Environment & Energy
Related: About this forum"Fukushima Ocean Impacts" 35 min, Ken Buesseler - Marine Scientist from Woods Hole (w/updated link)
This one works
Seems to be a problem with this version
http://vimeo.com/66442400
FBaggins
(26,737 posts)Big mistake to invite an actual scientist to the CT nutcase club.
He did a remarkably good job of remaining polite as he told them "that stuff you just heard is nonsense".
caraher
(6,278 posts)Japan's Triple Disaster
Earthquake and tsunami led to release of radioisotopes
Radioisotopes in the Ocean
What's there? How much? How long?
ABCs of Radioactivity
A long and winding road to achieve stability
How Is Fukushima's Fallout Affecting Marine Life?
Seafood Safety and Policy
What's safe to eat? How can we know?
Radiation Health Risks
How can we assess impacts of exposures?
Communication in the Fukushima Crisis
How did officials, scientists, and the media perform?
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 2, 2013, 01:36 PM - Edit history (2)
Kinda non-committal but science that can be accepted by the nuke industry.
Interesting was they found a high cesium count nearshore. It appears to be more cesium 134 is being deposited?
Cesium comes from fission, right? So is there still fissioning going on? Some say the corium is now into the groundwater and if it still fissioning it would be releasing cesium into the groundwater, right?
FBaggins
(26,737 posts)Cesium has a half-life of 2-30 years (that is, the two flavors that come from reactors). So there was fissioning going on at some point in the last couple hundred years.
There's a difference between cesium that is new to a particular location... and cesium that is newly created.
it would be releasing cesium, right?
It would also be releasing the shorter-lived isotopes that haven't been seen in a couple years.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 2, 2013, 01:43 PM - Edit history (1)
Increase in cesiums from right after the explosions and melt downs are articulated very well in the report.
They do state that current high cesium count could be from runoff, or groundwater, or both. Now how the heck can cesium get in the groundwater? And why so much cesium to start with?
Were the cores contained - meaning kept separate from the atmosphere - there would have been very little cesium found, like before the explosions that destroyed the containment.
Since there is no iodine being found, it may prove to be that the cesium is a groundwater source, since it can take months for groundwater to move.
If from air deposition and runoff, that means the cores made a very big deposit on land. But the report states that 80% of the air plumes went to the Pacific.
So either there was even greater air pollution than we are told, or the groundwater is carrying the cesium from the cores underground. The report does state they will be looking into finding the source.
FBaggins
(26,737 posts)I simply pointed out your errors. You have a habit of never facing up to such errors. You just bounce on to the next one as if it never happened... only to have it resurface months later as if you forgot.
So let's take it one misstatement at a time:
But the increases from right after the explosions and melt downs are articulated very well in the report.
Yep. You just don't understand them.
do state that it could be from runoff. Or groundwater.
Just as in the video you refused to watch.
Now how the heck can cesium get in the groundwater?
Um... maybe the same way that water gets into groundwater? You know... it rains, then the ground gets wet?
Were the cores contained - meaning kept separate from the atmosphere - there would have been very little cesium found, like before the explosions that destroyed the containment.
More nonsense. 1 - That isn't what containment means... 2 - an undamaged containment would still have released cesium (hint.... they put vents on reactors for a reason)... and 3 - the explosions that destroyed the outer buildings were not in the containment.
As has been explained to you multiple times - the overheated fuel rods produced hydrogen in reaction with the cooling water - the hydrogen gas was released (along with lots of noble gases, radioiodine, and radiocesium) when pressure was vented from the containment - most of this went into the atmosphere, but lots of it concentrated within the upper shell of the reactor buildings (where the fuel pools are). When the concentration was high enough, a spark/flame ignited the mixture and "boom".
Since there is no iodine being found, it may prove to be that the cesium is a groundwater source, since it can take months for groundwater to move.
The fact that iodine isn't being found just tells you that there isn't any fission going on. Even if the fission were underground, the iodine would be impossible to miss/hide.
If from air deposition and runoff, that means the cores made a very big deposit on land
Which is what everyone has known to be true since the beginning. Welcome to the party!
But the report states that 80% of the air plumes went to the Pacific.
Yep. And 20% of that number is still a "very big deposit on land".
So either there was an even greater air pollution than we are told, or the groundwater is carrying the cesium from the cores underground.
Neither conclusion is logical (or even rational). 20% of the estimated release to the land is more than enough to produce the ongoing runoff identified. What you're missing is an understanding of scale. If you look at the video above starting around the ten minute mark, you can see the cesium levels over the first year in Bq per ton of sea water. About a year out, the figures were a little below 1,000... but just after the incident it was closer to 100,000,000.
Less than 1Bq/L near the shore is absolutely explainable by existing cesium contamination being washed into the sea.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 2, 2013, 02:02 PM - Edit history (1)
A nuclear reactor containment is just a big pressure cooker.
With all kinds of pipes and other penetrations and release valves.
The cores overheated and blew out through the pipes and other holes in the containment.
Much like the Boston Bomb pressure cookers, only more massive.