Jews Barred From Temple Mount Ahead of Muslim Holiday

[oberliner]

Israel Police announced Wednesday evening that the Temple Mount complex in Jerusalem will not be open to Jews or other visitors Thursday, during the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha (Feast of Sacrifice). Muslim worship at the site, which has been scene to increasing violence in recent weeks, will be unrestricted and Palestinians from the West Bank will be permitted access.

The decision – probably taken in wake of pressure from Jordan – is the most recent in a string of attempts to defuse tensions at the flashpoint hilltop Jerusalem compound known to Muslims as the Noble Sanctuary and to Jews as the Temple Mount.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.677227

Jews not allowed to pray there. Muslim worship unrestricted.

Palestinians from the West Bank permitted access. Israeli Jews, not.

[unc70]

1. The reverse was true the last few days

The restrictions were on Muslims.

[geek tragedy]

2. Israel has a permanent de facto blockade of that area and forbids most

Palestinians from entering it. 100% have been banned from it for days or weeks now! with no protests from y'all.

Amazing how even the supposedly secular liberal hasbarists are itching to start a war with Jordan over this.

[oberliner]

7. That's a lie

And it's fascinating that you are good with Israeli barring all non-Muslims from entering.

[geek tragedy]

14. I don't think there should be a war with Jordan.

Slippery slope is in effect--if they start using it as a worship site, they'll want a permanent structure there.

Israel has permanently banned all Palestinian men under 45 from worshipping there.

[oberliner]

17. Nor do I

Palestinian citizens of Israel, regardless of their age, are (and have always been) welcome to worship there. It is only Jewish citizens of Israel who are restricted from doing so.

I think it is preposterous that the idea of Jewish people praying would be so offensive that it could serve as a pretext for launching a war.

As I pointed out elsewhere on this thread, there are mosques being blown up and Muslim worshippers being killed across the region, in many cases while at prayer. And yet that does not seem to animate the leaders of Jordan in the same way that Jews praying does. Does that not seem incongruous to you?

Is it so offensive to just say that people of all faiths can pray there if they do so in a respectful way without disrupting others?

[geek tragedy]

22. the people praying are merely the foot in the door, the tip of the spear.

Where religious extremists go, they bring their own guns, the IDF, and construction.

Cute how you overlook the fact that most Palestinians are forbidden from entering Jerusalem to worship at those sites.

And you wonder why they don't trust the Israelis to play nice and share.

[Mosby]

95. So freedom only applies to some

Is that really your position?

[geek tragedy]

113. No, that's the Israeli position. I know you and your fellow travelers really

want to build on that site and kick the Muslims out, but you'll have to pay the price.

Given that Israel effectively annexed the West Bank and established an apartheid state there, no there's zero reason for the Palestinians to 'share' with the Israelis. The Israelis don't share--they take away. That's how they roll.

In any event, in 100 years or so Jews and Muslims will both be able to pray there freely, under the protections of a secular, binational state that is neither Jewish nor Muslim, and protects the rights of all equally.

[King_David]

114. Wishful thinking

It's good to dream.

But those really involved, unlike you will never agree to your utopian fantasy.

[geek tragedy]

116. go on and whistle past that graveyard.

it will probably take several decades of apartheid and pariah status before Israel concedes that Zionism is, like Communism, a failed ideology that sowed the seeds of its own destruction.

Israel had 50 years to get the f@ck out of the West Bank and save itself. They blew it, not for themselves (those alive get to benefit from the apartheid), but for all future generations.

This is something Israel did to itself. It was not Nasser, or Saddam, or the ayatollahs who succeeding in defeating Israel and Zionism. It was the religious Zionists and rightwing inside Israel who carved justice out of the heart of Zionism and replaced it with petty, nasty, European-style nationalism fused with backwards, tribal religious fervor.

Israel is never leaving the West Bank, which means the West Bank and its people will always be part of Israel.

The question is not whether, it's when, the whole house of cards collapses

[King_David]

118. Try push that Zionist square through your circle

But that is just wishful thinking on your behalf.

None of the democratic leaders including Obama nor Sanders nor Clinton believe any of the rubbish you just posted there.

[geek tragedy]

120. hey, feel free to demonstrate how Israel can withdraw from the West Bank

because if you can't conceive how that happens, you really don't have an argument that Israel's going to be around in 100 years

[King_David]

121. 1000 years

But me and you won't be around.

[geek tragedy]

122. so you don't have an argument that Israel can leave the west bank.

Which means within 50 years, the Land of Israel will be a majority-Arab/Muslim, which will make Israel an apartheid state.

I guess you envision Israel surviving as an apartheid state for 950 years. That would be unfortunate.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

142. He never did. That's why his arguments always fall on their face.

Weak sauce at best.

[King_David]

9. Is Bernie Sanders a "Hasbarist"?

My views on Israel are exactly the same as his.

Your views as espoused here daily as far as Israel is concerned are diametrically opposite.

So is the 1st Jewish President of the USA to be a "Hasbarist " ?

[oberliner]

10. Mosques are being blown up around the world with countless Muslims killed

And yet this is what Jordan threatens to start a war over.

[King_David]

11. Of course ...

Jews shouldn't be allowed to pray.



And there's people here on DU that support this nonsense.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

63. There's always the Kotel that Jews can pray at. Right?

But like anything that Yehuda Glick Israelis put their minds to, if they can tear down something Palestinian then they can erase it with a shiny new temple.

[Mosby]

94. What the fuck are you going on about?

Do you think Jews should be able to pray at their holiest site?

Yes or no.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

102. There is no site. It's a mosque. It's been a mosque for 1,400 years.

To put this into context, a mosque has existed on that site for about 500 more years than both temples, if there ever were two temples, have existed collectively.

But let's just erase that fact because some Yehuda Glick fundamentalist assholes have decided that they are going to push the Palestinians out of the area one way or another.

Pray at the Kotel or one of the other million Synagogs that Israel has created and leave Al Aqua to the Muslims.

[Mosby]

104. The mosque was built on top of two temples

The first Jewish temple was built almost 1700 years before the alaksa mosque.

This is a historical fact.

What's not clear is whether the mosque of Omar is the "farthest mosque"; unlike the jewish history at the site, there is no way to confirm the religious Islamic version of history found in the Koran and hadiths as it relates to Mohammads life.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

106. Wrong as you usually are.

The Present Mosque was built on the ruins of an older mosque, which was in tur built on the ruins of an even older mosque.

In fact 5 mosques have stood on that sight going back to the late 600s: some 1,400 years ago.

There is no historical record, IMHO, where the first Temple stood, but the point is moot seeing how there has been no temple there since the year 135.

Give it up the revisionist Yehuda Glick history, leave the muslims alone and go pray some place else. Israel has stolen enough from the Palestinian people.

[Mosby]

117. that's an interesting "progressive" opinion RDO

I can only speak for myself but your position re the temple mount seems really intolerant towards non Muslims.

People should be able to pray where they want.

You give yourself away when you use religious "history" as facts. There has been only one mosque on the Temple Mount, it was build in the 700s after the Muslims conquered J'Lem.

[King_David]

119. Give up Judaism holiest site he says and go pray somewhere else he says

That site is not even Islams holiest site and yet he has the chutzpah to say "go pray somewhere else".

LOL

He's become very religious using Islamic religious arguments and somehow believes he speaks for Muslims and as well Palestinians.....

BIZARRE

[geek tragedy]

133. Christians did pretty well when they decided to give up on holy sites and Crusades and turned

their attention to the rest of the planet.

turns out fixating on 'holy sites' is generally a really awful idea.

[King_David]

134. Agreed , for both sides..

Bulldoze the whole place ....

The poster here however has become religious for one side over the other and has become a religious spokesman for The Islamic nation.

[King_David]

137. You think religious Christians are worth emulating?

[geek tragedy]

138. no, pointing out that their fortunes picked up when they stopped obsessing

over a patch of desert at the expense of the rest of the world.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

139. Yes, I do have the chutzpah to stand up for the victims.

There hasn't been a temple in the area for 1,700 years.

The ziofundies, and their yesmen, should just deal with it and build their temple some place else.


Yes, I do have the chutzpah to say it, king, you apparently don't.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

140. "Give up Judaism holiest site..."

For somebody that claims to be an atheist you sure are rooting for prayer by fundamentalists.

[King_David]

115. The poster your engaging seems to have become a critic of Jewish faith and articles

And an expert on Islam.

He's trying to turn this into a very religious argument, with him being the spokesman for Islam critiquing the Jewish faith and beliefs..

Bizarre does not adequately describe his religious arguments and now expertise on Islam and the spokesman for that religion in this secular group.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

141. "The poster your engaging seems to have become a critic of Jewish faith and articles"

Wrong again, king. I just don't like Israeli fundamentalists believing they can push their way onto the temple mount like they have pushed their way into the West Bank.

The only victims here are the Palestinians.

But it is certainly strange that you bring up the religion aspect whereas I have been citing facts.


Your tell, king, your tell.

[geek tragedy]

123. Lol, no it was not built on top of a temple. It was built on top of the

ruins of several other mosques, which in turn were built on top of a secular administrative building and fort, not a temple.

[Mosby]

124. the alaksa mosque was built in the 700s

And has been rebuilt several times. It was greatly enlarged in the 1100s but it is the only mosque to exist on the temple mount.

Despite Muslim religious "history" there is no evidence that Mohammad ever vistited J'lem, it's just a religious myth.

[King_David]

125. And proof that Muhammed ascended to heaven from Jerusalem ?

[geek tragedy]

127. do you realize how stupid it looks for one side in a religous dispute to complain that the other

side's beliefs aren't verified by empirical science and data?

[King_David]

128. I am an Atheist myself,

But what is really hilarious is those belittling Jewish beliefs and holding up as true Muslim beliefs , where that person is not a part of either.


LOL

[geek tragedy]

129. both sides are peddling superstitions, but it's not superstitions

that are driving the current conflict, which is at its core nothing more than a tribal land war.

[King_David]

130. Agreed

[geek tragedy]

126. all religion is myth by definition, as is your claim that the mosque was built on top of a temple

that mosque is built on the site of the Royal Stoa, a secular building.

Dome of the Rock may very well be where the temple once stood (though we'll never know). But, that shrine isn't going anywhere.

While we're at it, please forgive those of us who do not find the public works of Herod to be the stuff of religious inspiration.

It is highly doubtful that any deity would choose such a monster to be his instrument on earth.

[oberliner]

131. So you accept that the Royal Stoa existed?

What else do you accept was located where the Temple Mount is today?

For instance, what other buildings were on the other side of the Western Wall?

What is the "Second Temple" exactly? Was that just a myth?

[geek tragedy]

132. I see no reason to dispute that 1900 years ago there was a Jewish temple there.

Most likely where the Dome on the Rock is.

1900 years ago it ceased to exist, because it was was destroyed. By the Roman Emperor Titus.

1300+ years before Constantinople fell to the Turks and Andalucía was reconquered by the Christians. Centuries before there was a single Muslim.

When people say something is "ancient history" that means it's time to move on.

[oberliner]

135. Do you think Mohammed ascended to heaven at the spot where the Dome of the Rock is located?

Of the many supernatural events that Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe took place in and around that area, do you believe any of them actually happened or are they all just myths?

[geek tragedy]

136. I don't believe in supernatural events, so no. nt

[geek tragedy]

12. Bernie Sanders is not taking a position to the right

of Benjamin Netanyahu, as some are in this thread.

[King_David]

16. With the anti Zionist rhetoric and anti Israel extremism

Displayed here in this group , it's neither right nor left but diametrically opposite to Bernies position. ( the soon to be 1st Jewish President of the USA)

There's a poster who posts a vanity blog here 3-4 x day called Mondoweiss that recently supported Anne Coulters antisemitic tweets - is that left wing?

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/09/republicans-donors-coulters

[geek tragedy]

29. Bernie is more responsible than Netanyahu.

As opposed to those here who think Benjamin Netanyahu is betraying Jews while trying to appease Muslims.

While purporting to be liberals.

[King_David]

40. Bernies views on Israel are identical to half those posting in this group

And diametrically opposite to the other half of those posting in this group.

The single issue antiZionist posting in this group is neither left nor right as posting from Mondoweiss who supports Anne Coulter.... And absolutely opposite to Bernie Sanders.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

64. Who are you calling an anti-zionist, dave?

If zionism=illegal occupation of Palestine then I am against zionism.

If zionism=illegal colonization of Palestine then I am against zionism.

If zionism=sniping of Palestinians then I am against zionism.

If zionism=theft of Palestinian lands then I am against zionism.

If zionism=destruction of Palestinian property then I am against zionism.

If zionism=the apartheid of the Palestinian people then I am against zionism.

If zionism=murder of Palestinians then I am against zionism.

[oberliner]

20. Step away from politics for a moment

I don't know what religion you follow, if any, or how important religious faith is to you, but can't you see that the idea of being offended to the point of wanting to start a war over Jews standing around and praying is not an especially progressive approach?

The idea that Jews praying in this location is considered a "desecration" - that just cannot be something that progressives endorse.

It seems like you are keen to make accommodations for the fundamentalists in one religious community but not another.

Mosques are being blown up around the world, with worshippers being killed by the score - and yet that does not seem to generate the same kind of fury as Jews standing around and praying somewhat near this mosque.

Do you not see something incongruous about that?

[geek tragedy]

23. The issue isn't Jews standing around praying, it's what follows after that.

And what follows after that is more and more religiously fanatic Jews, with guns and the IDF not far behind.

There is nothing innocent about this whole game. This is about power and control.

They want to run the same playbook they successfully ran in the West Bank--creeping annexation.

The Muslims recognize that where this ends is Muslims being evicted from that site.

[King_David]

24. Of course a few Jews from a total of 12 Million should not be allowed to pray at their holiest site

But any Muslim out of 2 Billion is of course allowed to pray at this site that is not their holiest site at all.

Strange "progressive " case to ignore minority rights.

Also the reason for Israel's existence.

[geek tragedy]

25. You're deliberately ignoring the point, this is not about "a few Jews."

Any more than the colonization of the west bank was about the "few Jews" who first started establishing settlements there.

Where a few Jews go, then more will go, and then more will go. And the IDF will follow. And pretty soon it's a Jews-only establishment.

The goal is not prayer, it is power and control. Just like it was with the slow-motion annexation of the West Bank. The Israelis do not believe in sharing or respecting the rights of Arabs and Muslims.

The king of Jordan is not going to be the guy who lost al-Aqsa and the Dome on the Rock to the Baruch Goldstein crowd.

Also, 99.99% of the world's Muslims aren't allowed to pray at that site.

[King_David]

26. So best to trample on Minority rights

To appease the majority... ?

That's the reason Israel exists and Faldo the reason Jewish Holy sites will always remain in control of the Jewish state.

[oberliner]

27. Who is Faldo?

That is quite a humorous auto-correct.

[King_David]

41. Ha ha

"Also"

[geek tragedy]

28. Jews are the majority, dominant, privileged group inside Israel.

The problem is that the nutjob religious Zionists won't be content until they've evicted the Muslims from Al-Aqsa and turned Dome on the Rock into a synagogue.

And--reminder--religious Zionists largely call the shots inside Israel these days.

If Israel had demonstrated an ability to share and be respectful of the rights of Arabs and Muslims, we'd be having a different conversation.

But no one trusts the beneficiaries of an apartheid, expansionist, ethno-religious-nationalist, militaristic state when they say "trust us, this won't hurt."

[oberliner]

31. But we're talking about Jews standing around just mumbling quietly to themselves.

That is literally what these folks want to do there and what is considered so egregiously offensive that some other folks think it is worth going to war over.

I would also point out - as I have elsewhere on this thread and in the past - that Jordan did not demonstrate an ability to share and be respectful of the rights of Israelis and Jews during their occupation of E Jerusalem so it's more than slightly hypocritical to hear them say what they are saying now in this context.

[geek tragedy]

37. Do you really think that it would end with very small groups standing around mumbling to themselves?

That it would go no further than that?

That the religious Zionists wouldn't use that opening to push their agenda of confrontation?

"It's only one cigarette" isn't very persuasive if the room is soaked in gasoline.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

66. "But we're talking about Jews standing around just mumbling quietly to themselves."

Well, they can "mumble" at the Kotel. Right?

[King_David]

39. The very reason the Jewish state exists

And Jewish holy sites will never be trusted in other hands as it was once before.

[geek tragedy]

42. Are there currently Jewish holy sites in the hands of others? nt

[oberliner]

47. Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron

In theory all of Hebron is considered a Jewish holy city, but in particular the tombs of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Leah, Rebecca, and Sarah.

The Tomb of the Patriarchs is considered the second holiest site in Judaism after the Temple Mount.

Today the site is under the control of the Muslim Waqf who have made attempts to de-Judaize the location and do not allow access to Jews to the tombs of Isaac and Rebecca.

[geek tragedy]

48. The IDF controls access to the site, and regulate the activities of the mosque there, forbidding

calls to worship whenever the fanatics in Kiryat Arba and environs complain about the noise.

You can guess to which group of people they provide separate but unequal treatment in terms of access.

There are 150,000 Muslims living in Hebron. There are around 500 Kahanist settlers who actively revere Baruch Goldstein.

[oberliner]

51. This is not true

Jews are not permitted on the "mosque side" (which is where Isaac and Rebecca's tombs are located).

Hebron was once the site of the oldest Jewish community in the world, dating back thousands of years.

This community was repeatedly harassed, abused, and expelled, but would continually attempt to return to their homeland.

For example when the city was conquered by Crusaders in 1100, the Jewish community was expelled entirely. They returned a hundred years later, only to be subject to a massive pogrom by the Ottoman conquerers in the early 16th century.

This happened time and time again over ensuing centuries with various conquering armies and empires who attempted to expel the Jews from this city (or worse). The most recent massacre of the Jewish community there taking place in 1929.

[geek tragedy]

52. So what? 99.7% of the people living there are Muslims/Arabs, not Jews.

Both sides would do well to stop obsessing about pieces of barren dirt where famous people allegedly lived and died thousands of years ago. Religion isn't about dirt.

[oberliner]

54. You asked for someone to identify a Jewish holy site under these conditions

I was just identifying such a location.

I would point out that the reason 99.7 percent of the people living there are Muslims/Arabs and not Jews has at least a little to do with the historical conquest of the city by people who didn't want Jews to be living there and expelled or killed them.

Hebron had a substantial Jewish population before there was even such a thing as a Muslim, hence all the "pieces of barren dirt" that some folks obsess over.

You know how there are Palestinians whose great-grandparents were expelled from what is now Israel but still feel connected to that land and feel they have the right to return to living there? That's how some Jewish people feel about Hebron, except it's great great great grandparents in most cases.

[geek tragedy]

55. that right of return thing is going to get interesting

once the one-state solution thing begins to gain recognition. it was an obvious non-starter when there was hope for a two-state solution, but now . . .

But, let's assume that you are correct, it would seem that King David has some radical, dangerous ideas about what should be done.

[Little Tich]

71. The settlement in Hebron would have to be removed as a part of any two-state solution, even the

Geneva Initiative.

It's conceivable that it would have to be removed even as part of a one-state solution as well. Those settlers are just too crazy.

[Mosby]

96. Some of those jewish families in hebron

Have been living in the area for more than 700 years.

[Little Tich]

97. If they want to live there, they can rent like anyone else and be good neighbours.

Do you actually think a 700 year old Jewish link is better than a 700 year old Palestinan one? Logically, if Jews can refer to their link and live in Hebron, then there are like 5 million Palestinian refugees who can refer to their link to what is now Israel to return and live in Israel...

[azurnoir]

73. Israel routinely restricts muezzin calls to prayer from the mosque because they bother the settlers

[King_David]

62. The last time the Kotel was in Jordan's hands Jews were barred from visiting

That's the reason it never will ever happen again.

[geek tragedy]

56. Do you consider the Cave of the Patriarchs to be in the hands of others?

If so, how do you propose that Israel hold it when the area population is 99.7% non-Jewish?

Does religion trump law and human rights?

[oberliner]

57. I am not proposing a change to the current arrangement

I just wish there was a way that everyone could have access to their holy sites and not be fanatical about it (on all sides).

[geek tragedy]

58. question was directed at King David who

wrote:

Jewish holy sites will never be trusted in other hands as it was once before.

He seems to think that Jewish religious sentiment trumps other considerations, including law and human rights and avoiding war.

[King_David]

61. Apparently you think so,

You're all for freedom of religion for the Muslims on the Temple Mount but for limiting the human rights of Jews and not allowing this minority group freedom of religion to pray at their Holiest site.

[geek tragedy]

69. You keep on ignoring the main issue.

This has as much to do with religious freedom as Kim Davis.

[King_David]

74. Chalk and Cheese

Apples and Oranges

[geek tragedy]

75. rather disingenuous to pretend this is about a few

praying Jews rather than a naked power play.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

77. And that's the way they are playing it in Isrrael. Always playing honest. Always playing victim.

And always looking for a way to take what doesn't belong to them.

Yehuda Glick zionists.

[oberliner]

30. Speaking of Jordan

When Jordan had control of E. Jerusalem during their occupation of the West Bank, how did they treat the Jewish holy sites? How did they deal with Jewish people who were already living there? With what degree of reverence and respect did they care for the ancient synagogues that were located there? In what way did they accommodate Jewish people wishing to visit the Jewish Quarter and the important Jewish religious sites contained therein?

Do you think Israel ought to look to follow Jordan's example?

[geek tragedy]

32. Israel should continue to honor the agreement with Jordan that has kept the peace

between the two countries for the past 50 years.

[oberliner]

36. I completely agree. Here's what it says about Jerusalem:

Article 9 - Places of Historical and Religious Significance and Interfaith Relations
1. Each Party will provide freedom of access to places of religious and historical significance.
2. In this regard, in accordance with the Washington Declaration, Israel respects the present special role of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in Muslim Holy shrines in Jerusalem. When negotiations on the permanent status will take place, Israel will give high priority to the Jordanian historic role in these shrines.
3. The Parties will act together to promote interfaith relations among the three monotheistic religions, with the aim of working towards religious understanding, moral commitment, freedom of religious worship, and tolerance and peace.


I bolded number three because I think that is relevant in this context. Especially freedom of religious worship, tolerance and peace.

[geek tragedy]

38. But #3 does not mean undermining #2.

And, whether Israel likes it or not, that means it can't unilaterally open the floodgates for Naftali Bennet et al to turn that site into a settlement.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

65. Ah, hope springs eternal with the ever-present view of the colonizer.

BTW, dave, there is no temple. A mosque exists there now.

Deal with it instead of making excuses.



Yehuda Glick zionists should be happy praying at the Kotel instead of spreading unrest in the name of zionism.


Glick attempting to harass muslims on Al Asqua is like David Duke singing God Bless America in Furgeson.

You both know their motive ahead of time.

[King_David]

72. You really wasting your time talking to me

I have explained many times I don't ever engage you... I don't reply to you and I will not either , for good reason.

If I put you on ignored like others do, gaps show up in the thread and it's difficult to follow.... I've told you this all before but looks like you forgot?

Just so you know.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

76. "I don't ever engage you... I don't reply to you and I will not either"

Looks like you don't really understand what you were writing.

[Israeli]

3. Conflagration on the island of stability

FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 2015

On Sunday last week, Prime Minister Netanyahu sent an official greeting to the citizens of Israel on the occasion of the Jewish New Year, telling them how lucky they all were.......

"Over the past year we have seen how special is the State of Israel. All around us, the ground is shaking - but Israel is an island of stability, of prosperity. We have established here a magnificent country, a free, vibrant, creative democracy, a beacon of sanity and progress" said the Prime Minister, adding, "Our first priority is to continue to surrounding the State of Israel with security fences."

Two and a half days after that graceful greeting, the Prime Minister chaired an emergency cabinet meeting concerned to address the conflagration raging in the city of Jerusalem, not far from his bureau - widespread riots, widespread clashes between police and Palestinian demonstrators, dramatic footage from Jerusalem getting to the focus of world news...

As in many past cases the spark that set off the Jerusalem conflagration came from the holy compound known to Jews as Har Ha-Bayit (Temple Mount) and to Muslims as Haram a-Sharif (The Noble Sanctuary).

This is the place where the Jewish Temple had stood - rather, two consecutive Temples, the second one of which had been destroyed by the legions of the Roman Empire in 70 AD. The Jews carried the memory of the Temple with them throughout their wanderings, and in their collective consciousness the Temple was cleansed from the corruption that characterized its priests during much of its existence and became the very quintessence of beauty and perfection, the ultimate dream of redemption for countless generations. After centuries of later Roman and early Byzantine rule, during which the site was used as a garbage dump, the armies of Islam came to Jerusalem. The Muslims cleaned up the garbage and constructed there the Al-Aqsa Mosque, which is for the past 1300 years the third holiest site in Islam, immediately after Mecca and Medina. According to Muslim belief, this is the place where the Prophet Muhammad arrived in his miraculous Night Journey on the back of his flying horse.

For many generations the Jewish religion was led by wise Rabbis who were well aware of the dangers inherent in a religious conflict over such a sensitive site. They found a sophisticated theological way to defuse this bomb, instructing the faithful that the Temple is too holy a place, not to be violated by the passage of mundane feet. Ascent to this awesome place should be postponed until the arrival of the Messiah. In the meantime, observant Jews were instructed to go on praying at the Wailing Wall, a remnant of the Temple - as they have been doing for generation after generation, century after century.

Nowadays, however, the Jewish religion – at least in the version dominant in Israel – has undergone a mutation. Increasingly, religious leaders are calling on their flock to ascend en masse the Temple Mount, to hold prayers there, drive a wedge of Jewish presence into the site and eventually destroy the Mosque and build the Third Temple instead. Once, this kind of "Temple Seekers" had been tiny groups, considered crackpots even in the right-wing milieu. Not anymore. Like other "wild growing weeds" in the Israeli society, they grew and greatly multiplied, gaining the open support of what passes for mainstream Knesset Members, including cabinet ministers.

The official position of the government of Israel is that Jews - and other non-Muslims - should have the chance to visit the mount. To that, as such, the Muslim authorities did not express any opposition – indeed, they sell admittance tickets from which a considerable source of income is derived. But in recent months, there is a constant increase in the number and size of organized groups of extreme right Jewish Israelis, who make no secret of their intentions and desire to become not visitors but landlords and eventually dispossess the Muslims. This inevitable brought an increasing number of incidents and confrontations. For some time the police began to prohibit the entry of Muslim aged less than fifty, but continued to allow the entry of Palestinian women. Thereupon, groups of Muslim women organized and clashed with right-wingers, who demanded that Muslim women be banned as well. In the past months police began a new procedure, to altogether prevent Muslims from ascending the mount in the morning hours, so as "to prevent attacks on Jewish visitors" - which aroused the suspicion of an intention to create a new status, with some hours reserved for Jewish prayer.

And so we came to past week - the week of the Jewish New Year. Most Israeli citizens took advantage of it for relaxation and recreation and barbequing in public spaces. But hundreds of religious nationalists announced their intention to celebrate the New Year by ascending Temple Mount and holding there a public prayer. They were led by Uri Ariel, Agriculture Minister in the Netanyahu Government, and among them were also the Young Guard of Netanyahu's Likud Party, declaring their determination to "assert Jewish Sovereignty."

To get around the police limitations, dozens of young Palestinians rushed to defend their Holy Site, arriving already on the previous night and camping at the mosques in order to face the Israeli right-wingers. In the early morning, a large police force raided the mosques in order to "safeguard the visit of the Jews" and had a very violent clash with the youngsters. Dozens of young Palestinians were detained and others were pushed into the mosque and the doors barred, whereupon Minister Ariel and his fellows arrived under heavy police guard. The Minister held an ostentatious prayer on the Mount and promised to return the next day.

Hearing the news, many hundreds of Muslims flocked to the mosques. The police began preventing the entry of "Muslim troublemakers" on the basis of lists of names and photographs compiled by the Security Services. The people denied entry clashed violently with police in the alleys around the perimeter of the Sacred Mount. The clashes quickly spread all over East Jerusalem. All along the winding "Seam Line" - separating Arab neighborhoods from the Jewish ones built on confiscated Palestinian land - there broke out riots, clashes and the hurling of stones, firecrackers and petrol bombs. An Israeli driver, the 64-year old Alexander Levlovitz, was killed in a car accident. Police determined that the accident was caused by stones hitting his vehicle, causing him to lose control.

Israeli media focused mainly on the death of Levlovitz - much less on the events which preceded it. The mass circulation papers competed in composing inflammatory headlines: "Alexander was murdered on the way the from holiday dinner" / "Rampaging Stone Terrorism!" / "The Stone Kills, A Stone is a Murder Weapon" / "Stop the Murderers!" / "In the Streets of Jerusalem, Terrorism Never Sleeps" / "A Capital City Under Attack!"/ "Stop the Leniency to Stone Throwers! "/ "Needed – an Iron Fist!". Indeed, in the emergency cabinet meeting, held at the heart of the PM’s Beacon of Stability and Progress, Netanyahu pushed through a whole series of harsh measures against stone throwers and against the parents of stone-throwers - heavy fines, requiring judges to impose long prison terms, changing the rules of engagement to give police more freedom to shoot, placing snipers to target stone-throwers from a distance.

Meanwhile, reactions in the international arena tend to point at the source of the problem – the attempts of a Jewish take-over of a Muslim Holy Place. Russia, the EU, the UN and the State Department all issued stern calls upon the government of Israel to strictly maintain and preserve the status quo and not permit any change on the Mount. King Abdullah of Jordan, whose Kingdom is accorded under the 1994 peace agreement an official status at the Holy Places in Jerusalem, warned that "Any further provocation or confrontation of police with Muslim worshipers at Al-Aqsa might damage relations between the two countries". For his part, King Salman of Saudi Arabia conducted a whole series of urgent and highly publicized phone calls with world leaders – starting with Putin in Moscow, through European Prime Ministers and Presidents and culminating with Obama - asking for their intervention to prevent a conflagration in Jerusalem. Just a few days before, Netanyahu confidential adviser Dore Gold, recently appointed Director of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, boasted of the good relations which developed in recent years between Israel and Saudi Arabia...

And this morning, the UN Security Council unanimously and firmly called upon Israel to maintain the status quo at Haram A-Sharif – calling it by this and no other name. In vain did the Israeli Ambassador Ron Prosor complain of "a one-sided text which did not mention Palestinian stone-throwing".

Source: http://adam-keller2.blogspot.co.il/2015/09/conflagration-on-island-of-stability.html

[TubbersUK]

5. Thanks, useful context :)

[oberliner]

8. Adam Keller nonsense from top to bottom

Jews and Muslims should both be allowed to pray there.

That this is even controversial is ridiculous.

[Israeli]

78. So spoke the captain ...

"No reason
To worry!
We are
An island
Of stability!”


So said
The Captain
Of the Titanic
To his passengers
In a new year's greeting.

Published in Haaretz - September 18, 2015

Source: http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/weekly_ad/1442532755/

[Little Tich]

4. Netanyahu did the right thing.

Too bad it he only did it after caving in to the pressure from more than a few world leaders.

[oberliner]

6. "Israeli police on Thursday barred all non-Muslims from entering ..."

Fascinating that you find this to be the right thing.

[geek tragedy]

13. So you favor a war with Jordan? nt

[oberliner]

18. Of course not

Jordan should be ashamed of themselves for threatening a war over Jews standing around and praying.

[geek tragedy]

21. It would not end with "Jews standing around and praying."

Look at the de facto annexation that has occurred in the West Bank. The Israelis don't believe in sharing.

[oberliner]

33. But that is enough of a "desecration" to threaten war

In fact, the de facto annexation that has occurred in the West Bank seems to animate folks less than Jews standing around praying in the Temple Mount. It almost seems like all the horrors of the checkpoints and other indignities Palestinians suffer in the West Bank are less offensive than allowing Jews to pray in the location. Doesn't that seem out of whack?

[geek tragedy]

34. it's a red line. the lesson that has been learned is that if you give the Israelis an inch, they'll

take everything that belongs to you.

the effect of the occupation/colonization is cumulative, so the "straw that broke the camel's back" effect is in play.

put enough kindling in place, and even a small spark can lead to a big fire.

Israel is playing with fire, and it's knee-deep in kindling.

[Little Tich]

15. I think this is actually a human rights issue, and that those issues shouldn't be resolved on

an ad hoc basis.

The rights of persons and groups of persons are almost always written down as general principles in the form of declarations, constitutions, principles and such. This generality makes them versatile for all who are affected by them and it also prevents abuse in favor of one group to the detriment of another.

This Temple Mount nonsense is only about Jewish rights, which is the opposite of human rights, as it's about rights for only one group vs general rights for all. For me, this is just another version of the same right-wing ploy I've seen being used in other countries. If all religions in Jerusalem were treated equally under the same principles and none were favoured over another, the question about Jews praying on the Temple Mount would be about human rights and I would support it. Unfortunately, the ongoing Judaization of Jerusalem prevents me from supporting Jewish rights to pray on the Temple Mount.

Anyway, this measure is only temporary and had to be put in place due to the recklessness of Israeli politicians.

[oberliner]

19. "the ongoing Judaization of Jerusalem..."

Do you understand how offensive that characterization is?

There is no place in the world that is more central to Judaism than Jerusalem.

As much as Mecca and Medina are central to Islam.

Medina was once home to many Jews, incidentally - until they were "ethnically cleansed" to use today's parlance and now Jews are not even allowed to set foot in these cities.

[Little Tich]

35. If you find my dislike of racism offensive, then so be it.

It's racist to promote the interests of one ethnic group at the expense of another. The Judaization of Jerusalem is exactly that and therefore racist.

And Israel not being worse than Saudi Arabia is a really weak argument.

[shira]

89. How does one dislike racism while being against Jewish ties to Jerusalem?

Do you not know how central Jerusalem is to Jews worldwide?

Imagine indigenous Muslims trying to establish more of a connection to their most cherished towns & cities and then being accused of Islamification by Rightwingers.

I hope you realize how offensive that would be.

[Little Tich]

92. Any establishment and enhancement of those ethnic / religious ties should be made under the umbrella

of equal rights, the way it's done in democratic countries. Simply favouring one religion / ethnicity on the expense of others is racism, and this is what the Judaization of Jerusalem is all about.

We are very far apart when it comes to how we define equal rights.

[shira]

93. All people (citizens especially) have rights to live anywhere within Israel...

...and visit any public place they wish.

OTOH, Jews are being denied access to the Temple Mount & rights to live in E.Jerusalem.

Am I to understand that YOUR version of equal rights means no Jews on the Mount and no Jews in E.Jerusalem?

[Little Tich]

98. You know that you're factually wrong. Arabs of East Jerusalem can't live anywhere else in Israel,

they are confined to the same neighbourhoods with the same boundaries they had since 1967, and almost no new buildings are allowed. Israeli citizens who are not Jewish can't live on lands that are considered State lands or JNF lands, where most Jewish citizens live. A non-Jewish Israeli has severe restriction on where he will be allowed to live, and a Jewish citizen has no such restrictions.

For me, equal rights would mean no such restrictions for anyone, and it would mean building for Israeli Arabs (and Arabs of East Jerusalem) on JNF and State lands in the same way they build for Jewish citizens, all according to their needs.

For religion, I want a separation of religion and state like they do it in the US or elsewhere. I think that would solve most problems.

[shira]

100. I take it you don't believe Jews have any rights on the Temple Mount....

...or to live in E.Jerusalem. You didn't answer. In fact, you call that "Judaization" of Jerusalem, which you oppose.

And you're preaching equal rights to me?

Worse, you're dead wrong about Arabs of E.Jerusalem. Israel annexed all of Jerusalem, meaning they can live anywhere they want in Israel.

Israeli citizens who are not Jewish can't live on lands that are considered State lands or JNF lands, where most Jewish citizens live.

That's wrong too. You're 2 for 2 now.

A non-Jewish Israeli has severe restriction on where he will be allowed to live, and a Jewish citizen has no such restrictions.

Examples?

[Little Tich]

109. Some links to descriptions of Israel's discriminatory land policies:

IV. Discrimination in Land Allocation and Access
Source: Human Rights Watch (From 2008 report:"Off the Map: Land and Housing Rights Violations in Israel’s Unrecognized Bedouin Villages", https://www.hrw.org/reports/2008/iopt0308/index.htm)

Land Ownership and Distribution in Israel

Unlike most industrialized countries, which have widespread private land ownership and a free real estate market, in Israel the state controls 93 percent of the land. This land is owned either directly by the state or by quasi-governmental bodies that the state has authorized to develop the land, such as the Development Authority (DA) and the Jewish National Fund (JNF). A governmental body, the Israel Land Administration (ILA), administers all of this land. This gives the government an exceptionally decisive role in land allocation, land-use planning, and development.

According to Israel’s Basic Law, state land cannot be sold. The ILA usually leases land to individuals or institutions for periods of 49 or 98 years. The JNF has a specific mandate to develop land for and lease land only to Jews. Thus the 13 percent of land in Israel owned by the JNF is by definition off-limits to Palestinian Arab citizens, and when the ILA tenders leases for land owned by the JNF, it does so only to Jews—either Israeli citizens or Jews from the Diaspora. This arrangement makes the state directly complicit in overt discrimination against Arab citizens in land allocation and use, and Israeli NGOs are currently challenging this practice in Israel’s Supreme Court. The ILA’s Governing Council is comprised of 22 members—12 representing government ministries and 10 representing the JNF, giving the JNF a hugely influential role in Israeli land policies generally and the overall allocation of state lands.

Notwithstanding the prohibition on sale of state land, the law allows the state to transfer directly owned state land to the JNF. The JNF acquired approximately 78 percent of its land holdings from the state between 1949 and 1953, much of it the land of Palestinian refugees from the 1948 war that the state confiscated as “absentee property.”

While by law Arab citizens can lease land owned directly by the state and not transferred to the JNF, in practice numerous obstacles limit Arab citizens’ access to land, as described below. According to Adalah, a human rights organization representing the Arab minority in Israel, Arab citizens are blocked from leasing about 80 percent of the land controlled by the state.

Bedouins’ lack of access to land occurs in a wider context affecting Israel’s Palestinian Arab population generally. Not only has the state confiscated pre-1948 Palestinian Arab lands, it has not allowed Arab citizens to establish new towns; nor has it approved adequate expansion of existing ones. Since 1948 the state has authorized the creation of about 1,000 Jewish communities, but not a single Arab community except for the seven government-planned townships and the nine new or newly recognized villages, which concentrate the Bedouin in limited areas in the Negev, and some similar towns in the Galilee. The state rarely grants expansion requests to Arab local authorities.67 While Arab citizens of Israel comprise roughly 20 percent of the country’s population, just 2.5 percent of the land of the state is under the jurisdiction of Arab local governments. In the northern Negev region, Bedouin municipalities have jurisdiction over 1.9 percent of the land, while Bedouin citizens comprise 25.2 percent of the population in that area.

Read more: https://www.hrw.org/reports/2008/iopt0308/4.htm


Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians
Source: Mondoweiss, September 18, 2014

Yesterday, Israel’s Supreme Court dismissed a petition by Adalah: The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel effectually facilitating the Judaization of more Palestinian owned land inside Israel. According to Adalah, the court’s decision holding up Israel’s Admissions Committees Law, “entrenches racial segregation; 434 small communities in Israel, or 43% of all residential areas, will be allowed to close their doors to Palestinian Arab citizens of the state.” Much of the land in question was originally confiscated from Palestinian refugees, and the court’s decision will result in the continued concentration and containment of the Palestinian population in Israel.

In March 2011, the Knesset passed two racist laws, the “Nakba Law” and the “Admissions Committees Law”, the latter granting legal legitimacy to “admission committees” in small towns, many agricultural, with fewer than 400 families in the Naqab and the Galilee to “have the full discretion to accept or reject individuals who wish to live in these towns.” The committees consisting of town residents include a member of the Jewish Agency, the World Zionist Organization, or other “quasi” government representative are able, in practice, to “filter out Arab Palestinian applicants and others from marginalized groups,“

Read more: http://mondoweiss.net/2014/09/allowing-discrimination-palestinians


On the subject of Arabs of East Jerusalem:
Source: Wikipedia article: Arab citizens of Israel

Property ownership and housing
(snip)

The Israel Land Administration, which administers 93% of the land in Israel (including the land owned by the Jewish National Fund), refuses to lease land to non-Jewish foreign nationals, who include Palestinian residents of Jerusalem who have identity cards but are not citizens of Israel. When ILA land is "bought" in Israel it is actually leased to the "owner" for a period of 49 years. According to article 19 of the ILA lease, foreign nationals are excluded from leasing ILA land, and in practice foreigners may just show that they qualify as Jewish under the Law of Return.

(end snip)

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel#Property_ownership_and_housing

Note: My bolding

BTW, what's the point of highlighting Jewish religious access and prayer at the mount, when allowing it would only be furthering racism under current circumstances? If there were equal religious rights, then Jewish access to the Temple Mount would be of course allowed. It's a common right-wing racist ploy to pretend to demand "equality" for certain ethnic groups in very limited circumstances but avoiding the greater issue of equality in general. Please don't fall for this ploy.

[oberliner]

110. You have no idea what you are talking about

What you've written here is just absolutely preposterous and false.

For instance, you wrote: "Israeli citizens who are not Jewish can't live on lands that are considered State lands"

This is, of course, not true.

One wonders where you are accumulating this false information from.

[Little Tich]

112. Do you have any links that would help dispel my ignorance on this issue? n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

67. "Medina was once home to many Jews, incidentally - until they were "ethnically cleansed..."

I'm not sure what you are arguing for here. "An eye for an eye? The Saudis did it to Jews so Israelis get to do it to Muslims?"

[shira]

88. Jews aren't ethnically cleansing Muslims.

Tell me, do you believe Jews have a right to visit the Temple Mount....or live in East Jerusalem?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

90. When you decide to stop conflating Jew with Israeli

then perhaps you willbe able to have a cogentargument.

And your first statement in a bold-face lie.

Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory by a more powerful ethnic group, with the intent of making it ethnically homogeneous.[1] The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), intimidation, as well as mass murder.

Usrael has done that to the Palestinian population many times.

[shira]

91. Not conflating at all. Name 3 non-Jewish Israelis you take issue with...

....for their support of "Apartheid" and all that other nonsense you accuse the Jewish state of doing.

You can't do it, can you?

===================================

And I was right the first time. Israel has never ethnically cleansed Muslims.

Now here's where the hypocrisy comes in...

I asked you about the rights Jews have to the Temple Mount or to live in E.Jerusalem. Do you support the ethnic cleansing of Jews from the Temple Mount and E. Jerusalem?

I know, you can't answer that one so I'll make it easy for you...

Kindly state very clearly you support the rights of Jews to be at the Temple Mount & to live in E.Jerusalem.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

99. I didn't order a word salad from you, nor do I expect one to be delivered or I should pay for one.

Again, you conflate Jew with Israeli.

You should stop.

And as for hypocrisy....

[shira]

101. If I'm conflating, then name 3 prominent non-Jewish Israelis you loathe...

...for their pro-Apartheid, anti-Palestinian, racist support of colonialism.

Waiting...

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

103. I'm not going to play your goal post moving game tonight, shira.

Time and time again you give yourself away with such nonsense.

Keep on waiting.


There is no IF.

[shira]

105. You prove my point. You criticize only "Israelis" and yet...

....you cannot name any non-Jews on your rogue's list of "bad Zionist Israelis".

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

107. Try re-reading post 103 and read it this time.

You fool nobody with your games, shira.

[shira]

108. Yawn. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

111. Yes, you have nothing to say, really.

[DonCoquixote]

43. ok, how would you prevent

the reverse, which would occur.

for example, would you say:
"This Waqf (muslim name for the Temple Mount) nonsense is only about Muslim rights, which is the opposite of human rights, as it's about rights for only one group vs general rights for all."

I dislike Tel Aviv, but I am also smart enough to relaize that whoever gets the power will try to DOMINATE and OPPRESS the opther, because that principle is, sadly, a core, a feature, not a bug, of the Abrahamic religions, Christianity among them.

In other words, if you really want equal treatment, you will need to be able to tell the PLO and Hamas top step off as much as Tel Aviv.

[Little Tich]

45. It's hypothethical, but possible that the tables could be turned in some way.

The oppressor will always be wrong anyway, whoever he is. I think that a solution would have to be based on the principle of equal civil rights for all, regardless of ethnicity or religion. In such a situation everyone would have to back off and refrain from non-democratic measures.

This might seem to be a bit naive, but I can't really see another way out of this situation in the long term. Measures that improve the living conditions and further the civil rights for the non-Jewish minorities in Jerusalem will make things better. Doing the opposite will only make things worse.

[DonCoquixote]

46. the thing is

a) in most arab nations the table are turned.

B) when you tell either side of Jersualem that they have to back off and make a secular society, both will take to their violins and say "you people just wanna impose yer culture on us."

I do think that the only way peace will come to that region is the onyl way it has ever come to it, when someone from OUTSIDE the region, who has NO interest in the theology of the region, imposes order. Only the UN can do that, and even then, it will take non religious to do it, perhaps China.

[Little Tich]

70. I would agree with that.

It's possible that the next US president will be an honest broker (eg Bernie Sanders) and be able to bring peace to the I/P conflict.

[leftynyc]

49. Did you really type

Judaization of Jerusalem? Go ahead and try and tell us how fair and balanced you are? Vomit.

[Little Tich]

68. I really can't help you if the mere thought of equal rights puts bile in your throat.

My opinion is that this nonsense is only brought about because of racism and nothing else, and all the lame attempts to justify this racist demand have utterly failed to convince me. Is Zionism a racist ideology by definition, or does it only look that way because its most vocal proponents are racists?

[leftynyc]

80. Uh - no

Bigots, who are so entirely comfortable with their bigotry, use words they don't even realize - or probably more true, don't care - how hurtful they are and know zero about the history of such words (or don't care about the history). I'm not talking about anything but that. But go ahead and convince away - tell me how you're such a fair arbiter that you use the same words - without qualification and with excuse after excuse - as repulsive bigots with no problem whatsoever. I'm going to go throw up now and be comforted by the fact you've shown your true colors.

[grossproffit]

82. Indeed. I saw through this one since I first came here.

You used to have to read between the lines but not so much any longer. Their slips have been showing for some time.

[leftynyc]

86. I try and give everyone

the benefit of the doubt. But like you said, they can't keep it up forever, the mask will eventually slip. Wishing you a wonderful weekend.

[grossproffit]

87. You too! Thank you.

[6chars]

44. Related to this? Abbas: We welcome every drop of blood spilled in Jerusalem

http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Issues/Pages/PA-Chairman-Abbas-incites-to-violence-in-Jerusalem.aspx

[leftynyc]

50. And to the surprise

of absolutely nobody with a brain, your post is being ignored. Can't say I'm surprised abbas is once again showing himself to be an asshole.

[geek tragedy]

53. Lol, people are ignoring a press release from the ultra-rightwing Israeli

foreign ministry, run by Israel's version of Michelle Bachmann, Tzipi Hotovely.

I mean, if people are going to ignore rightwing government propaganda from religious extremists, what will they ignore next, the latest issue of the Weekly Standard or Commentary or Sarah Palin?

[oberliner]

59. Here is a video of the actual remarks made by Abbas

Please do correct any errors in the translation provided on the screen.

[geek tragedy]

60. he's honoring those killed by the Israelis as martyrs. He's not celebrating the

deaths of Israelis.

This is pure blood, clean blood, blood on its way to Allah. With the help of Allah, every shaheed (martyr) will be in heaven, and every wounded will get his reward

Every Muslim who doesn't kiss Israel's ass is a "radical Islamist" according to Israel's rightwing extremist government.

[MFM008]

79. Sorry

Israel has ALL the power in this situation, they are in control of this camp, any complaints should be directed to them.

[oberliner]

81. Not sure what you mean by "camp"

Was that a typo? If not, what do you mean by that?

[Israeli]

83. He probably means this " camp " oberliner...........

?t=thumbnail_570

Source : http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/09/israel-temple-mount-ultra-orthodox-zionist-judaism-division.html

Now, however, with the Temple Mount right in the eye of a brewing storm, the ultra-Orthodox are also starting to raise security and diplomatic considerations in the struggle to prevent other Jews from visiting the site. So, for instance, the chairman of the Knesset’s Finance Committee, ultra-Orthodox Knesset member Moshe Gafni, launched a sharp attack against extreme-right Orthodox-Zionist Housing Minister Uri Ariel on Sept. 17 for going up to the Temple Mount on the eve of the Rosh Hashanah (Jewish New Year) holiday. Gafni accused Ariel of acting in an irresponsible manner, which could lead to an escalation of violence in the region. “I protest his [Ariel's] going up to the Temple Mount. … From my perspective, it makes no sense diplomatically,” Gafni said. “I don’t see him actually working as agriculture minister. He should take care of the Land of Israel as minister of agriculture and not by going to visit the Temple Mount.”

The editorial called Jews who insist on visiting the site “wild weeds,” and said, “They make it a point to throw a match into an oil well that could bury the Middle East in smoking ashes.” Surprisingly, the newspaper’s editorial — which represents the position of Rabbi Aharon Leib Shteinman, the ultra-Orthodox community’s most prominent religious authority — reflects claims of the Israeli left, which argues that going up to the site is an act of political provocation. .......

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/09/israel-temple-mount-ultra-orthodox-zionist-judaism-division.html#ixzz3mkULxwcQ

[oberliner]

84. That makes sense

Thanks for clarifying.

[Israeli]

85. You are very welcome ....nt . ....:)