What the frack do we know? Not much, it turns out

[xchrom]

http://grist.org/climate-energy/is-your-drinking-water-fracked-who-the-hell-knows/

Remember the scene in the movie Gasland where the guy lights his tapwater on fire? No? Here it is:

That footage helped ignite the grassroots movement against fracking, a controversial technology that shoots a slurry of water mixed with sand and laced with toxic chemicals into underground shale formations to shatter the rock and release natural gas.

The only problem with this by-now-iconic image is that the faucet pyrotechnics may actually have been made possible by a natural phenomenon: The guy’s house is perched thousands of feet above a double seam of coal, according to the Colorado Department of Environmental Protection, and methane from underground coal and gas formations occasionally bubbles up through cracks in the earth and into people’s water wells — no fracking required. (Kids in Pennsylvania have apparently been torching their water for generations.)

Then again, the flaming tapwater may indeed result from fracking in the Colorado man’s neighborhood. The point is, nobody knows.

[Buzz Clik]

1. Stable isotope signatures provide that information.

[sikofit3]

4. Yup

Your absolutely correct and this is not really brought up much so I am glad you did. They always say that the methane was there before they started drilling, which in part is correct however, they fail to mention that there are tests that can determine thermogenic methane which is caused from high pressure and heat as is associated with the deep shale they are drilling in as opposed to upper layers that hold organically decaying matter that also creates methane. The industry says that even with the signature determined they still can't pin it on their wells because it is usually found farther away and apparently the isotopes change when travelling distances. So much more testing needs to be done to get this under control.

[wtmusic]

7. The drilling could be causing a physical disruption of higher-level seams

so that method is not foolproof either.

If the tapwater didn't burn before fracking (but now does) does it really matter where the methane is coming from?

[Warren Stupidity]

2. "occasionally bubbles up through cracks in the earth"

yes I heard the science talk podcast and I had a huge dose of skepticism re the rather one-sidedness of the report. As in who exactly funded this? Anyhow, did the fracking itself let loose the methane? It lets loose all sorts of other stuff.

[sikofit3]

3. Yes

Natural gas IS methane when it is released from shale and then they take it and separate the propane, butane and other gases from it. And yes, it does let out all sorts of other stuff like ancient brine water with high TDS that make it very difficult to remove when treating the water. Also NORMs are released through the shale shavings when they drill through it and is also a factor in contamination. I also understand the silica sand that they use to push down the well bores to prop open the fractured shale that then allows the gas to be collected up the well,with the chemical laced water, causes lung cancer and other respiratory ailments to the workers and to anyone down wind when the sand plumes travel away from the drilling site. There is just all sorts of lovely things to talk about around fracking. I also read that the gas companies are using the same advertising and propaganda tactics that were used in past wars aimed to get the public to look at the conflict favorably to support it. They are not playing around because of the money involved and all the politicians are being bought off so I would really take any of this with a large grain of salt. Plus they see this as national security in the worlds playing ground in the energy markets particularly in rivaling Russia and China is also now getting into the game.

[limpyhobbler]

5. well if you water is not on fire, and then they put in a frack pad next door, and then your faucets

are on fire, and the creek is on fire, and you can see the gas bubbles in it, and all the wild animals leave, and your farm animals all get sick and won't drink the water, then can we blame the gas well?

[Champion Jack]

6. Exactly

[wtmusic]

8. Thank you

[hunter]

9. I might has more sad if I hadn't seen the kid on the ATV...

Suddenly it became an issue of NIMBY.

But who am I to talk? 40% of my electricity is generated from natural gas.

[limpyhobbler]

10. LOL I was surprised too to see a 5-year old with his own ATV

But then I was like hey I need to respect other cultures.

[FBaggins]

12. And that the dad previously confronted them with a shotgun.

Reportedly almost getting arrested (ten police cars and drawn weapons).

The report may have undersold the sour-grapes aspect as well. The guy they purchased the property from kept the drilling rights and reportedly makes almost $250,000/year from that well.

[limpyhobbler]

13. maybe but I'm not sure that changes the environmental impact question.

If methane is bubbling up in the stream, it's bubbling up in the stream. Doesn't matter if the guy is a treehugger or a teabagger. There are many examples of methane migration into ground water near fracking sites in PA.

[FBaggins]

14. It caused me to question his honesty.

There are many examples of methane migration into ground water near fracking sites in PA.

Yep... and there are also many examples of methane leaks that are entirely unrelated to fracking (or any other manmade event). When listening to a claim that says that (for instance) the stream was fine until after the fracking - who should I believe?

[limpyhobbler]

15. Beats me. Industry makes billion?s of money on this so those are the last people I would believe. nt

[FBaggins]

16. People make lots of money on wind farms too

But that doesn't mean that I believe the homeowners who translate their NIMBYism into claims of all sorts of ailments.

[limpyhobbler]

17. You suspect people's faucets were already on fire and they just didn't say anything before?

And then when a gas drill moved in down the street they got upset so they decided to report the fires and pin the blame on the drill?

Seems kind of far fetched to me. I think it's much more plausible that the gas is migrating into the water.

Since I don't trust the industry, and you don't trust thousands of people who claim to have seen effects from groundwater contamination, let's have a moratorium on fracking at this time, so we can take time to study and make sure people are not being poisoned.

Everyone admits there is methane trapped underground especially along old coal seams, and everyone knows it can escape if there is a pathway out. If you fracture the earth with great force you will cause some underground formations to break apart and escape paths will be created for the trapped gas. That seems like common sense to me. There is enough reasonable suspicion for a moratorium at this time.

"Methane concentrations in drinking water were much higher if the homeowner was near an active gas well," explains environmental scientist Robert Jackson of Duke University, who led the study published online May 9 in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. "We wanted to try and separate fact from emotion."
...
In fact, concentrations were 17 times higher in those drinking water wells within one kilometer of an active natural gas well than those farther away.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fracking-for-natural-gas-pollutes-water-wells

17 times higher concentrations near drill sites. That's a coincidence?

[FBaggins]

18. I don't just "suspect". I know it for a fact.

People have been able to do that in some areas for many decades. It isn't something new. Many people have lived in such areas and simply never thought to try. Why would you? Who tries to light their tap water?


And then when a gas drill moved in down the street they got upset so they decided to report the fires and pin the blame on the drill?

No. I think that in some of these cases it's the fracking and in some of them (perhaps most of them) it was there all along and they didn't know it.

Everyone admits there is methane trapped underground especially along old coal seams, and everyone knows it can escape if there is a pathway out.

Admits? It's what they're looking for.

[limpyhobbler]

19. So why were methane concentrations 17 times higher in water near frack pads?

Do you suppose that was a coincidence ?

[FBaggins]

20. Hard to say

The sample set it too small to make a judgement (and the paper itself says as much)... and I have a hard time believing that both the EPA and state DEP are flat-out lying.

I have no trouble believing that out of many thousands of wells (fracked or not), the ones that were done poorly could have a negative impact... but not drilling in general. And the paper does not support the scenario in your post #17 that fracturing of the earth for drilling is causing migration of gases from lower geological formations into shallower ones.

[limpyhobbler]

21. Why are they exempt from the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act, Safe Drinking Water Act, and CERCLA?

If fracking is so safe for water, why do they need special exemptions from these laws?
Why are they afraid to disclose their chemicals ?

Answer: Because they don't give a shit if we live or die as long as they can make money from it. And they pay politicians to protect them.