Toyota quietly rolls 2015 fuel cell car into town

[nationalize the fed]

Marco della Cava, USA TODAY September 17, 2014

SAN FRANCISCO – One automaker's vision of the transportation future sat parked under a broiling sun not far from AT&T Park baseball stadium Tuesday. But the blackout tint on the sedan's windows wasn't to keep the interior cool, but hidden.

Toyota quietly rolled into town with the newest addition to its eco-conscious fleet, the 2015 FCV. That stands for Fuel Cell Vehicle and translates to hydrogen power. The car hits dealers in the middle of next year, but the company remains mum on pricing and what surrounds the passengers...

...Toyota's first hydrogen-powered production car – the result of some seven years of refining the technology and reducing manufacturing costs – joins small lease-only runs of Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell and Honda FCX Clarity vehicles. Other automakers, including Mercedes-Benz and General Motors, also have small fleets of fuel-cell cars on the roads...

...Says Farnsworth: "What first responders desperately couldn't find was power. So we (found) the FCV could be set up to double as a source of electricity to power your home in the event you lose power for some time. You never know when you may need that."...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/09/17/toyota-2015-fcv-hydrogen-powered-car/15744945/

[NYC_SKP]

1. My Prius and my El Camino can also be used to power my home and, in the past, have.

The El Camino served us well about ten years ago during a blackout in Sunnyvale that lasted several days.

I simply ran out and bought an inverter and we were able to power the refrigerator, TV, and a few lamps.

Any vehicle can produce power compatible with the needs of a household- the question is for how long without refueling and at what power level.

I don't know the details about this FCV but have driven the Mercedes version, which is basically an electric vehicle with hydrogen stored on board.

A Tesla battery bank comes in either 60 or 85 kWh, and a gallon of gasoline is said to have an energy density of 33.7 kWh but the inefficiency of conversion to electricity take that value down considerable.

In any event, a full tank of gasoline can power a house for a considerable number of days- the engine need not run constantly.

[CentralMass]

2. The typical data on the subject suggests

that a hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicle is about 3x less efficient then a battery powered electric vehicle.

[NYC_SKP]

3. With H2, I suspect a ratfucking coming. Oil needs a new outlet, a way to screw us.

And if they can convince us that hydrogen is the way to go, then build the delivery infrastructure, we'll again be stuck with "buying fuel".

With EVs, in contrast, the infrastructure is already built!

Higher density batteries will help, and I like the series hybrid/onboard generation model typified by Volt but in a lighter package, but we really don't need to go to hydrogen.

[CentralMass]

5. I agree.

[nationalize the fed]

7. Most Battery Only EV drivers are fueling their cars with coal

Tesla Model S: The finest coal-powered car money can buy
Jason Perlow for Tech Broiler | May 15, 2014

...Not only that, but they (Battery Only EV's) do not fundamentally solve the problems of moving to more sustainable energy sources; nor are they particularly "greener" or less fossil-powered than their gasoline, diesel, or even hybrid cousins.

Say what, you ask?

I'm no stranger to EVs. I've written about and driven Chevy's Volt, and I've also written about the current flaws in EV technology and why your average family isn't seeking to replace their gasoline and hybrid cars with Chevy Volts, Nissan Leafs, or the even a $70,000 Tesla Model S anytime soon.

I'm not going to re-hash any of that here, because my views are going to be the same as they were before.

For the time being, let's get away from the economic and technological barriers facing EVs, because that's really only half of the problem. Even if a mid-size family sedan could be produced for $25,000 with the same range as a $70,000 Tesla, we still have the sustainability and environmental issues to deal with...
ZDNet: http://www.zdnet.com/tesla-model-s-the-finest-coal-powered-car-money-can-buy-7000029509/

but we really don't need to go to hydrogen.

Quite fortunately you are not the one to decide. H2 is here and you've only just begun to hear about it. No one can stop the Hydrogen Revolution. Not only Toyota but Honda, Hyundai, Mercedes and the current government of Japan agree. Along with Environmentalist Amory Lovins:

Twenty Hydrogen Myths by Environmentalist Amory Lovins
http://www.rmi.org/Knowledge-Center/Library/E03-05_TwentyHydrogenMyths

[NYC_SKP]

8. Respectfully, I think you know very little about energy generation and how much it varies by utility

Oversimplification of data is, actually, propaganda and dishonest.

Despite the fact that under 50% and falling of our electricity is generated using coal, one's actual carbon or coal footprint varies by utility provider's energy source mix.

Do you not know this?

And you do know, don't you, that hydrogen required energy from some primary source to become a fuel, then it needs an infrastructure.

So have at it.

In the end, two issues will (beyond political and corporate influences) will decide: energy density of batteries vs H2, and recharging/refueling infrastructure.

I think simple EVs will rule the day.

PS, you are talking to someone who's actually met Lovins and had cocktails with L. Hunter. She and I like the same Scotch whiskey.

[CentralMass]

4. An interesting Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_vehicle#Comparison_with_other_types_of_alternative_fuel_vehicle

[packman]

6. I'd buy it on looks alone

but I'm a rather shallow guy. That , by the way, has gotten me into a hellofalot of trouble in the past.