Ya’alon: Bereavement not equal for Israelis and our enemies

[Little Tich]

Source: Times of Israel

Weighing in on public debate over grief, defense minister says the Jewish state strives for life while the ‘opposing society wishes for death’

fense Minister Moshe Ya’alon drew a distinction Tuesday between the grief experienced by Israelis, who he said were a life- and peace-seeking people, and by enemies who “yearn” for death and self-destruction. His comments came amid a raging public debate over bereavement and as a five-month-old round of violence that has left some 200 people dead on both sides of the conflict refuses to die down.

“Our grief is that of a society that wishes to live, a society that educates our boys to life, to be humans, to behave as human beings, to strive for peace. This is our society,” Ya’alon told a conference with members of Yad Labanim, an organization of bereaved Israeli families. “And opposing us is a society that yearns for death, as we can see around us in the happiness of a boy in becoming a martyr — a society that does not respect anything.

“Our society chooses life and does not seek out wars, but strives for peace and sees war as [a] necessary [evil],” he continued. “On the other side of us is an element that desires death and causes devastation, not only against us but against itself.”

The defense minister’s comments echoed remarks by Israel Police Commissioner Roni Alsheich on Monday. He seemed to be take aim at radio presenter Razi Barkai, who sparked outrage earlier this month when he compared the grief of families of Palestinian attackers and their Israeli victims.

Read more: http://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon-israeli-and-palestinian-bereavement-not-equal/

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

1. What a bunch of bunk. Humans are humans.

This Israeli mom wailing over her son's death is exactly the same as the Palestinian mom wailing over her son's death.

Just more dehumanizing crap.

'They're not like us, they're 'death seekers!' We're pro-life!'

BS

[DetlefK]

2. Well, the israeli settlers in the Westbank also have a culture of death.

They consider this their God-given land and they are willing to face anything and die for this land. So much for "culture of life" and "seeking peace".

[6chars]

3. He is reporting what the other side's leaders say

Lots of links. Of course, some will say any translation from Arabic cannot be trusted if you do not speak Arabic, and so there is no evidence of anything.

But this is pretty standard fare from Islamist groups. Like ISIS, Hamas, Hizbollah. The idea is that if you die killing or attempting to kill infidels, you go to heaven and it's just a great thing. And elements of the political and religious leadership brainwashes a lot of people into believing it.

While no doubt everyone grieves when a close one dies in a car crash or something like that, it seems that on the other side, when someone tries to stab an innocent person to death, or in the course of other terrorist activity, and is killed in the process, it is cause for celebration not grief. If this wasn't the case, parents would dissuade their children from doing that.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/FC23Aa01.html
http://en.europenews.dk/Video-Hamas-We-love-death-for-Allah--87476.html
http://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/we-love-death
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/journey-into-hamas-mind-we-love-death/
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2012-11-20/seven-truths-about-israel-hamas-and-violence
http://worldmediamonitoring.com/hamas-tv-muslim-mother-must-nurse-children-hatred/
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=479
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/185381

[rjsquirrel]

4. Ah yes the old "we are more human than them"

propaganda line.

[6chars]

6. that is not what he is saying

Hamas, Hizbollah, ISIS, Al Queda, all their leaders are literally saying how they love death. Then they act on it with suicide bombings.

OK, I am willing to take the heat: to the extent they commit suicide bombings and love causing death of others and themselves, they are less human.

It is a nice trick though, when Israeli leaders respond to these statements by Hamas etc. to take it as evidence that the Israelis are morally bankrupt. Have fun with that.

[Little Tich]

7. Do you think there is a difference between the grief of Palestinian and Jewish mothers?

From the OP:

“There is a difference between our grief and their grief,” Alsheich said at an event for bereaved families in Eilat.

“It’s impossible not to tell the difference between the grief we see in your faces and the grief we’ve seen expressed by some of our neighbors in recent years,” he said.

[6chars]

8. Sometimes there is.

I have read several times when Palestinian mothers say the happiest day of their life was the day their son died trying to kill innocent people, that is absolutely different. Whenever terrorists get killed, along with killing Jews, the people in the streets hand out fucking candy. It's sick.

Hamas and Hizbollah leaders taunt Israel saying that they have the advantage because Israel loves life while they love death. They act on this in the way they conduct operations. This indeed makes it very difficult for Israel to find a proper way to defend. They basically invented suicide bombing, they hold numerous patents on the use of human shields.

So yes, there really is an issue with people who are so riled up with hatred that they feel joy when others would feel grief. This basically does not happen among Jews.

Is this the way all Palestinians feel whenever someone dies? Of course not. With most deaths, they feel grief the same way. But Palestinians are not the enemies of Israel. Hamas, Hizbollah, terrorists from various subgroups of Fatah, Islamic Jihad, yes, they are self-proclaimed enemies of Israel. And in the context of their fighting with Israel, they really do not feel grief the way normal people do. This is what Yalon is talking about, and it is a huge problem. How do you defend against people who love death, especially death that comes during attempts to murder innocents, who think it is simply a quick ticket to heaven?

If you think he is saying this about all Palestinians and all deaths that occur among Palestinians, that is because you want to interpret it that way as a statement about the non-humanity of Israelis. No, that is not what is going on. The terrorist movements among the Palestinians truly have some vile mindsets. Calling them out on that is not racism, as you seem to be implying.

Friends of the Palestinians would do them more good by discouraging the culture that celebrates terrorism.

[Little Tich]

9. I personally think that the grief is identical.

Parents never expect to outlive their children. Sometimes there's also a sense of pride on both sides, but I think it's a bit hollow. I have a problem with Ya’alon - he's trying to deny Palestinian families the right to grieve the loss of their loved ones, and I think that he's a POS for it.

[6chars]

10. You have an opinion based on introspection, but it is divorced from evidence

When people are saying "We do not grieve our children's deaths. We rejoice in them because they died trying to kill you." That is different than saying "We are in great sorrow as a result of our children's deaths, although we honor them for giving their lives for their people."

When people tell you "We are not grieving, we are rejoicing because we love death and that is why we will defeat you because you love life" - you can choose to believe that they don't mean what they say. But hell, they act on this, so by failing to take them at their word, you will be wrong about how they will respond.

Let me put it in a way you might appreciate. If you assume that the families of terrorists grieve greatly, then shooting all stabbers would be a strong incentive for stabbers to not stab (and thereby get shot and cause their families grief) and a strong incentive for families to discourage stabbers. If the families of stabbers rejoice in their achieving a pathway to paradise, then shooting stabbers will only encourage them, and a policy of greater restraint such as arresting them and making them watch Oprah reruns would be more effective. In order to develop policies for the conflict, it is important to have a realistic understanding of the other side.

It is also important to not overgeneralize and say Palestinians are essentially masochists. That is also quite mistaken and would lead to wrong policies. But that is not at all the Israeli view - even if certain haters of Israel wish to believe it is - so nothing to worry about.

[TubbersUK]

5. Ah, that rotten old chestnut

we're human, they're something lesser