This Is the Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry

[lordsummerisle]

outsideonline.com

(Not sure if this was the appropriate group for this but I'm sure I'll hear about it if it isn't.)

Opinion piece of where the alt meat industry is at and where it's going:

https://www.outsideonline.com/2399736/impossible-foods-beyond-meat-alt-meat

[democratisphere]

1. Bovine should be pets and not food.

Adopt a cow today.

[MLAA]

3. +10000000000000000000000000000 🐄🐄🐄🐄🐄🐄🐄🐄☺️☺️☺️☺️

[Cartoonist]

2. I'm ready

It seems like I can't get a decent burger anywhere these days, so my hamburger consumption has fallen off. I eat chicken to take up the slack. I also drink milk. From cows, not almonds.

[flvegan]

4. How fragile.

I hope you'll be okay. Elsewhere.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

5. Not really.

To start with, humans evolved as omnivores who ate cooked food. That's not going to go away.

And while I haven't yet tried the most recent meat substitutes, ones I have sampled leave a lot to be desired. Same with gluten free bread or pasta. I suspect cardboard would be tastier.

Now if you don't want to consume meat, that's fine. Just leave me to eat what I want.

[athena]

8. No one cares what you eat.

Feel free to stuff yourself with as much animal flesh and bodily secretions as you like. It's between you, your health, and your conscience.

This is the vegetarian, vegan, and animal rights group. How ironic that a meat-eater would come here spewing anti-vegan propaganda, while accusing us of not letting him eat what he wants.

ETA: Claiming that humans "evolved as omnivores" may make you feel better about your cruel and unnatural diet, but it happens to be false. Humans are herbivores. That is a scientific fact:

[unblock]

27. as the article points out, plant-based substitutes are less resource intensive and will improve,

whereas meat isn't and won't.


that means, over time, these plant-based substitutes will continue to get better and tastier and healthy and come in more of a variety and get cheaper and more popular as well.

food producers will trim back on meat production in favor of the ingredients that go into these substitutes.


will the meat industry die? not at all likely, certainly not any time soon. however, meat will become less popular, more expensive, and people will gradually shift away from it, if only due to market forces.

[Pobeka]

6. Too soon to know.

I read or heard there are a lot of new organic chemicals that are in the vege meats that have not been tested for human health, they have just said, well it's sorta like this other molecule we know about so it must be ok.

I have the feeling this is another marketing push to get this product out, and actual testing on human health has taken a back seat.

And the claims about better for the environment may be sketchy too -- there is a lot of processing that must happen post harvest to make the vege-meat. It's not necessarily less CO2 intensive than traditional meat. It will take a real, thorough, independent analysis to determine that too.

Reminds me of Olestra...

I do hope it does work out to be safe for human health and the environment. We certainly need it. I don't see americans chowing down on grasshoppers and ants for protein any time soon.

[athena]

10. What is dangerous is animal protein.

If you're that concerned about the safety of vegan food, I suggest you look into the safety of animal foods. Check out http://www.nutritionfacts.org to find out about the links between omnivorous diets and heart disease, Alzheimer's, and cancer.

This is the Vegetarian, Vegan, and Animal Rights forum. We don't eat insects here. Fruits, vegetables, grains, and nuts provide us with more than enough protein. Too much protein stresses the kidneys, by the way, and it's almost impossible not to eat too much protein without going vegan.

[LuvLoogie]

7. Do they have Impossible Carnitas?

[athena]

9. This is the Vegetarian, Vegan, and Animal Rights forum.

I suggest you delete your post, which is offensive in this forum.

[LuvLoogie]

11. I think this forum might be conflating diet choice with animal rights.

At some point the emotional/moral choice, where a reverence is applied to the life of the animal, becomes subjective and religious almost.

One can respect and even revere the life of a given animal and still consume it.

The article posted discusses the market of those who have a taste for flesh, but don't want the collateral damage associated with flesh consumption. Few want to know how the sausage gets made, as well.

Vegans and vegetarians are free to choose their diet. We eat less meat than we used to in our household, but we still consume it.

People who grow up on ranches know the ins and outs of the life and death of the animals they raise. Granted, the gluttony is out of hand, but I don't find the consumption of animal flesh morally depraved, per se. Animals eat other animals, animals are vegetarians, animals are omnivorous.

You can't fake eating meat. What's the point?

[mucifer]

12. If you eat meat especially factory farmed meat you don't respect animals

That's my belief from knowing what happens in the factory farms and knowing what your choices are for food and vitamins.

Posting photos of dead animals in this group is offensive. I suggest you take it down. I wouldn't say this in the general discussion forum. But, this is our group.

[flvegan]

13. Do share.

One cannot respect nor revere the life of a given animal and consume it in these modern times here.

There is no "conflating" anything here. You may want to, you know, check the name of the forum. Vegetarian, Vegan and Animal Rights. It's all in the name so as to not confuse morons.

[LuvLoogie]

14. Consuming an animal results in the death

of that animal. It always has. And they never go willingly. There is no avoiding it.

Chickens never want their necks wrung or their heads removed.

I could post a Julia Child video and ask is there an impossible Boeuf Buorguignon.

You assume the treatment of those animals, but you don't know from where the animals were sourced, how they were raised, how they were dispatched.

The OP asks if fake meat means the end of the meat industry. I doubt it will mean that. I posted the video to illustrate that. You can assume that the pigs are of the domestic variety and go back thousands of years and blame agrarian societies.

I assume some farmers read to their pigs. Then they kill them and eat them.

[athena]

15. Consuming an animal is not necessary.

You can choose not to support the killing of animals. There is no law that says that humans must eat animal flesh and bodily secretions. On the contrary, human anatomy shows that we are herbivores:

Over 99% of the animal products you buy at your grocery store come from the factory-farm industry. Even if you go out of your way to buy something advertised as coming from an independent farm, the animals were slaughtered at the same facilities as the factory-farmed animals (per USDA regulations). The piece of animal flesh on your dinner plate did not come from an idyllic farm where some guy in overalls read to his animals every night from children's story books.

You can choose to support the killing of animals and eat their flesh and bodily secretions. But when you then claim that you "respect and even revere the life of" the animal whose torture, killing, and dismembering you paid for, you are fooling no one but yourself.

[LuvLoogie]

16. It often IS necessary. Learning to swim isn't necessary, but it might save your life.

The Inuit and Sami find consuming animals necessary. and many would agree with them. Some people even harvest and consume ant larvae.

How do you think Kiviak was invented?

I'll bet it was because some hunter scored on a bunch of little auks and was going to bring them back to camp when he got eaten buy a polar bear. So his camp ran out of food in the middle of winter and were going to die when they ran across his seal skin full of little birds that were now fermented. But they didn't bother to pluck or cook those little suckers. They just tore into them because those people were about to die. And it was the best damn meal the ever had, so they figured out how to do it again on purpose.

That's how cheese was invented. Spoiled milk that didn't kill you when you ate it.

I mean cheese isn't necessary either, but it's damn good grated on some pasta Bolognese.

[athena]

17. Are you Inuit? Do you live in an area where you have no access to vegetables, fruits, and grains?

If you do have that access, and you are still choosing to hand over your hard-earned money to the factory-farm industry to torture, kill, and dismember defenseless animals for profit, you don't have a logical leg to stand on.

Eat what you want. It's between you, your health, and your conscience. But when you go over to a veg*n forum and argue that eating animals is necessary and equivalent to respecting and revering them, you are only advertising your own hypocrisy.

[LuvLoogie]

18. If I want to eat a steak, what is an acceptable source in your view? If there is no acceptable

Last edited Sat Sep 14, 2019, 09:03 PM - Edit history (1)

source, in your view, then what's the point in arguing. The OP purports that fake ground beef is the end of the beef industry. I doubt it.

Humans evolved as hunter-gatherers. Then they decided to stop roaming and raise plants and animals for food and work.

If you are arguing that the mere consumption of an animal violates its rights and is an immoral choice, then I would argue that is a religious argument.

If you want to argue a move to locally sourced, organically grown, free range food, I don't think that's unreasonable.

But you should be honest about your arguments. Are you an absolutist, or is there room for omnivores in your world without meat-shaming them?

[flvegan]

19. "I want" "humans evolved" blah fucking blah

Another fucking idiot finds his/her way into the wrong forum.

[LuvLoogie]

20. Okay, I'll ask you. Is there any acceptable source for a chuck roast, in your view?

There has to be some level at which you could accept that a family of four could have a pot roast. Your forum is listed in the Environment and Energy category. If you can't find it acceptable at any level, perhaps the forum should be moved into the Activism category, or the Religion category.

Rather than call people morons and idiots, think about what you're trying to accomplish and why.

[Mendocino]

23. You say:

Last edited Sun Sep 15, 2019, 09:27 PM - Edit history (1)

"Your forum is listed in the Environment and Energy category"

No, it's in the Vegetarian, Vegan and Animal Rights group.

A group has different standards.

[LuvLoogie]

24. I understand what the group name is,

but it is categorized on this site under Environment and Energy.
There are several Categories which each contain various Forums and Groups
Three of those Categories are Environment & Energy, Religion & Spirituality, and Activism

This group is listed under Environment & Energy

[athena]

25. People have different reasons for being vegan.

Some are concerned about their health. Some have had a heart attack and have heard about Dr. Esselstyn reversing heart disease through a low-fat vegan diet. Some have read Dr. Greger's book about how to prevent the most common diseases that kill Americans. Some have had family members die from Alzheimer's, and they don't want to end up the same way. Others don't care very much about their own health, but they want to reduce their environmental footprint. Still others are not against killing and eating animals, but they know that over 99% of the animal products at their grocery store come from the factory-farm industry, and they don't want to support that evil industry with their hard-earned money. And, finally, others believe sincerely that killing another living being is wrong, and they know that they can live a healthier and happier life as a vegan.

Thanks for your efforts, but we're not going to have a meat-eating propagandist tell us why we're veg*n and where our forum should be.

In my experience, the people who argue the loudest with vegans are the ones who are the most uncomfortable with their own meat-eating. Often, they scream, yell, act obnoxious, throw insults, and then, after a while, they go vegan. So you may think you're annoying people here, but you're actually quite amusing. I wish you luck in your journey toward veganism.

[LuvLoogie]

29. I didn't scream. I didn't yell. But I did ask a couple group members if there was any condition

where consuming meat by the average citizen was acceptable in their view. As you said people come to their vegetarianism for various reasons. There are probably more than a handful that don't have animal rights as their motivation.

You say I'm being a propagandist, but I am not try to dissuade anyone from their choices. But members of this group have refered to me as a hypocrite, a moron, and a fucking idiot. Just for asking questions and stating an opinion. I think I've been pretty polite about it, too.

But again, the OP makes an assertion that I find unlikely. That's all.

[athena]

30. You posted a meat recipe video on a veg*n group,

forcing members to look at a revolting image of flesh being cooked in a pan, even if they chose not to play the video.

And you refused to edit your message to take down the video, even after it was pointed out to you that it was offensive in this group.

I would argue that that's equivalent to screaming and yelling. It is certainly not respectful, let alone polite, and I can't for the life of me understand why the moderator is still letting you post here.

Once again, this is a veg*n forum. It is a place for veg*ns to discuss issues of concern to us. It is not a place for answering questions from meat-eaters, and certainly not a place for meat-eaters to post meat recipes in an attempt to get a reaction from vegans. I'm now putting you on ignore.

[lunasun]

28. Do you dislike when trump trolls come on general DU political forums and try totell us what's right?

and how we should think ? And continue to do so? Then reply snowflake or something ?
Have some respect for a group posting @ DU
FYI
This is a group, not a forum. Groups often serve as safe havens for members who share similar interests and viewpoints. Individuals who post messages contrary to a particular group's stated purpose can be excluded from posting in that group. For detailed information about this group and its purpose, click here.

Statement of Purpose

A safe haven for anyone interested in vegetarianism, veganism, and animal rights, to discuss health and animal related issues, organize, exchange recipes, support each other, and network.

[athena]

21. Once again, feel free to eat as much steak as you want.

You seem to have reading comprehension problems. Eat whatever you want. It's between you, your health, and your conscience, as I've said before.

The longer you go on with your pro-meat proselytizing in this veg*n forum, the more you demonstrate that it's the meat-eaters who are trying to shove their diet down everybody's throats, not the other way around. You're coming across not only as a pro-meat fanatic, but as someone who has no manners whatsoever.

Eat a pound of steak a day if you wish. The more animals you eat, the sooner you'll die of some horrible disease, so be my guest.

[athena]

22. Great article.

It's interesting that the writer prefers Impossible beef to real beef.

It looked identical to ground beef, so that’s how I treated it. And that’s how it performed. I made sliders, kebabs, nachos, chili, Bolognese sauce, even a little tartare (note: the company frowns hard on this).

If I’m being honest, I find that I slightly prefer it to real beef. It’s rich and juicy, more savory, but still somehow cleaner and less cloying. Now when I go back to regular beef, I notice a whiff of the charnel house in it, something musty and gray that I don’t like and don’t need.

In the coming years, expect a lot of other omnivores to have similar epiphanies. Impossible Foods has performed more than 26,000 blind taste tests on its burger, which is on track to surpass ground beef in those tests in the near future. What happens then? Impossible has been laser focused on creating the perfect simulacrum of ground beef. But why? The cow never had a lock on gastronomic perfection. It was just the best we could do given the limitations of the natural material. Firelight was fine until electricity came along. Then things got really interesting.

Look for something similar to happen with alt meat. For now, it’s necessary to make people comfortable with the familiar, the way Steve Jobs loaded the early iPhones with faux felt and wood grain. But once people stop expecting burgers to refer to a hunk of flesh, the brakes on deliciousness will be released.

[Quemado]

26. "...cattle are looking more and more like stranded assets..."

I hope this becomes reality.

I converted to veganism two years ago, and I'm not going back. I did it to lose weight. I lost 60 lbs. I feel better.

[athena]

31. Congratulations!

I bet your cholesterol numbers are great, too. I didn't lose weight, but I stopped gaining, and my cholesterol dropped and has stayed low.