Environment & Energy
Related: About this forum"Power to the People - Energy Consumption in Denmark"
This is the easy to read brochure that explains Denmark's energy strategy, which has been a guidepost for EU policy. It gives insight into the way things work when the industry players get behind policies aimed at decarbonizing a nation's energy system.
It is also a favorite point of attack by rightwing, anti-renewable crusaders who miscast the effect of carbon taxed electricity prices in effecting such change. They use less, but still have to pay about the same per month until the obligations incurred under the old system are paid off. The carbon tax also provides funds for energy assistance to low income residents.
Posted with permission and attribution.
vision for a climate-neutral Denmark...
The Danish Energy Association's vision for a climate-neutral future
The Danish Energy Association has published its vision for a climate-neutral Denmark. The Power to the People vision is a set of specific proposals stating how Denmark can become climate-neutral by 2050. The vision also sets out how Denmark can move away from the oil economy, allowing it to maintain high security of supply when the oil and gas start running out.
The vision involves using energy much more efficiently and replacing the vast majority of traditional fossil fuel consumption with electricity.
The elements of the vision are as follows:
Energy consumption will become 30 per cent more efficient
Sustainable energy will cover 80 per cent of energy consumption
Most oil and petrol consumption will be phased out. Aircraft and ferries will account for the remaining oil consumption
80 per cent of petrol cars will be replaced with electric cars, and the rest will run on biopetrol and biodiesel
20 per cent of the oil and gas boilers in homes will be replaced with electric heat pumps, and the remaining homes will use solar heating and district heating
35 per cent of the oil and gas boilers in industry will be replaced with electric boilers, and the remaining energy will come from solar heating, biomass and district heating
CCS (Carbon Capture and Storage) systems will be built at Danish CHP plants, which will generate electricity from a combination of biomass and coal. The CCS systems can not only remove the CO2 emissions from the smoke from the power station they can even help to reduce CO2 emissions from aviation, shipping and agriculture.
Go here to download the full brochure:
http://www.danishenergyassociation.com/Theme/Power_to_the_People.aspx
See also: http://www.irena.org/DocumentDownloads/Publications/IRENA_GWEC_WindReport_Denmark.pdf
The discussion in this article brings things up to date.
Energy distribution companies in Denmark are surpassing nationwide conservation goals.
Midwest Energy News, Dan Haugen
October 10, 2013
In the U.S., theres rising anxiety and speculation about how flat or falling electricity demand could affect utilities long-term business models.
In Denmark, on the other hand, electric companies have long operated in a slow- or no-growth market, and they continue to invest in further lowering customers energy use.
The Danish efficiency scheme has become the model for a new European Union efficiency law currently being implemented, and it could offer ideas and inspiration for U.S. policymakers, too, as they attempt to design incentives that can convince electric utilities to take a lead role in helping customers use less of the very product they sell.
Denmark has steadily invested in energy conservation ever since the 1970s energy crisis, when an Arab oil embargo caused fuel shortages and skyrocketing prices. As President Reagan was pulling solar panels off the White House roof, Denmark continued to spend money improving its building and power plant efficiency...
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/how-denmark-turned-an-efficiency-obligation-into-opportunity
NNadir
(33,515 posts)They've been soothsaying for decades about what they do is to line their pockets with oil and gas money.
Like most "renewables will save us" types, they're full of fecal matter, and not just in their biodigesters.
The Danish Energy website, a poster child for anti-nuke hypocrisy, has a whole page dedicated to it's filthy North Sea operations.
http://www.ens.dk/en/oil-gas
If they're really interested in phasing out oil and gas, why don't they just do it, rather than dump responsibility for their inaction on future generations.
In the preface of their Energy Agency's report (link that follows) they happily note that they spent 1.2 billion Danish Kroner in 2012 to explore for new oil and gas fields, and note as well they have fields that have been pumping climate destroying grease and gas out of the North Sea since 1972.
http://www.ens.dk/sites/ens.dk/files/dokumenter/publikationer/downloads/oliegas_rapport_uk_-_2012.pdf
Their 1972 fields are not closed and they expect them to operate well beyond the 40 years they've been aiding the destruction of the planetary atmosphere. One can be sure that the fields they've drilled this year will still be killing people with air pollution late into the 21st century.
And one might reasonably ask how is it that their colonial empire in Greenland is being explored for oil and gas?
http://www.rigzone.com/news/oil_gas/a/126559/Greenland_Minister_Will_Issue_New_Oil_Exploration_Licenses
This sort of reminds me of the dumb anti-nuke Amory Lovins, who has spent an entire career trying to destroy the world's largest, by far, source of climate change gas free primary energy while consulting for oodles of oil and gas companies, including "Suncor" operators of the world's most filthy oil source, the Canadian Tar Sands fields.
Famous Anti-nuke Amory Lovins describes his revenue sources:
kristopher
(29,798 posts)So now you turn to another absolutely absurd claim - that if they don't act in a unique way to divest themselves of their fossil fuel holdings, then the highly commendable and successful actions they take in decarbonizing their economy are meaningless.
That is a mirror of the right wing slurs against Al Gore based on his owning a large home/office complex and traveling by air; no one really buys it except the dittoheads.
And as I recall you drive an SUV and a HD pickup - both gas hogs.
Earlier, when I demonstrated that your antirenewable screeds are favorite fodder for TeaParty type wingnuts by showing the content of a hard right news site, you said (incorrectly) that I was attempting the logical fallacy of 'guilt by association'.
Yet, here you are attacking Amory Lovins; a man who has worked for 40 years on energy efficiency and renewables, a man who is considered one of the world's leading experts on moving us away from carbon, because he works with some fossil fuel companies to reduce carbon emissions by improving energy efficiency.
There is not a hint anywhere, except in the wild accusations of antirenewable nuclear industry zealots, that Lovins has ever penned a word or taken an action to promote the interests of any fossil industry, yet here you are trying out the "guilt by association" fallacy.
Your actions and behavior are inexcusable by claiming you are a victim of a fallacy.
The actions and behavior of Lovins need no excuses.
PamW
(1,825 posts)kristopher states
yet here you are trying out the "guilt by association" fallacy.
Irony is really funny; and kristopher complaining about "guilt by association" is really ironic.
I guess the idea of "two-faced hypocrisy" is lost on some. If someone, like Gore; complains about excessive energy usage and its effect on climate change; then that allows that person to do exactly what one is complaining about. As long as one complains loud and long about other people using lots of energy; then it's OK to own an "energy-hog" office complex and fly by private jet in lieu of commercial, or refrain from travel at all.
As far as Denmark, one can see where Denmark ranks in terms of CO2 emission per capita at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita
We find Denmark at #45, with a 2008 CO2 emission of 8.4 metric tonnes per capita
However, there are some countries that do EVEN BETTER than Denmark in terms of carbon footprint:
We find France at #65, with a 2008 CO2 emission of 6.1 metric tonnes per capita. France is >80% nuclear power for electric generation.
We find Sweden at #74 with a 2008 CO2 emission of 5.3 metric tonnes per capita Sweden is about 50% hydro and 50% nuclear for electric generation.
So as laudable as Denmark is in comparison to the USA, which is #12 at 18.5 metric tonnes per capita in 2008; there are countries that are doing EVEN BETTER than Denmark at this laudable goal. That's because France and Sweden listen to the scientists like Hansen. That's something that people is some corners PRETEND to do, and chastise others for not listening to the scientist. However, if the scientists tell them something that they don't like; they feel free to ignore the scientists just like the people they complain about. There's a word for that.
The good thing about science is that it is true, whether or not you believe in it.
--Neil deGrasse Tyson
PamW
NNadir
(33,515 posts)Then I merely quoted, um, Amory Lovins speaking about himself.
Of course, I believe that quoting Amory Lovins listing the semi-fascist and incredibly polluting companies he, um, works for, says something about him.
He says he consults for "Suncor," on his damn website, not mine.
Now in case anyone things that "Suncor" is a solar energy company, here's the um, "Suncor" website, telling us that um, oil sands are "green," a bit of Orwellian doublespeak that only Lovins could engineer: http://www.suncor.com/en/about/242.aspx
The "Green" Suncor: http://www.suncor.com/default.aspx
I would not be able to face myself ethically if I applauded a shit for brain pal of Jeffrey Skilling - which is what Lovins is - sitting on his fat ass in Snowmass, outside Aspen, greenwashing oil sands companies.
You may mutter all you want about "teaparty type wingnuts," but I'm not impressed. I have zero interest in kissing up to the bizarre provincial economic focus you sell here.
For instance, I, have never, not once, in my tenure here wrote a breathless post about cars for billionaires and millionaires while living on a planet where WHO reports that 2-3 billion people lack basic sanitation.
A post about cars for billionaires and millionaires: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1127&pid=58407
The World Health Organization's web page on the billions without basic sanitation.
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/hygiene/en/
Thank you for declaring yourself the world expert on the tea party. As the world expert on tea party types, maybe you'd like to clarify which thing would a tea partier talk about, the $137,500 BMW i8 or the fact that more than two billion people have never seen, never mind operated, a flush toilet?
Have a great evening. As always, it's been a pleasure to chat. Give my regards to your "drill baby, drill" pals at the "Danish Energy Agency"
Iterate
(3,020 posts)Both Nebraska and West Virginia have a population of 1.8 million. Denmark's population is over 5.6 million.
Or to put it another way, it's less than the drivers of Louisiana alone, i.e. less than its transportation sector.
New Jersey by itself could save "one Denmark" every year by a combination of reduced speed and universally adopted mass transit.
And the last time I checked, neither the Danish grid nor its civilization have collapsed.
Champion Jack
(5,378 posts)PamW
(1,825 posts)There's no "Danish grid".
The countries in Europe are interconnected in their electric grid; much the way the States in the USA are.
PamW
Iterate
(3,020 posts)As an internet "scholar", I assumed you would realize that.
PamW
(1,825 posts)iterate,
It's hard to tell.
There are lots of people that say something 100% WRONG on this forum or other places on the Internet, and then when corrected, say, "It was a metaphor".
PamW
kristopher
(29,798 posts)The figures for the first half of 2013 show that Germany exported 15.4 TWh net, with the Netherlands being the biggest buyer ahead of France in second place. Germany imported most of its power from the Czech Republic.
Based on statistics collated by Entso-E, researchers at the FfE research Institute in Munich have calculated that Germany increased its net power exports by 62 percent year over year in the first half of 2013 and last year was already a record year, with net exports reaching 22.5 TWh.
Over at Fraunhofer ISE, Bruno Burger has yet to update his excellent PDF on the German power sector for the month of June, but his slide 7 shows that the "export surplus" in the first five months was around 19 TWh, an indication that Germany became a net importer in June. Such a reversal would not be completely unexpected. As his slide 19 shows, Germany was a net exporter in the first four months of the year but slipped into the red in the month of May.
The phenomenon is easy to explain. Germany tends to export electricity at times of high demand and import at times of low demand, when prices are lowest. Because Germany has sufficient generating capacity (even after the sudden nuclear shutdown of 2011), power imports and exports are based mainly on price, not on any need to prevent blackouts.
The situation is different in France, which does not have generating capacity sufficient to meet its peak demand...
http://www.renewablesinternational.net/german-power-exports-up-by-62-percent/150/537/68613/
Well, that conclusively shows that nuclear power is a failure...
PamW
(1,825 posts)kristopher states
Well, that conclusively shows that nuclear power is a failure...
It just means that France needs MORE nuclear power plants; in order to meet its high demand.
kristopher's "logic" is analogous to this.
A man eats only 500 calories in food during the day; but is still hungry.
That CONCLUSIVELY PROVES that food is a failure at stopping hunger.
It must be TERRIBLE to form one's opinion devoid of facts and reason; and then have to resort to NONSENSE like the above in order to attempt a justification for FAILED LOGIC
PamW
kristopher
(29,798 posts)That line was a parody of you.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)I especially like the one about NJ since it's a hotbed of very rude and vocal Nnuclear advocates who just love their SUV's and heavy duty pickem-ups.
Iterate
(3,020 posts)I admit not having followed Denmark for the last two years, but what I found most remarkable here was in the greentechmedia description of the inner trust and cooperation among Danes that there seems to be.
When reading it my own visceral impulse was 'No, you can't trust the utilities', but clearly it works for them. Actually, now I wish I was younger and could work there -because collaborative workplaces are such a joy.
I have another Danish source here, but want to look through it before posting.
Iterate
(3,020 posts)http://energinet.dk/SiteCollectionDocuments/Engelske%20dokumenter/Klimaogmiljo/Environmental%20report%20for%20Danish%20electricity%20and%20CHP%20-%20summary%20of%20the%20status%20year%202012.pdf
The development of market and climatic conditions has considerable significance to the generation and thus for the environmental impact of Danish electricity and CHP.
Special conditions in 2012 were:
Larger Danish import of Nordic hydropower, extensive wind production and lower electricity consumption meant low thermal power generation
The share of fossil fuels for power generation fell to a record-low level. In particular, two larger coal-fired power station units were decommissioned in 2012 (Ensted and Asnæs)
The installed capacity of privately owned photovoltaic cell units under 6 kWp was by the end of 2012 approx. 400 MWp. Corresponding to an expected power generation of approx. 1 per cent of the Danish electricity consumption in 2013.
A note on that last sentence. 1% may not look like much from the armchair, but it has a disproportional effect on how the numbers are viewed. German consumption has also dropped, even with nearly full employment, -1.8% at mid-year as I remember. No one seems to have commented on it.
There's too much here to hang onto while going through it. I searched this site first to see if it had been posted previously; apparently it hasn't, but I did encounter all sorts of claims that this kind of progress could never work. Now we're beginning to see that it can. Needless to say, it's a must-read.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)quadrature
(2,049 posts)an example of what not to do
Iterate
(3,020 posts)Denmark is also one of the healthiest, happiest, best educated, and most prosperous nations -in the best sense of what prosperity can mean. Just maybe they're onto something the US hasn't quite figured out.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)You wrote, " Just maybe they're onto something the US hasn't quite figured out."
That should read, "Just maybe they're onto something some in the US haven't quite figured out."
Iterate
(3,020 posts)Your statement is more accurate of course, but if I wrote even more slowly I'd always be kicking page three.
I think it was Craig Morris who wrote that Germans think like engineers, and the British and Americans think like economists and accountants. Morris needs a new category for the Danes. Their community and business problem solving dynamic has really thrown me off today and into reading half the night. Plus I have to scheme and scam a train ticket for Denmark this spring. No idea who I'd see, but this is too good to let go.
And after grasping that (or not), I was looking at some EU data that suggests something is afoot in Romania. I wrote several years ago about how they were rigging/hacking a very grassroots internet system, so it might be interesting. But that's for tomorrow.
+Don't miss the http://energinet.dk pdf
quadrature
(2,049 posts)same can be said for places like,
Switzerland, Grand Caymans, VirginIslands, Norway,
and similar places.
Works for some places, can't work everywhere.
somebody else has to grow grain for export,
make steel, and other things Danes won't do.
If you think 3X electricity price is the way to go,
you might try your sales pitch on countries
like Nigeria or Somalia, it is somebody-else's
turn to go next
Iterate
(3,020 posts)The Danes are not imposing their solution on anyone else.
I can see how outrageous you would think it was for someone you've never met to suddenly triple the electricity price in the US, especially for people with low wages. I'd be pissed too. I've lived that life.
But for the Danes, it's a price they've imposed on themselves. And it doesn't stand alone, it's part of a package. Wages are high, unemployment benefits are high, and you don't even need to own a car if you don't want to, on and on. There's far more to it.
So even though electricity and restaurants are expensive, Danes and their fellow Danes can afford it. Income equality is the highest, or nearly the highest, in the world.
That kind of cooperation works in their economy as well - 9th leading exporter, mainly of manufactured goods, machinery, and food. But it's not a model for every nation.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)America's Power Plan
December 11, 2013
Renewable electricity records are falling every day. In early October, Germany recently hit a 59 percent renewable peak, Colorado utility Xcel Energy peaked at 60 percent wind at the beginning of the year, and Spain got its top power supply from wind for three months leading into 2013.
But thats chump change compared with Denmark. According to data from Energinet, the national grid operator, wind power has produced 30 percent of gross power consumption to date in 2013. This includes over 90 hours where wind produced more than all of Denmarks electricity needs, peaking at 122 percent on October 28, at 2:00 a.m.
And Denmark has plans to get to 50 percent more wind by 2020, creating even bigger hourly peaks. Energinet predicts the country may hit as many as1,000 hours per year of power surplus.
To champions of renewables, this is validation that a clean energy future is possible and that the transition is already underway. These regions also give insight into what is to come in the U.S., and what needs to change to keep a reliable and affordable power system as clean energy grows....
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/blog/post/2013/12/postcard-from-the-future-122-wind-power-in-denmark?cmpid=WindNL-Thursday-December12-2013
PamW
(1,825 posts)Hitting a momentary, or short-lived peak is NOT validation of the ability to provide electric power 24/7.
Scientifically; it's a STUNT having NOTHING to do with proof or validation.
It would be like shooting someone out of a cannon; and they spend a few seconds in the air; and then claiming "validation" for sustained flight.
There's nothing "sustained" about it at all.
However, the "greenie wet dream" purveyors and the propaganda express march on...
PamW
kristopher
(29,798 posts)By Ethan Howland Dec. 11, 2013 |
Dive Brief:
- In a few years, most power will come from distributed sources and the centralized power grid will become a "last resort," according to David Crane, NRG Energy's president and CEO.
- Utility power sales have entered an inexorable decline, the "massive excess capacity" needed to meet peak demand "will become unnecessary" and the need for new power plants and transmission infrastructure "will be eliminated," Crane posits.
- Crane says three trends will lead consumers to stop buying power from utilities: cheap rooftop solar, automated conservation and extreme weather.
- But Crane sees a possible compromise between utilities and their customers on solar. Utilities should buy back excess supply that coincides with peak use, instead of offering average power supply costs, Crane said. Solar customers should pay for grid use at night or on cloudy days.
http://www.utilitydive.com/news/nrg-ceo-power-grid-will-soon-be-last-resort/204998/
The South Texas nuclear debacle seems to have had a pretty big impact on NRG's view of the future.