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marmar

(77,080 posts)
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:26 AM Aug 2013

Texas DOT denies $1.6 million for El Paso bicycle-sharing program


(El Paso Times) The Texas Department of Transportation slammed the brakes on a bicycle-sharing program for Downtown and Central El Paso by denying $1.6 million in federal funding, at least for now.

During its monthly board meeting on Wednesday, the Camino Real Regional Mobility Authority was prepared to move forward with the BikeShare Program, which the City of El Paso and the University of Texas at El Paso had already approved partial funding for. But the plans changed when Raymond Telles, the authority's executive director, said Mark Williams, TxDOT's director of planning, told him earlier this week that TxDOT was not in agreement with the use of the $1.6 million.

The money was going to come from the Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality Program and the Surface Transportation Planning/Metropolitan Mobility program run by TxDOT.

"As far as I've been told the decision is final," Telles said. .........................(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_23860793/txdot-denies-funding-el-paso-bicycle-sharing-program



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Texas DOT denies $1.6 million for El Paso bicycle-sharing program (Original Post) marmar Aug 2013 OP
Bikes are not a good fit for downtown El Paso itsrobert Aug 2013 #1
San Francisco is a great biking city....... marmar Aug 2013 #2
Your right and it's not working in Seattle either oh wait, it does. bahrbearian Aug 2013 #3
I grew up and rode bikes in Pittsburgh, it depends on the traffic speed and volume and berms. happyslug Oct 2013 #4

itsrobert

(14,157 posts)
1. Bikes are not a good fit for downtown El Paso
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:38 AM
Aug 2013

Hills and traffic make bikes useless in that area of the city.

marmar

(77,080 posts)
2. San Francisco is a great biking city.......
Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:41 AM
Aug 2013

....... and its got hills and traffic that make El Paso look like Dogpatch.


 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
4. I grew up and rode bikes in Pittsburgh, it depends on the traffic speed and volume and berms.
Sat Oct 5, 2013, 01:04 AM
Oct 2013

I still remember riding on River Road (PA 837) along the Monongahela river from the South Side of Pittsburgh to Homestead. It was a flat road, but heavy traffic and no berms and no sidewalks. In an area know for potholes, not a pot hole on that road, you could not be that lucky.

River Road was paved but the steel companies would run over loaded trucks on River road between the plants. This would have the effect of squeezing the asphalt, Given that the trucks had been doing it for decades (I knew someone on the Pittsburgh Police scale operation, 80,000 pounds was weight limit, and they had no problems finding trucks on River road two to three times that weight and he had heard stories of even higher weights, how the trucks stood no knows).

Thus you had a constant ripple effect when riding on the pavement. Up and down (and you notice this even if you drove a car on it). I once saw a long report about a murder victim found on that road long after the Steel mills had closed down, and my sister and I could not believe how smooth River Road looked, it never was that flat prior to the 1980s.

The lack of a berm, heavy traffic, both Automobile and Tractor trailer made it a bad road, even through it was flat (The Pittsburgh Bike Trial of the Great Allegheny Passage from Pittsburgh to DC, goes along an abandoned Railroad that parallels River Road, it is a nice rails to trail route, River Road is still an option, more automobile traffic and less Truck traffic then in the 1970s but still no berms).

The Pittsburgh Section is called the "Three Rivers Heritage Trail":
http://map.friendsoftheriverfront.org/

The Great Allegheny Passage:
http://www.atatrail.org/

Now, while River Road was a terrible road to ride on, Carson Street, which was PA 837 through the South Side of Pittsburgh was a joy to bike on. Traffic was slower (and you had cars parking on the street) through still heavy. You had extensive bus traffic in addition to regular auto traffic but just some Truck traffic when compared to River Road. The Motor Vehicle drivers did not buzz you for the speeds were more compatible with someone biking. A bicyclist also had the option to use side streets thus South Side was a good place to bike.

Now, I Biked from the Beechview section of Pittsburgh, over Mount Washington, through South Side, over the Birmingham Bridge then on Forbes to the Oakland section of Pittsburgh. It was a five to six mile trip. Now Oakland was enjoyable place to bike. Traffic was faster then on the South-side but not excessive and you had areas you could enter to avoid excessive traffic. You had extensive side walks that drivers wanted to avoid hitting with their tires, so they also stayed aways from cyclist.

The Beechview section of Pittsburgh is noted for its steep hills, thus it was a easy ride from Beechview to West Liberty Avenue, then onto Saw Mill Run Boulevard (All of which was downhill). Once I was on Saw Mill Run Boulevard I had to go a block to Warrington Avenue so could climb the back side of Mount Washington. On the trip to Oakland, Warrington Avenue over a mile long length was the only real hill climb. Warrington avenue has some spots that reach 9% but that is very small and doable on a bike for the rest is 6% or less.

If I was going downtown, instead of taking Warrington Avenue, I would cut over to South Street and go by the Monongahela Incline. On my trips to Oakland, I would go via Warrington Avenue. Warrington Avenue and South Street were long climbs but gradual and like the South Side and Oakland slow traffic so not a problem. South Street had sidewalks and Sidewalks tends to slow down traffic. Warrington Avenue was wider and in a couple of places had no sidewalks. That combination made traffic go faster then on South Street, but still easy for a cyclist to bike with.

When I took Warrington Avenue the hill climb would end when I arrived where the old Armstrong Incline Plane use to be, I would coast down Brosville road. Brosville (not to be confused with nearby Brownsville Road) was and is a narrow two way road. I would then go on St Pius Street to South 18th Street (I know this is the wrong way on a one way street but I did it).

Side Note: South 18th Street becomes Brownsville road when it reaches the top of the Mt Washington Escapement).

I would ride down South 18th Street for about two blocks and then turned right onto St Josephine Street (thus avoiding most of the South Side, St Josephine is the wrong side of the Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad thus a low traffic road).

Second Side note: Every so often I would cross South 18th Street and continue on St Pius Street, go by the Church by parents were married in and stop at the WWII war Memorial across the street from that Church. Mr Father's name is on that Memorial for it is a memorial of all you served from that Parish, but in addition to the men, there is a separate list of women, all with Polish last names. It is the only WWII memorial I have ever seen with female names on it.

Somewhere along St Josephine I would go under an underpass and enter South Side proper, sooner or later I ended up on Carson Street then the Birmingham Bridge. The Birmingham Bridge is a HUGE bridge, it was built in the 1960s to replace an old one wooden one lane in each direction bridge known as the Bradly Street Bridge. Penndot had planned to build an expressway through Mt Oliver and the South Side using that bridge. The Expressway was never built but you ended up with a four lane modern bridge with extra wide lanes, nice to bike across on. I would take the Forbes Avenue Exit and bike to Oakland. You had one kinda long kind steep grade on the way to Oakland, but nothing to write home about. Traffic was faster in Oakland then on the South Side but you could live with it, and if you could not side streets existed so you could opt for them instead.

Now on the way back the route was similar, I then took Fifth Avenue to the Birmingham Bridge, very busy road but not a big problem if you are careful. I took the Birmingham bridge to the South Side then cross over to St Josephine Street. Then I had several BAD options (Through from a Bicycle-Auto interaction point of view not a problem).

1. Go up South 18th Street to Monastery street (Google earth calls in St Martins, but my family referred to its as Monastery for it went by the Monastery and intersected with another street with that name and when you cross onto the road, Monastery was the name you saw). South 18th Street is about a mile long all up hill but at less then 10% Grade thus still bikable. Being so long my knees would give out and I would end up doing a long walk up the Mt Washington. Monastery Street is a very narrow but flat road with a beautiful view of the City of Pittsburgh for you are near the top of Mt Washington that overlooks the City of Pittsburgh. Monastery ends at Brosville Road just below where the old Armstrong Incline use to run.

2. Take South 18th Street (this is 6-7% grade for about 1/4 of a mile) to St Pius, then to Brosville and then walk the bike up Brosville 1/2 of a mile for it was to steep to bike. Brosville starts at a 31% Grade then goes down to 5-6% for a small piece then back up 12-13% grade as you reached the top.

Third Side note: Pittsburgh has two completely different sets of number streets (and one set of numbered Avenues). The Avenues go from downtown Pittsburgh eastward. The streets with street numbers i.e. 1st Street, 2nd Street, 3rd street, etc). but not marked South, runs south FROM the South shore of the Allegheny River. The streets numbered "South number" (South 1st Street, South 2nd Street, South 3rd Street etc) runs south from the south shore of the Monongahela River. Beside being in the same city, they have nothing to do with each other. Thus South 18th Street is the 18th Street going south from the Monongahela River NOT 18th Street.

Once at the intersection of Warrington Avenue and Arlington Avenue, it is an easy and quick peddle down Warrington Avenue till I arrived on Saw Mill Run Boulevard. At that point I then had a another set of choices:

1. Turn right and go up Crane Avenue, a narrow two lane road, no berm, 24% Grade on the bottom 1/4 mile and flat section for about 100 to 200 feet then a 12% grade for another 100-200 feet.

2. Or turn left and take West Liberty Avenue back. It was longer but bikable at less then 5% Grade, then Cape May at about 7% till it reaches Sebring. Sebring is at 12-15% Grade but only for a block.

Now I tended to opt for Crane on the way back to Beechview, it was steep so I always walked my bike, but it was that much shorter for it was most direct way home for me. If you notice on the way downhill I opt for West Liberty Avenue for it was quicker through longer for the steepness of Crane prevented rapid pace for it narrowed at the bottom and had a red light at that point. Crane was and is a bad road but I knew some short cuts through the woods to avoid some of it, but not the worse part (The lowest, narrowest part). Those short cuts were walkable shortcuts, they save you time if you were walking your bike, but not if you were riding. Thus I opt for West Liberty on the way to Oakland, but then opted for Crane on the way back.

My point is the routes I took were bikable (With the exception of Crane and River Road) do to being low speed, through heavy traffic roads (West Liberty Avenue, Warrington Avenue on top of Mt Washington proper and the roads on the South-side and Pittsburgh) OR low volume roads (Brosville or Monastery) or a road with heavy traffic and high speeds but decent, but not great berms (Warrington Avenue as it nears Saw Mill Run). Steepness is less of a problem then most people think, unless it gets over 10%, then you are better off walking.

The biggest factors I have found for biking are :

1. Does the road have a beam (or other place for a bike to duck into when needed). You need a beam of at least 18 inches, many of the roads I hate have a berm of six inches or less (it should be noted these roads also tend NOT to have Sidewalks). These roads also tend to be roads build prior to the 1930s, for by the late 1930s 18 inch berms started to be included when new roads were made, but that is NOT true of road built before the 1930s AND

2: the prevailing speed and volume of the traffic. Sidewalks tends to slow down traffic, even if the Bicycle stays off of Sidewalks as they should. I suspect auto drivers do not want to hit the berm with their tires, so they tend to stay away from the berm, making my biking a lot easier.

River road had no berm, traffic was heavy and fast and the road was just a terror to ride on given what the trucks did to it. Crane Avenue was bad do to its steepness, traffic and lack of a berm but less of a problem then River Road for the traffic was SLOWER for at the bottom of the hill the road narrowed and thus slowed down traffic (Narrow Roads slow down traffic even without bikes on those roads).

Notice it is a combination of problems, high speeds, high volume, no berms, no sidewalks, narrow lanes etc that makes a road bad for biking. One or two of these problems do not make the road bad, it is when you have most of them that the road is bad. Steepness is rarely a factor. To many hills is NEVER a problem without excessive speed, traffic volume, lack of a berm or sidewalk and narrow lanes. Thus it is the later that makes a road bad for biking hot hills.

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