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xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 10:29 AM Dec 2014

California Droughts Could Have Dangerous Ripple Effects

http://www.livescience.com/49287-california-droughts-ripple-effects.html

Epic droughts like the one gripping California for three years now may become more frequent in the future due to climate change, according to new research.

This will not only strain the drinking-water supplies for California's 38 million people, but will also induce a cascade of other hazards — including fires, floods and poor water quality — as populations continue to grow statewide, scientists say.

Despite heavy rains this month, 78 percent of California is still experiencing either exceptional or extreme drought, according to the National Drought Mitigation Center. Unusually low snowfall across the state is largely to blame, scientists say. About one-third of California's water comes from snowmelt in the Sierra Nevada mountains, which stretch through the eastern part of the state for nearly 400 miles (644 kilometers).

"All this rain is great," Nina Oakley, a scientist with the Desert Research Institute in Nevada, told Live Science at the annual American Geophysical Union meeting earlier this month. "But really, the snow in the Sierras is what we are after for a good year to help bring us out of drought." [Video: California Drought Map Time-Lapse Shows Distressing Trend]
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California Droughts Could Have Dangerous Ripple Effects (Original Post) xchrom Dec 2014 OP
It's been so bad.... daleanime Dec 2014 #1
the ripple effect should be considered as the fruit basket being empty. hollysmom Dec 2014 #2
And the obvious answer is grow the stuff someplace else but that would be very bad for the jwirr Dec 2014 #6
I'm in SoCal, it snowed last night. Trillo Dec 2014 #3
Let's not forget hydroelectric power generation, either. ColesCountyDem Dec 2014 #4
Instead of a Keystone pipeline, why not a water pipeline? iscooterliberally Dec 2014 #5
I live on the Great Lakes and every now and then someone suggests something like that - I don't jwirr Dec 2014 #7
I agree that there would be a huge fight about it. iscooterliberally Dec 2014 #8
Happy New Year. Hope we can all get something done this year on some of these issues. jwirr Dec 2014 #10
They are already moving here... americannightmare Dec 2014 #9
I doubt native Californians will move east. upaloopa Dec 2014 #12
Hey! Land in Detroit is cheap - could be the new silicon valley! hollysmom Dec 2014 #14
I have always liked Detroit. upaloopa Dec 2014 #16
Why pipe it from somewhere else? Why not just produce it? eggplant Dec 2014 #13
I was just throwing ideas around. Desalinization sounds good. iscooterliberally Dec 2014 #17
found this article from earlier this year eggplant Dec 2014 #19
Because piping enough water to make a dent would require insane amounts of energy we don't have NickB79 Dec 2014 #18
A few weeks ago there was a post here on upaloopa Dec 2014 #11
well, people have been working on causing this drought for a long time hollysmom Dec 2014 #15
Here's one from a week ago OnlinePoker Dec 2014 #20

daleanime

(17,796 posts)
1. It's been so bad....
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 10:37 AM
Dec 2014

even a great snow fall, after the good month's rain fall, would only start to end their drought.

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
2. the ripple effect should be considered as the fruit basket being empty.
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 11:11 AM
Dec 2014

A lot of food comes from California to feed the country

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
6. And the obvious answer is grow the stuff someplace else but that would be very bad for the
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 12:32 PM
Dec 2014

California economy. This looks like a future disaster in the making. For California and for those of us who depend on their food crops.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
3. I'm in SoCal, it snowed last night.
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 11:48 AM
Dec 2014

Our elevation is about 800 ft.

It's happened in the past here, but it's both rare and infrequent.

ColesCountyDem

(6,943 posts)
4. Let's not forget hydroelectric power generation, either.
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 12:20 PM
Dec 2014

About 12% of CA's power comes from hydroelectric generation. In the (theoretical) event that that generating capacity were lost or significantly impaired, rolling blackouts, brownouts or worse could become the norm, since other western and southwestern power generation is almost at capacity, with little to spare for CA.

iscooterliberally

(2,860 posts)
5. Instead of a Keystone pipeline, why not a water pipeline?
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 12:30 PM
Dec 2014

I heard that places like Maine have huge aquifers. Why can't we pipe the water out west, or even down to the southeast? Maybe there really isn't enough water in any case. I've heard that desalinization is expensive and costs quite a bit of energy. I remember that they had a desalinization plant in Gitmo when I worked there. I guess I would have to resort to Murphy's Law to get it to rain. You know, leave the windows down in my car, and have outdoor barbecues and weddings every day etc. Anyway, I hope there's some snow for the Sierras this winter and things get better out there, but it seems we should be preparing for the worst instead of just hoping for the best.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
7. I live on the Great Lakes and every now and then someone suggests something like that - I don't
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 12:41 PM
Dec 2014

think that will happen without one hell of a fight. At least not before a lot of conservation measures are taken by the water hungry states in the SW.

An aquifer can run dry and so can our lakes. An old friend and I used feed the birds by the lake and she would point out to me the water line from years ago on Lake Superior. We are a long way from running the lake dry but water usage should be considered on a long term basis.

I think the time will come when the population in California begins to drift back east if this drought thing continues.

iscooterliberally

(2,860 posts)
8. I agree that there would be a huge fight about it.
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 12:58 PM
Dec 2014

I didn't know the Great Lakes were receding. I haven't been up that way in many years. I guess with our larger population we are much more thirsty than ever. I saw a special on a news program called Vice on HBO a few months back where they showed an entire town somewhere in Texas that just cleared out. There was no water left and the folks there had to abandon their homes. I know that Georgia and Tennessee have fights over water rights too. I think this is going to be the biggest problem that future generations have to deal with. Anyway, Happy New Year to you!

americannightmare

(322 posts)
9. They are already moving here...
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 01:00 PM
Dec 2014

and our community leaders in Portland are not doing anything about addressing the needs of a rapidly growing population, such as affordable housing. Instead there's been a spike in 20+ story high-rises, something for which the developers have a hard-on. At least we have good transit, though most of these refugees will be bringing their fucking cars...

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/blog/sbo/2014/07/uw-professor-northwest-is-a-potential-climate.html

http://peakoil.com/forums/climate-refugees-fleeing-to-the-pacific-northwest-t62080.html

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
12. I doubt native Californians will move east.
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 01:14 PM
Dec 2014

Too many here like our way of life including me. I moved from Ohio in the 80's to get away from the conservative trends and would not move back for the same reason. At times I think we are the only sane ones in country.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
16. I have always liked Detroit.
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 02:20 PM
Dec 2014

It gave us the auto industry and MoTown music. I liked going to the Henry Ford Museum.

eggplant

(3,911 posts)
13. Why pipe it from somewhere else? Why not just produce it?
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 01:17 PM
Dec 2014

Solar Desalinization really isn't rocket science, and it'll produce all the fresh water one could want.

iscooterliberally

(2,860 posts)
17. I was just throwing ideas around. Desalinization sounds good.
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 02:23 PM
Dec 2014

If we can do it with solar then it could solve this problem in a huge way. We probably need to start doing that here in South Florida too. I just remember being told that desalinization was expensive, but that was a long time ago in Guantanamo at the military base when I worked there. The whole base got its water from that plant. I'm sure that the technology has improved in the last 15-20 years.

eggplant

(3,911 posts)
19. found this article from earlier this year
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 05:22 PM
Dec 2014
http://www.sfgate.com/science/article/California-drought-Solar-desalination-plant-5326024.php#photo-6035755

As for pumping it from the Great Lakes, this would fail -- it is the volume of freshwater in the Lakes that keeps the saltwater form the Atlantic from encroaching. Remove too much of it, and the entire Lake system would become saltwater. It's actually a somewhat fragile system.

NickB79

(19,236 posts)
18. Because piping enough water to make a dent would require insane amounts of energy we don't have
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 05:06 PM
Dec 2014

By God, you'd have to pipe it OVER the Rocky Mountains! Even the lowest passes through them are a MILE of vertical elevation change from the Great Lakes or anywhere else east of Iowa or Nebraska. I suppose we could build a few dozen gigawatt-sized nuclear reactors in a chain across the Midwest and Southwest, all dedicated solely to pumping water

The same concept mostly applies to desalination plants on the cost: to make enough water to make a difference in the drought would require so many plants, consuming so much energy, that it would bankrupt the state of California trying to do such a thing.

People don't seem to understand the scale of how much water we consume in this country. We have this idea that since we can move millions of barrels of oil a day, we could simply do the same with water. What few seem to consider is that the amount of water we consume absolutely dwarfs the amount of water we consume daily. The water directly consumed by us, the stuff coming out of our taps, is tiny compared to the water we don't see: the water we use for agriculture and industry. A desal. plant can supply a city's drinking water needs, but not come close to supplying the farms and factories that support the economy that city is based upon.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
11. A few weeks ago there was a post here on
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 01:07 PM
Dec 2014

a report saying climate change is not causing the drought.

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
15. well, people have been working on causing this drought for a long time
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 01:57 PM
Dec 2014

The aquifer was considered a problem 20 or 30 years ago by thinking people, the farms were draining it well above sustainable amounts and the Rockies were producing less and less of the water. Watering the desert ws becoming more popular - they just didn't expect the water to run out too fast. Maybe it is not global warming yet, but it will add to the mix - wasteful use of our bounty has always been a problem.

I try and use less water myself and never pay more than the minimum for water because I use less than is considered normal. I did have a young man stay with me to do some repairs, but I found him washing my driveway every day and taking 3 showers a day - told him to cut it out or he would be leaving sooner than later. My water was twice the minimum that month. Why do people think that way? I was not aware that driveways needed a shower every day, I usually count on rain for that.

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