Kerry at Saban Forum: Current Trends Are Leading to a One-state Reality

[Little Tich]

Last edited Sun Dec 6, 2015, 01:15 AM - Edit history (1)

Source: Haaretz

'If current situation continues, it's not clear how long Palestinian Authority can survive,' secretary of state says at Washington D.C. event.

WASHINGTON - In a speech harshly critical of Israel, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry warned on Friday that current trends in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are leading to a one-state reality.

Addressing the Saban Forum in Washington, D.C., Kerry also warned of the Palestinian Authority's collapse and called on Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to prove that his support for the two-state solution isn't just a slogan but a part of Israeli policy.

The secretary of state made the remarks a week after visiting Jerusalem and Ramallah, a trip during which he failed to secure willingness on the part of Netanyahu and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to take confidence-building measures. Kerry admitted to feeling frustration vis-à-vis the process in a brief interview with former U.S. special envoy for Middle East peace Martin Indyk, who now serves as vice president of the Brookings Institute, which organizes the Saban Forum.

Kerry made clear in his speech that the U.S. remains committed to the two-state solution, but asserted that the two sides are the ones who must take decisions that affect their future. 

Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.690205

[oberliner]

1. He doesn't say that

This article has something in quotation marks that he does not actually say at any point in the speech.

He does not say ""current trends are leading for a one-state reality" at any point in the speech.

You can watch it in its entirety and see for yourself (on Youtube and elsewhere).

[Little Tich]

2. Are you sure?

I haven't watched the whole speech, but I know from before that you can be a bit evasive when it comes to facts. I'm not simply going to take your word for it. Perhaps there are transcripts?

Anyways, do you think Kerry's speech is of any significance whatsoever?

[azurnoir]

3. Hillary Clinton will be addressing the forum Sunday @ 12:15 with an intro from Haim Saban himself

that should be interesting indeed

http://www.brookings.edu/events/2015/12/04-saban-forum-2015-israel-us-yesterday-today-tomorrow

[King_David]

4. Just regular Democratic Party policy...

?v=1441045675

[King_David]

5. Your attitude toward the Jewish state

Is 180 degrees opposite from the atitde of our Jewish candidate toward the Jewish state he lived in before...

If you want an antiZionist, he ain't our Jewish candidate...





?v=1441045675

[azurnoir]

6. I see you put the Bernie Sanders cut and paste back up will you now finally make it your sig line?

and Bernie Sanders would not say he whether or not he is a Zionist


Ezra Klein
Do you view yourself as a Zionist?

Bernie Sanders
A Zionist? What does that mean? Want to define what the word is? Do I think Israel has the right to exist, yeah, I do. Do I believe that the United States should be playing an even-handed role in terms of its dealings with the Palestinian community in Israel? Absolutely I do.

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/28/9014491/bernie-sanders-vox-conversation

[King_David]

7. The Jewish Candidate who lived in the Jewish state

Has absolutely ZERO in common with your view of Israel...

[azurnoir]

8. whatever

[oberliner]

16. Bernie has a pretty big tent

I would imagine both of you would feel comfortable in his campaign. I think he has both Zionists and anti-Zionists working in support of his efforts.

[King_David]

18. I don't think some of the OTT views seen by posts on "apartheid "

Or the Mondoweiss message etc would see the light of day though.

[oberliner]

36. Maybe not

But I would imagine that there are a fair number of Bernie supporters who do share those sentiments.

[King_David]

19. I could never support an AntiZionist candidate ever....

The converse can not possibly be true though.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

38. Define anti-zionist, dave.

American zionism? European Zionism? Meir Kahane zionism? Barauch Goldstein Zionism? Right-wing apartheid zionism?

Do you support all above?

[shira]

42. Sure. A person who denies Jews a right accorded to everyone else, especially Palestinians. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

44. So Israelis are anti-zionist against Palestinians then.

Thanks. Good to know.

[shira]

45. No, anti-zionists are against Jewish self-determination & sovereignty.....

The only ethnic group of people they oppose on those grounds.

Meanwhile, they advocate for Palestinian self-determination and sovereignty while denying the same to Jews.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

46. Your brand of fertilizer is limitless.

[Israeli]

11. He was a volunteer on a kibbutz KD ....

...for how long ??

[King_David]

23. I don't know how long are volunteers usually on a kibbutz for?

One year?

[Israeli]

33. Nope ......usually a month......

three maximum .

But I was responding to this and I quote you :

" The Jewish Candidate who lived in the Jewish state "

He did not "live" here KD .......he was here for several months in 1964, after his graduation from the University of Chicago.

Read more: http://forward.com/news/320344/my-quixotic-hunt-for-bernie-sanders-kibbutz/#ixzz3tcMkN2hR

Which Kibbutz nobody seems to know ....as you are so close to him maybe you could ask him which one it was ...????????????

[King_David]

20. Bernie Sanders as a Jewish candidate can not possibly call himself a Zionist

He's already had the most disgusting antisemitic canards leveled against him with people claiming he had dual loyalties.


Guess you don't understand what a Jewish candidate would have to go through that other non Jewish candidates would not?

[azurnoir]

21. so you're saying Bernie Sanders reply was because he's afraid due to antisemitism

does that a[[ly to all Jewish politician or just Sanders?

Thwe Rehm interview was so strongly condemned I find that hard to believe


also why is that you seem to feel it necessary to point out Sanders religious/ethnic background in nearly every comment you mention him?

Is that his biggest selling point for you? Most people concentrate on his policies and positions

[King_David]

22. This is IP group

[azurnoir]

24. Then wouldn't your concerns for Bernie Sanders be better in the Jewish group?

[King_David]

25. Nope ...Zionism ,Jews , Israel are all intertwined

as is Palestine and Islam and Hamas.

It's not really a coincidence that half of us , mainly on one side of the debate are Jewish.

You never knew this ?

[azurnoir]

26. your claims about Sanders answer who is American and his American interviewer

for an American media outlet could well be also posted in the Jewish group

but as a supporter of Sanders you surely post in the Sanders group or GDP?

[King_David]

27. Nope

I don't really understand what you're getting at .


As I said understanding the IP is a complex...most of us posting here grew up with it in our families.

It's not an easy topic.

[azurnoir]

28. so the antisemitism of Diane Rehm towards Bernie Sanders has no place in the Jewish group?

thanks for that info

[King_David]

29. No problem IP is not an easy topic to grasp.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12231811

[azurnoir]

30. except that is was [posted in the Jewisj where you said it didn't belong

Nope

I don't really understand what you're getting at .


As I said understanding the IP is a complex...most of us posting here grew up with it in our families.

It's not an easy topic.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=121145

[King_David]

31. Still don't understand what you're getting at.

[azurnoir]

32. that's okay

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

40. ...

Nobody buys it, dave.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

39. "Nope ...Zionism ,Jews , Israel are all intertwined "

What a load of guff. How much are you selling this for? It's overpriced and stale.

[Little Tich]

12. I'm more of a Bernie supporter, but I would like to see if HRC actually has something

substantial to add to the debate.

[oberliner]

13. Positive

I watched the whole thing. You can too. If you find that I am mistaken, you can direct me to where he says it. Search for the video on YouTube and watch. It's an hour and twenty minutes.

I resent your comment about my "being evasive with facts" and I would again point out that you don't have to take my word for it. Just don't be lazy - and ask for a transcript - when you can actually watch the whole speech yourself. It's in English and readily available.

Here's what he says that is closest:

"Current trends including violence and settlement activity, demolitions, are imperiling the viability of a two-state solution. And that trend has to be reversed in order to prevent this untenable one-state reality from taking hold."

It's at around the 43:30 mark.

If you are too lazy (or disinterested) to watch the speech yourself, then I really don't think it's fair for you to make these comments.

I think his speech is right on the money. The thrust of it is that the two-state solution is the only solution and that Israelis and Palestinians ought to be doing more to make that solution a reality.

I couldn't agree more.

[Israeli]

10. Then he should have oberliner.......

....because they are .

Care to read this :

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/204392#.VmPpW9IrJkg

New Foreign Ministry document: 'Settlements' are legal

Foreign Ministry to distribute new legal opinion which clearly states that communities in Judea and Samaria are perfectly legal.

Annexation here we come .

[oberliner]

14. Israel National News is a crazy RW settler website (as you must know)

They are not a reliable source - especially in terms of their interpretation of such things.

Regardless, I agree with Kerry that the two-state solution is the only solution and that both sides ought to be doing everything they can to make that happen (and currently, neither is).

[Israeli]

15. I know oberliner....

So who would you take as a " reliable source " ???

The Times maybe ...or Channel 2 ???

Here you go .....

http://www.timesofisrael.com/west-bank-settlements-are-legal-foreign-ministry-asserts/

[oberliner]

17. Times of Israel is pretty RW too

Anyway, I am not disputing the gist of what is happening with respect to the settlements and the views of the RW cabinet members.

We should all be working against their agenda in the same way that we work against the agenda of the Republicans in the US.

[Israeli]

34. Yes they are oberliner......

....and Channel 2 ??????

Any source you would be happy with ?

" We should all be working against their agenda in the same way that we work against the agenda of the Republicans in the US. "

Bit late dont you think ?

What would you propose ....The Geneva Initiative ...with that damned Leftist Yossi Beilin ??

[oberliner]

35. I didn't say I wasn't happy with the source

I am happy with any source that isn't Mondoweiss.

I don't think it's too late - I think The Geneva Initiative is exactly what we should be supporting and promoting.

What do you think?

[Israeli]

37. What do I think ......

.......

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.647949

Anything but a unity government, for God’s and the future’s sake. Let a right-wing nationalist government be formed with the ultra-Orthodox hanging onto its coattails. Let it sally forth and show us what it can do. From now on, it will have nothing to cover its nakedness and no alibi for its incompetence.

As for me, what remains to be done? Give my grandchildren a big hug. They’re still too small to tell them what I think.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

41. Well ober, he actually said more...

1:05
The status quo is simply not sustainable, and the fact is that current trends including violence, settlement activity, demolitions... are imperiling the viability of a two-state solution.

And that trend has to be reversed in order to prevent this untenable one-state reality from taking hold.

[oberliner]

43. Yes exactly

And I very much agree with his strong support for the two-state solution and how critical it is for everyone to start moving in that direction.