Connection to the Land Cannot Not Be Broken

[polly7]

By Joshua Brollier

Source: Voices for Creative Nonviolence

Wednesday, December 19, 2012

Gaza City-Yesterday in al-Faraheen, Gaza, Israeli Occupation Forces shot and wounded an unarmed 22 year old farmer, Mohammed Qdeih, from behind. Mohamed and nine others went out to their fields in the early afternoon, walking approximately 250 meters from the Israeli border. Within minutes, two heavily armed Israeli military jeeps rushed to the security fence. They issued a warning for the farmers and residents to leave the area and shortly thereafter the Palestinians, intimidated by the heavy military presence, began to head back to the village of Abasan. The soldiers were not satisfied and opened fire, piercing Mohamed’s right arm from the backside. Israeli forces continued to shoot rounds of live ammunition while Mohamed and the others frantically evacuated and waited for an ambulance. Another young Palestinian, 19, was shot yesterday near the border in Jabaliya.

Under the siege, Israeli “closed military zones” have confiscated up to 35 per cent of Gaza’s arable land, which was previously used for fruit and olive orchards, wheat and various vegetables. With nearly half of Gaza’s population designated as “food insecure” by UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) and the farming industry having been crippled from the inability to export products under the Israeli blockade, this land is essential for the livelihoods of thousands of farmers and residents of Gaza. Even so and given that four Palestinians have been killed and over 50 injured since the November 21st, 2012 ceasefire agreement, one might ask why anyone would risk their life and venture near the border at all.

Palestinians have had varying experiences near the fence. There have been some successes with farming and some incidents resulting in death and serious injuries. The agreement between Israel and Hamas clearly stated that Israeli forces would “refrain from targeting residents in the border areas” and to “stop all hostilities in the Gaza Strip land, sea and air including incursions and targeting of individuals.” Hamas and other factions have held up their end of the bargain with not a single rocket being fired from Gaza.

As a participant in an international solidarity team, I sat down this with Mohammed Qdeih and family members this afternoon to get their perspective on the breach of the ceasefire and why they would risk their lives in pursuit of reclaiming their land. “The ceasefire is without any sense,” said Mohammed. “They attempted to kill me.” Mohammed is single but works the land to help provide for his 15 extended family members who reside together in Abasan al-Kabir. The family has approximately ten dunams of land which fall in the vaguely defined “buffer zone.” He is one of only five who are able to work in the fields and now the family will be without his help for a month at best.

More: http://www.zcommunications.org/connection-to-the-land-cannot-not-be-broken-by-joshua-brollier

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

1. But the Palestinians are bad and don't deserve a homeland.

How can Israel be secure until there are enough safeguards in place to ensure that Palestinians are never seen or heard from again?

[aranthus]

3. Straw man. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

5. No. Just sarcasm.

[aranthus]

8. Of course sarcasm, but based on a straw man. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

18. No. It is just based on sarcasm

[aranthus]

27. No, it's a straw man.

Who on DU says that the Palestinians are bad, so that they don't deserve a homeland? the straw man is the use of sarcasm to suggest that DUer's (and pro-Israelis in general) actually believe and say anything like what you posted. Falsely attributing to pro-Israelis sorry arguments like you posted is the essence of the straw man argument.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

29. No. It was sarcasm.

[Scootaloo]

51. Wrong place for "Wabbit Season?" 'Cause this subthread begs for it.

[Ken Burch]

66. The argument that Palestinians mustn't be allowed self-determination

UNTIL they have leadership that Israel approves of is pretty much the same thing as saying "Palestinians are bad so...they don't deserve a homeland".

So is the argument that the day-to-day collective repression the Occupation imposes on West Bank Palestinians can't be stopped or even reduced until until every single Palestinian ceases to use violent forms of resistance.

The difference between the last two arguments and the first one is a difference of degrees at best.

If the Israeli government wants Palestinians to change their tactics or their leadership, why don't they try offering something positive, rather than just making endless, sanctimonious demands that the oppressed conform to the wishes of the oppressors? Why doesn't that government at least admit, for the first time, that Palestinians actually HAVE legitimate grievances against Israeli civilian and political leaders, rather than pretend, relentlessly, that it's all the Palestinians fault and that nothing in their perceptions of the situation has ANY grounding in reality?

[oberliner]

2. And a young white American man shall lead them....

It is so terrific that we have people like Josh to explain the connection of Palestinians to the land.

[polly7]

4. Your lame attacks on anyone supporting Palestinians has long ago

gotten waaaaaaay beyond boring.

[oberliner]

65. I support the Palestinians

I have done all that I can to promote Palestinian statehood and support efforts in that direction such as the Geneva Initiative.

What about you?

[King_David]

6. Some ,also explain to Jews

What is.. And what is not .. Antisemitism..

[azurnoir]

7. well of course antisemitism much like Zionism is anything we chose to say it is

whenever we chose to say it, no matter for what reason, even if it appears to be a political points scoring thing or to justify maintaining the growing status quo, because if you think that your antisemitic have I got that right?

[King_David]

9. It seems like the only people who need others to explain

to them what it is and what it's not ..is Jewish people ...

[azurnoir]

11. would that be all Jewish peoiple are you a spokesman? or do you simply speak for yourself?n/t

[King_David]

12. Obviously not all Jewish people

But being in the community and part of the mainstream , having gone to day school , summer camp , JCC , being in the board if major Jewish and Zionist organizations and attendee of the WZO and UJA conferences multiple years ....

I would say I'm a pretty mainstream Jew and quite sure from my very active participation in the community that my views are majority Jewish view.

That's my cred.

What are your "credentials " .

[azurnoir]

13. ah so it is mainstrean for Jewsc according to you to be part of WZO?

World Zionist Organization have I got that right? let's have a look at some recent activity

A document which was brought before Israel's Supreme Court, showed that private Palestinian land was taken and given to Israeli settlers by the World Zionist Organization. The land in question had been ruled off-limits by Israel. The World Zionist Organization had been acting as an agent of the government in assigning land to Jewish settlers in the Israeli-occupied territories. The Israeli government, to avoid responsibilities under international law, used the World Zionist Organization to settle its citizens in the territory occupied in 1967. The document concerns several homes in the Israeli settlement of Ofra, approximately 15 miles north of Jerusalem in the West Bank. The Israeli Justice Ministry confirmed that the land in question was owned by Palestinians and that the nine houses in question had been ordered demolished. Dror Etkes of Yesh Din said "It's an international organization that is, simply put, stealing land."[8]

This page was last modified on 19 December 2012 at 16:35.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Zionist_Organization

and this is mainstream?

[King_David]

14. Never even read it because its irrelevant

I am not going to follow your tangent, we were discussing how other people have to explain to Jewish people what is and what is not antisemitic .

I am a mainstream Jew .. Yes ,and so are the views of most of the Israel supporters in this forum ...no need to list names ... Do you think mainstream Jewish community has a different view?

[azurnoir]

15. why do you avoid WZO you included it in your claim of mainstreamness

so once again are yyou claiming mainstream Jews belong to WZO?

[King_David]

16. Don't know what topic your on ,

We were discussing how other people need explain Jewish people what is and is not antisemitism .

And not some tangent you want to desperately go on . I understand your frustration that I have not been cooperative in this.

[azurnoir]

17. it was your comment and now you back pedal why? n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

34. Why do you think?

Looks like an "oops" moment that no longer works into that groovy "I'm mainstream so I know more than you" jive.

[ocpagu]

60. Why don't you answer the question?

.

[azurnoir]

61. because none were asked of me

simply a series of leading statements made

[King_David]

62. yep , there was nothing misleading there,

Just a tangent of yours that would not be followed,so I gave up.

[azurnoir]

63. whatever once again it was your comment if you do not wish to discuss it that's your perogative

[azurnoir]

10. never mind that the article was based on wait for it

an interview with a real live talking Palestinian and it was those impressions that were recorded but never mind that

[shira]

19. This writer is a participant with the ISM. The same ISM whose founders are BFF....

...with outrageously vile antisemites like Gilad Atzmon. The same ISM founders who also founded FreeGaza, whose board still supports Greta Berlin (who BTW is still there).

Might as well be a StormFronter writing the article.

Why should any mainstream liberal or progressive care what bigots from the ISM write?

[azurnoir]

20. thank you once again

The International Solidarity Movement (ISM) is an organization focused on assisting the Palestinian cause in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict using nonviolent protests. It was founded in 2001 by Ghassan Andoni, a Palestinian activist; Neta Golan, an Israeli activist; Huwaida Arraf, a Palestinian-American; and George N. Rishmawi, a Palestinian activist. Adam Shapiro, an American, joined the movement shortly after its founding and is also often considered one of the founders.

This page was last modified on 25 November 2012 at 06:45.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Solidarity_Movement

[polly7]

22. Thank YOU azurnoir. :) eom.

[shira]

23. I'm sure you do support ISM. Just as you still support FreeGaza...

...despite the fact Greta Berlin is still on the board and that the current "new" board supports her. You apparently also have no problem with each organization's founders (the same people) who endorse Gilad Atzmon's gutter antisemitism.

Now that I recall, the most you had to say about Greta Berlin (even after her facebook group "Our Land" was exposed for its nasty antisemitism by a fellow anti-zionist) was that she was a loud-mouth. That was it.

Thank you, Azurnoir.

[azurnoir]

24. still fast and loose with it huh?

but do continue as for Free Gaza I support their mission as stated on their website nand while your busily condeming FG's board of directors did you forget this one you've seemed big on guilt by association in the past.....

Col. Ann Wright, (US)

Ann is a twenty-nine-year veteran of the U.S. Army and U.S. Army Reserves who retired as a colonel. She served sixteen years in the U.S. Diplomatic Corps in U.S. Embassies in Nicaragua, Grenada, Somalia, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Sierra Leone, Micronesia, Afghanistan, and Mongolia. She was deputy ambassador in the last four embassies where she served.

http://www.freegaza.org/en/about-us/who-we-are/721-staff

anyone Googleing FreeGaza will be greeted by this message under their website

Viagra for sale. Online Pharmacy Shop: 100% quality, low prices, 24/7 support, fast delivery! Fast order delivery 1-3 days! Full Certified. Canadian ...

wonder how that got there lol

but here is freegaza's mission statement

Since August 2008, the Free Gaza Movement has sailed from Cyprus to the Gaza Strip on several successful voyages, bringing in international witnesses to see first hand the devastating effects of Israeli violence against the Palestinian people. Ours are the first international boats to journey to Gaza since 1967.

We are Italian, Irish, Canadian, Greek, Tunisian, German, Australian, American, English, Scottish, Danish, Israeli, and Palestinian. We are of all ages and backgrounds. We have years of experience volunteering in Gaza and the West Bank at the invitation of Palestinians. But now, because of the increasing stranglehold of Israel's illegal occupation of Palestine, many of us find it almost impossible to enter Gaza, and an increasing number have been refused entry to Israel and the West Bank as well.

We want to break the siege of Gaza. We want to raise international awareness about the prison-like closure of the Gaza Strip and pressure the international community to review its sanctions policy and end its support for continued Israeli occupation. We want to uphold Palestine's right to welcome internationals as visitors, human rights observers, humanitarian aid workers, journalists, or otherwise.

We have not and will not ask for Israel’s permission. It is our intent to overcome this brutal siege through civil resistance and non-violent direct action, and establish a permanent sea lane between Gaza and the rest of the world.

Points of Unity

All participants in the Free Gaza Movement accept the following principles and practices:

We respect the human rights of everyone, regardless of race, gender, tribe, religion, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation, citizenship or language.
The lawful inhabitants of all territories occupied by Israel since June 5, 1967, including refugees unable to return to their lawful homes in Palestine, must have unimpeded access to international waters and air space, in conformity with all UN resolutions and international law.
The lawful inhabitants of all territories occupied by Israel since June 5, 1967 should be free of occupation and have the right to control all entry and exit to and from those territories without Israeli interference.
As a first step towards a just and lasting peace, Israel must withdraw its military presence from all territories occupied since June 5, 1967 and revoke all legislation, regulations, directives and practices that apply differently to different populations living in those territories.\
Israel must demolish all barriers built to restrict passage in all territories occupied by Israel since June 5, 1967.
Israel must recognize the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality.
We agree to adhere to the principles of nonviolence and nonviolent resistance in word and deed at all times.
We stand in solidarity with the Palestinian people, but support no particular political party or organization, without exception.
We recognize the right of all Palestinian refugees and exiles and their heirs to return without delay to their homes in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, to recover their properties, and to receive compensation for damage, dispossession and unlawful use of such property, in accordance with international law. This is in the first instance an individual and not a collective right, and cannot be negotiated except by the individual.

http://www.freegaza.org/en/about-us/mission

anything else?

[shira]

25. You still support the ISM & FreeGaza. Am I wrong?

Ann Wright still supports Greta Berlin. It's why she was banned from participating in a recent flotilla attempt.

If only it was just one tweet....
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/10/if-only-it-was-just-one-tweet-one-activists-experience-in-the-our-land-facebook-group.html

[azurnoir]

26. as I previously stated yes I support their mission

and in your embrace of guilt by association you will label me antisemitic because if one supports FreeGaza's mission it means one supports Greta Berlin too except that is false for any reasoning person

[shira]

28. Only their mission? Not those organizations now? Hmmm....

I've never seen you criticize or condemn those movements, so you'll have to excuse me for believing you support both their mission and the people involved.

[azurnoir]

30. well I'm not much into name calling or agreeing with name calling

or useing the rightwing tactic of making false accusations to keep the opponent in defense mode as a means of point scoring it was popularized during the Bush years, we saw it done quite frequently upstairs

eta apparently you realized you could not condemn my supporting FG's mission so you resort to rightist character assignation, where oh where has that happened before?
But believe what ever you need to, which seems to be that I support Greta Berlin rather than the people nof Gaza living decent lives

[Violet_Crumble]

38. I support the ISM. What are you going to do about it?

Yell at me? Alert on my post?

[King_David]

39. I stopped supporting the ISM after they assisted with the bombing of Mikes Place

A nice Canadian bar on the tayelet.

Fuck Them...


http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Communiques/2003/Details+of+April+30-+2003+Tel+Aviv+suicide+bombing.htm

[Violet_Crumble]

40. That's not true at all...

The ISM did not assist with any bombing, and the thing you linked to didn't even claim they did. They're a non-violent movement, despite what the anti-Palestinian extremists would like people to believe...

Oh, and why would you have ever supported the ISM? That makes about as much sense as if I claimed I used to send pizzas to the IDF...

I feel the same way about the IDF as you do about the ISM. And have far more reason to do so, as the IDF actually has killed many Palestinians, while the ISM not only hasn't killed anyone, but doesn't assist with any violence either...

[King_David]

41. Great cause..

http://pizzaidf.org/

I urge you all.. Hungry boys and girls .

[Violet_Crumble]

42. Thanks, but I'll stick to supporting those who don't kill other people...

Which is why I support the ISM

[King_David]

43. No problem with me..

We still friends me and you.. We just disagree ..

[Violet_Crumble]

44. Cool...

Have a nice holiday break, btw...

[King_David]

45. Thanks I'm in Miami 27C today :-)

You must enjoy your time off too , I'm sure you got the same beach weather there too .

[Violet_Crumble]

48. It's going to be 34 here on xmas day...

I'm heading to Sydney tomorrow so hopefully I'll get to spend a chunk of my weekend on the beach

[shira]

46. Vi, I'm not surprised you support the ISM.

You told me that years ago.

I'll assume you didn't know that the ISM and FreeGaza's founders are the same people. Same people who Abunimah called out as bigots. Same people Bekka Wolf called out for hosting a vulgar Facebook group called "Our Land". Same people who are BFF with sick fucks like Gilad Atzmon.

It's nothing to be proud of.

[Violet_Crumble]

47. I'm quite happy to support the ISM....

Whoever those 'same people' are, they've got zero to do with my support of an organisation that reflects my stance on the conflict. And Guilt By Six Degrees of Association isn't a game I'm particularly fond of...

[shira]

49. Okay. Do you currently support FreeGaza as well? n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

50. Can't say I think much of them one way or the other n/t

[oberliner]

52. Wow - please let's save this post for posterity

"Happy to support the ISM"

[shira]

64. Apparently, if some questionable organization claims it fights for justice....

...freedom, and all that is perfect and good, then it must be good.

Here's the pro-peace group, STANDWITHUS.

StandWithUs is an international, non-profit organization. Founded in 2001, StandWithUs is dedicated to informing the public about Israel and to combating the extremism and anti-Semitism that often distorts the issues. We work by supporting people around the world who want to stand up for Israel and educate their own local campuses and communities. We believe that knowledge of the facts will correct common prejudices about the Arab-Israeli conflict, and will promote discussions and policies that can help promote peace in the Middle East. Through print materials, speakers, programs, conferences, missions to Israel, campaigns, focus on social media and internet resources, we ensure that the story of Israel's achievements and ongoing challenges is told on campuses and in communities, the media, libraries, and churches around the world. Based in Los Angeles, StandWithUs has fifteen offices across the U.S., and in Israel, Paris and the UK.

http://www.standwithus.com/Mission/

If the ISM can be happily supported due to its mission statement, then so can STANDWITHUS.

[aranthus]

31. Including the nonnegotiable right of return? n/t

[azurnoir]

32. yes to a Palestinian state consisting of the West Bank and Gaza

with those that actually lived in what is now Israel being allowed to return there

[sabbat hunter]

33. if all of those that

left what is now israel (be it by force, at the behest of the fellow Arabs during the war of independence or on their own, all three of which happened) came back, plus all their descendents, it would end Israel.

Also why should the old city of Jerusalem belong to a future Palestine?

[azurnoir]

35. well if that was what I said you might have a point but alas

it was not I said nothing about descendents, and yes I know that is in the mission statement however in that detail I disagree, in the future there could be inheritance problems if Israel allowed the returnees to own property but other than that seeing as how the minimum age for refugees is 64 years of age and the average life expectancy of a Palestinians is around 70 there are not all too many left to be a 'problem'

as to East Jerusalem no one country should have rule over it and yes I know that was tried before didn't one of Israels future PM's kill it dead in its tracks (see the assassination of Folke Bernadotte)?

[sabbat hunter]

36. There is no reason

That the status quo over the old city cannot be maintained. Israeli political control, but the various religions control the various holy sites.

Under Rabin they were going to give part of east jerusalem (but not the old city IIRC) to the Palestinians, which I would not have an issue with.

Additionally you know as well as I that most of the homes that the Palestinians left, are not there any longer or are used as someone else's house.

What I think should be done is monetary compensation for those that fled Israel under military threat of the Israeli military. (including the paramilitary/terror groups of Irgun)

But at the same time any Jews who were forced out of Arab/Islamic countries since 1948 should receive monetary compensation as well from those countries.

[delrem]

37. That doesn't say much for the righteousness of Israel. nt

[sabbat hunter]

53. can you explain

what you mean please?

[delrem]

54. No

If you didn't understand immediately, while you were writing your statement, then there's no way to explain.

You describe a country that depends essentially for its existence on, first, ethnically cleansing an indigenous population so one sect has assured demographic superiority, then second, maintaining that demographic superiority through continued subjugation of the minority; and if you don't understand why this isn't honorable, why it isn't "righteous", then it isn't because you don't understand the elementary concepts of universal human rights that underlie universal international law, it's because you reject them.

In fact after my discussions on this forum I've concluded that this is the case for the majority (not all) of Israel's supporters who post here -- and that for this reason discussion is impossible. So this is my last statement on this forum:

may God help the Palestinians because they are up against the wall.

[King_David]

55. So you are going to 'pick up your marbles and leave' ?

'pick up your marbles (and go home/leave) (American)

to suddenly leave an activity you have been involved in with other people, because you do not like what is happening If you don't like the way we do things around here, well, you can pick up your marbles and leave. '

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/marble

[aranthus]

56. Where do you get this BS?

You describe a country that depends essentially for its existence on, first, ethnically cleansing an indigenous population so one sect has assured demographic superiority

[font color=blue]Not true at all, as even a quick review of the demographics would show. Assume that the Palestinians, instead of starting the war that made them refugees, had accepted the Partition Resolution. So no war and no refugees. Israel starts with a population of about 550,000 Jews and 450,000 Arabs. The natural growth of both populations is about the same (It's the non-Israeli Palestinian population that has had the much higher growth rate). Then add the immigration of Jews from Europe and the Arab world (which wouldn't have changed). The result? Today Israel would be 70 to 75% Jewish instead of 80%. so even if you believe the BS claim of ethninc cleansing, it wouldn't have mattered. And where do you ge the idea that Jewishness is just a "sect"? That's rude.[/font]

maintaining that demographic superiority through continued subjugation of the minority

[font color=blue]And you just keep piling it higher and deeper. The Arab minority of Israel is not "subjugated". The Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza are subject to the fact that they have been making war on Israel for sixty some years. I have no idea where you get your information from, but it just isn't true.[/font]

[delrem]

57. You aren't functionally literate, are you?

Someone who was functionally literate would look for a first clue in the text that I was responding to.
Someone who was functionally literate would find followup clues in the large body of literature referencing both "Israel" and "demographic threat", e.g.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/netanyahu-israel-s-arabs-are-the-real-demographic-threat-1.109045
No honest response would deny the matter as being "BS".

This is a waste of my time. I did learn something of the wall of hasbara that drowns out the Palestinian voice, and of the impossibility of a "negotiated solution" in face of such a depth of bad faith.

[aranthus]

58. That's your "evidence"?

And yes, I read the entire thread. But the truth is that geographically, the Israel of today isn't the Israel that would have been had the Arabs chosen compromise instead of war. Most of the current "refugees" are from the areas alotted to the Arab state by the Partition resolution. So if we were going to try to rewind the clock back to a pre-war status, most of the refugees wouldn't go to Israel, but to an Arab state. Israel would stay 75-80% Jewish. But you're right. If you can't disagree without unwarranted insults, then there's no point in talking further.

[polly7]

21. See Post #4. eom.