hydrogen energy industry layout of 16 central enterprises in China in 2022

[Caribbeans]

Hydrogen energy industry layout of 16 central enterprises in China in 2022

Seetao 2022-06-17

China has released a medium and long-term plan for hydrogen energy development, positioning hydrogen energy as an important part of the future national energy system and a carrier of green energy transformation, and plans to gradually establish a complete hydrogen energy industry system in the next 15 years. In the process of planning and implementation, leading enterprises are required to lead the layout of the hydrogen energy industry chain at a high level across the country. At present, there are many central enterprises in China that have deeply laid out the hydrogen energy industry chain and are playing such a leading role.

Seedao.com combed and found that with Sinopec, PetroChina, CNOOC, State Power Investment Corporation, State Grid, China Datang, Huadian Group, Three Gorges Group, Dongfang Electric, China Power Construction, China Energy Construction, National Energy Group, China State-owned enterprises represented by Shipbuilding, CRRC, FAW Group, and Dongfeng Motor are developing hydrogen energy, and the layout in the first half of 2022 will be very large. The details are as follows.

Sinopec is a domestic energy giant. Under the background of the national energy strategic transformation, Sinopec has also carried out a comprehensive layout of the hydrogen energy industry, and proposed the goal of becoming "China's No. 1 hydrogen energy company". Sinopec's development goal during the "14th Five-Year Plan" period is to build the country's largest network of hydrogen refueling stations, and the cumulative output of renewable energy hydrogen production exceeds one million tons, while focusing on the field of hydrogen energy transportation and green hydrogen refining.

On the whole, Sinopec continues the violent momentum of last year, actively deploying in the field of hydrogen energy, and relying on the group's strong comprehensive capabilities to build an integrated supply chain of hydrogen energy "production-storage-transportation-plus"...>>
https://www.seetao.com/details/164229.html

A great comprehensive look at what China is doing WRT: H2

You won't see many (or any?) articles like this in the US media.

Because while Americans are bickering about whether to even invest in H2 or not, or what colours of it are "acceptable", China is making it happen as you read this. And it's a distraction from the immediate goal of forking over an absolutely astounding $54 BILLION dollars for more war. Shame on the USA.

Monday Morning, hundreds of thousands of Professional Chinese engineers will go to work to make hydrogen the next big thing in energy. The US can watch - or not.



Hydrogen itself is a colourless gas but there are around nine colour codes to identify hydrogen. The colours codes of hydrogen refer to the source or the process used to make hydrogen. These codes are: green, blue, grey, brown or black, turquoise, purple, pink, red and white. LINK

[NNadir]

1. China's had the world's largest hydrogen industry for decades. They make the most ammonia.

They make the hydrogen by reforming coal, at a thermodynamic loss.

It's a rather dirty industry in China, as it is elsewhere in the world.

There isn't much media on this absurd and tiresome topic because it's a very, very, very bad idea to waste energy.

Back in 2004, when the carbon dioxide concentration in this planet's atmosphere was, in June, 378.47 ppm (week beginning June 6, 2004), as opposed to to the 421.30 ppm reported June 5, 2022, less this 20 years later, this without the environmental disaster of a "hydrogen economy," the National Academy of Sciences put together a full scientific appraisal of a putative "hydrogen economy," as this bullshit had been going on for decades, even back then:

The Hydrogen Economy: Opportunities, Costs, Barriers, and R&D Needs (2004)

Molecular hydrogen is a uniquely difficult commodity to ship on a wide scale, whether by pipeline, as a cryogenic liquid, or as pressurized gas in cylinders. On a weight basis, hydrogen has nearly three times the energy content of gasoline (120 megajoules per kilogram [MJ/kg] versus 44 MJ/kg), but on a volume basis the situation is reversed (3 megajoules per liter [MJ/L] at 5000 pounds per square inch [psi] or 8 MJ/L as a liquid versus 32 MJ/L for gasoline). Furthermore, the electric energy needed to compress hydrogen to 5000 psi is 4 to 8 percent of its energy content, depending on the starting pressure; to liquefy and store it is of the order of 30 to 40 percent of its energy content.5 Pipeline transmission of hydrogen is expected to be more capital- intensive than pipeline transmission of natural gas because of the need for pipes at least 50 percent greater in diameter to achieve the equivalent energy transmission rate, and because of the likelihood that more costly steel and valve metal seal connections will be required for pipelines for hydrogen in order to avoid long-term embrittlement and possibilities of leakage. As the shipments of hydrogen grow from today’s low levels to the amounts required to support full-fledged fuel cell vehicle use, major transportation safety code revisions will undoubtedly be required (see Chapter 9).

I added the bold. (The excerpt is found on page 38.)

Really? With atmosphere on which all living things are literally choking to death, cattle dropping dead from heat, humans dropping dead from heat, we're supposed to rip out all of the world's existing infrastructure and replace it with bigger and more expensive infrastructure because people can't think?

Now we still have this fantasy still going on, with people literally dying all over the world from extreme heat, because other people have an idiot fantasy that the world is going to make hydrogen with the useless, expensive, and failed solar and wind industry which can't even replace electricity generated by dangerous fossil fuels, never mind displace fossil fuels for hydrogen.

Hysteresis is a well known effect in electrolysis, even without respect to the thermodynamics, which is why the worst possible choice for powering it is an inherently unreliable, land intensive, and materially unsustainable so called "renewable energy" industry.

It hasn't worked in a 50 year (dying) atmosphere of insipid cheering; it isn't working; and it won't work.

Period.

Have a pleasant Sunday.

[Caribbeans]

2. "They make the hydrogen by reforming coal, at a thermodynamic loss."

From the article:

Sinopec's development goal during the "14th Five-Year Plan" period is to build the country's largest network of hydrogen refueling stations, and the cumulative output of renewable energy hydrogen production exceeds one million tons, while focusing on the field of hydrogen energy transportation and green hydrogen refining.

China Datang Group anchors the vision and goal of "building a world-class energy supplier with 'green and low-carbon, multi-energy complementarity

China Three Gorges Corporation is the world's largest hydropower development company and China's largest clean energy group. In the field of hydrogen energy, a green hydrogen technology and application innovation center has been established, and efforts have been made in technological innovation, demonstration promotion, industrial ecology and capital investment, and actively promote the implementation of green hydrogen technology and application demonstration projects, and have made great progress.

POWERCHINA is committed to integrating upstream and downstream enterprises in the hydrogen energy industry chain and integrating international high-quality hydrogen energy resources. It has actively promoted a number of green hydrogen projects in many countries around the world and achieved good results.

The National Energy Group is taking hydrogen supply as the entry point, gradually deploying to the whole industry chain, and actively creating a "green hydrogen supply chain" system.

Besides ignoring all that, you somehow thought quoting this would help your case:

The Hydrogen Economy: Opportunities, Costs, Barriers, and R&D Needs (2004)

Regurgitating yet another article from almost TWO DECADES AGO! ROFL

It's 2022. In 6 months it will be 2023. Imagine that.

This nonsense would be hilarious if it wasn't so f'n sad.


Here's another look at their new solar hydrogen plants (not from 2004), which no doubt you'll ignore again

The poster continues with this gem:

There isn't much media on this absurd and tiresome topic because it's a very, very, very bad idea to waste energy.

Anyone that wants to can see that is an absurd statement.

Open a new tab.
Go to your favourite search engine.
Type in "Hydrogen".
Filter to "News".
Filter to "Last week"

Observe the results.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hydrogen&tbm=nws&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:w&sa=X
That's just the last WEEK of news.

Ladies and Gentlemen of DU: If you're living in 2004, or 1988, or 1996 you just may have missed some important advances.

Quite obviously, the poster above simply is not going to get any of this (aside from the fact that they think solar panels are "useless" ), and maybe they'll cough up yet another paper, perhaps this time from 1997 or something.

But some younger people just might.

How's this for "useless"???

6-17-22: Chinese PV Industry Brief: China’s solar cell capacity exceeds 361 GW

Tongwei has also secured another massive polysilicon order and Golden Glass has invested in more heterojunction solar cell capacity. Furthermore, China’s National Energy Administration (NEA) said 23.7 GW of new solar was deployed in China in the first five months of the year. https://www.pv-magazine.com/2022/06/17/chinese-pv-industry-brief-chinas-solar-cell-capacity-exceeds-361-gw/

When historians try to figure out why the US lost the hydrogen energy sector there will be threads like this to explain it all.

[NNadir]

3. One can believe marketing bullshit, or one can be invested in reality.

One can learn that the use of a unit of power (Watt, MW, GW) is a cheap marketing ploy used by the so called "renewable energy" industry to avoid facing the unit of energy, the Joule, or one can learn about energy.

This obscene lie, the outright idiotic misuse of physical energy units has been going on for decades to obscure the absurd and obvious failure of the wind and solar industry to address the rising use of dangerous fossil fuels and the dumping of fossil fuel waste, with the result the world is falling into a climate disaster.

In other words, one can give a shit about the real world, or one can sink your face uselessly, and often perniciously into fantasy fiction type marketing.

If one doesn't give a shit, if one lives in a cartoon world, it shows.

Nevertheless, climate change is pretty fucking real, even after decade after decade after decade of "hydrogen will save us" cartoons.

Once again, not that I expect anyone promoting this bullshit hydrogen fantasy, in units of Energy, the Exajoule, here's where half a century of "renewable energy" will save us bullshit has ended up after the squandering - the absolute squandering - of trillions of dollars, the destruction of huge resources and land areas:



Source: IEA World Energy Outlook, 2021, page 294, Table A1A

All the cute, slick, marketing Chinese videos and websites will not change these facts.

Facts matter.

Have a nice evening.

[Caribbeans]

4. As I said...

You're simply NOT going to get any of this.

But others might.

Facts DO matter. But you have to read and understand what these "facts" mean

and when they were "discovered".

If all your "facts" come from 2004 or 1992 - and everything since is ignored-

WHAT GOOD ARE THEY

You've totally and completely lost this hydrogen argument but you don't know it yet.

Meet Hiroo Onoda, The Soldier Who Kept Fighting World War II For 29 Years After It Ended


Imperial Japanese Army soldier Hiroo Onoda offers his military sword to Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos to express his surrender at the Malacanan Palace in Manila on March 11, 1974.

The best thing for us to do is agree to disagree because it's hard to "discuss" anything with anyone when they simply ignore "facts".

Have a great decade.

[NNadir]

5. It's amusing to be told...

...that I'm not getting something when I've spent 50 years listening to this same bullshit over and over and over only to be told it's "new."

The results of people who know nothing, not history - including the history of technology - not electrochemistry, not any chemistry nor the laws of thermodynamics stated in their simplest form are in.

The result:

Week beginning on June 12, 2022: 421.03 ppm
Weekly value from 1 year ago: 419.00 ppm
Weekly value from 10 years ago: 396.07 ppm

Last updated: June 19, 2022

Weekly average CO2 at Mauna Loa

We just had what some people - head up the ass ignoramuses mostly - take for a "great decade," a reading for the accumulation of the dangerous fossil fuel waste carbon dioxide - some of which was generated making hydrogen from coal in China, a rise of 24.96 ppm in its concentration. For the whole fucking time, and well before it, we've heard "renewable energy" and storage (hydrogen/batteries/blah, blah, blah) bullshit.

This reading 24.96 ppm over a ten year period is in the top 50 of the 1,963 such readings, the 36th highest to be exact. recorded at the Mauna Loa observatory's weekly data, going back well into the 20th century. All of the top 50 took place since 2019, people whining insipidly about solar and wind energy endlessly leading up to 2019 for decades.

Twenty years ago, I was pretty sure that there will still be hydrogen hype flowing around among the poorly educated, and what I predict for 2032 with fairly secure confidence, there will still be poorly educated people hyping it, albeit with carbon dioxide readings well over 450 ppm.

That's what ignorance of history, or technology, of engineering and of basic science brings; willful destruction because real will requires education.

[Finishline42]

6. From an earlier topic on Hydrogen you started

I posted the following RE: China

in 2021 wind and solar produced over twice the GWh as their nuclear.

In 2011 wind produced 70TWh and solar produced 2.6 TWh. Nuclear produced 86 TWh.

Ten years later in 2021 wind produced 655 TWh and solar 327 TWh. Nuclear produced 407 TWh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_China

DQIIIIIIII questioned the use of Wiki for those numbers but didn't have a better source with contrary numbers. Just attacked the source.

DQIIIIIIII also never answers the question of how much worse the CO2 numbers would be without wind and solar.

the reality is that with each new wind and solar farm that comes online, coal and natgas fired power plants become more expensive. The recent surge in natgas prices is a reminder of what happens when you have to buy a fuel to produce electricity - those prices always change. Plans are made when the price is low but the reality sets in when they spike.

The cost of fuel for wind and solar never changes - it's always free...

[NickB79]

7. All these renewables coming online, yet we burn more coal, oil and gas globally than ever before

Coal is at a record high for consumption:

https://electrek.co/2021/12/17/coal-production-will-rise-to-its-highest-ever-levels-in-2022-says-iea/

Crude oil demand is at record highs:

https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insights/latest-news/energy-transition/011922-global-oil-demand-to-surpass-pre-pandemic-levels-in-2022-as-omicron-fears-subside-iea

Natural gas is slightly down, mostly because Russia is cutting supplies:

https://www.iea.org/news/global-natural-gas-demand-set-to-decline-slightly-in-2022-as-russia-s-war-disrupts-markets-and-economies

When exactly do we expect to see demand for fossil fuels falling? Because we're already at 421 ppm and rising fast, so we're running out of time.